Believers’ faith must endure until the end of their lives!

His student said:

That's all the time I have to give to this thread.
You guys go ahead

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BCsenior said:

Exactly the same as 1 Corinthians 6 and Galatians 5!
Habitual sinners have NO entrance into the Kingdom.

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His student said:

Here are examples of bad logic:

“The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.” Revelation 3:5

“to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life” Romans 2:7



“He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” Colossians 1:22-23

BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t continue in the faith God will take our salvation away.

“It is this Good News that saves you, IF you continue to believe the message I told you” 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

BCsenior says that this says that those who don’t continue to believe we lose their salvation.

“IF we endure, we shall also reign with Him.” 2 Timothy 2:12

BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t endure we will lose our salvation.

“… follow the example of those who are going to inherit God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.” Hebrews 6:11-12

BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t follow their example we will lose our salvation.

“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.” James 1:12

BCsenior says that this says that those who don’t patiently endure will lose their salvation.

“Those who love Me will obey My commandments.” Mathew 10:22

BCsenior says that this says that we fail to keep His commandments we will lose our salvation.

“But the one who endures to the end will be saved.” Matthew 10:22

BCsenior says that if we don’t endure we will not be saved.

“But IF you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of” Revelation 2:10

BCsenior says that this says this if we don’t remain faithful when facing death we lose our salvation.


Here is a perfectly logical statement: “These verses can be seen to cast some doubt on the eternal security of believers to those who are weak in systematic theology.”

What’s a good theologian to do? Compare scripture with scripture and bring straight forward and unambiguous scriptures to bear on the problem at hand concerning those ambiguous scriptures.

A few examples of unambiguous scriptures follow:

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

“John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

1 John 3:2: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.”

Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”

Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”


2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

Many more could be cited for security and often are.

Several scriptures can be seen to cast doubt on eternal security – not the least of which are the ones in Hebrews. But all can be seen in other ways as well.

Most of the many scriptures used to teach eternal security can only be taken one way – that those who have believed can never go to Hell.

One of the principles of good systematic theology is that we are to come down on the preponderance of the scripture evidence when forming doctrines.

There is good reason why most thorough systematic theologies concerning soteriology come down on the side of eternal security for those who have truly been born again.

In this case - the only reason people come down on the side of the weaker of the two groups of scripture evidence is either because they are weak theologians or because they have an agenda to teach a works oriented gospel – which is no gospel at all according to God.

That's all the time I have to give to this thread.
You guys go ahead.

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His student said:

Many will tell you that teaching eternal security will lead people to sin more "that grace may increase". Nothing new there.

But I can tell you that for many people it is just the opposite. Teaching that one must live up to a certain standard or they will lose their salvation leads them to sin.

I believed on the Lord as a very young man and I was taught much like many of you are teaching here.

It seemed that I was supposedly lost time and time again when I lapsed into sin and I would have to get saved all over again. After a couple of years of anguish of soul - I consciously left the faith thinking that I simply couldn't live my life that way - at least in my youth with all the temptations which come to young men at that time in their lives.

I spiraled into a life of sin and debauchery (you name it - I probably did it). I became a very vocal opponent of Christianity and hurt a great many believers. All the repentance in the world cannot undo the harm I caused in my bitterness.

The Lord graciously brought me back to the faith in time and I vowed to find out the truth about how one is saved and how they "stay" saved.

I found that it was no contest when it came to eternal security vs. the way it is being preached here in this thread.

That belief in my security has resulted in my staying with the faith - never to leave again - out of gratitude for the grace God gives to those He calls His children rather than to earn or deserve salvation..

I sincerely hope that no one will stumble as I did and lose 15 productive years as a disciple of the the Lord because of the agenda of those who would preach another gospel other than that of grace.

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dad said:

Not sure what it is you think He says to do to be saved? The OP suggested some life long works trip to keep us saved or some such.

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Kenny'sID said:

They teach the easy way. IOW they cater to the people, and what they want, not to God, and what he wants (this thread is a testament to that) because it makes them more popular, while those who teach the truth become more unpopular, at least to some.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

— 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV)

ESV:

3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sounda]">[a] teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

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BCsenior said:

I'm sorry, friend, but this is a pile of nonsense!
You are fighting against dozens of NT verses,
which you evidently hate.
Again, I entreat you to RECONCILE the 2 groups.

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BCsenior said:

Spoken by one who REFUSES to explain the dozens
of NT verses which oppose the "grace-only" heresy.

I wonder if he has ever even considered
RECONCILING the 2 supposed opposing groups.

There really are NO opposing groups of verses!
People just don't understand what the NT terms
"believe" and "faith" really mean.

IMO, the precious Holy Spirit must reveal what
these NT words (and their corresponding verses)
really mean!

Again, I am wondering why no one ever comments
on my signature below >>>

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1stcenturylady said:

Willful sin is a sin you do on purpose when you KNOW better. It is a sin unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. It is rebellion against God.

There is also a sin that is not unto death called trespasses that you don't know you are committing and is not willful, nor intentional. Leviticus 5:15. These all of us still commit, and the Spirit will eventually teach us all truth.

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dad said:

The post I addressed talked about being freed from sin. I pointed out that the old man is something we fight all our lives and we won't be perfect in this life.

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BCsenior said:

Great passage, Kenny ... Thanks, brother!

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Kenny'sID said:

And I essentially said, no one said we would be perfect. Did BBS make that claim? I'm doubting he did.

I'll probably use this a lot but once again:

A parent has a child that sincerely tries to do good, and messes up on occasion, but as long as the child apologizes, repents, and continues to try, he is still considered good in the eyes of the parent, just as he is with God. Just that simple.

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Kenny'sID said:

Of course BCS said that, it's a fact. Jesus said there to be good and that's what we have to do "to bee saved", so it's 100% fact if we don't or stop doing good, we don't go to heaven. What were you planning to do, live half a life for Christ, then fall away and still get to heaven

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Are you saying we can't lose salvation?

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This makes it perfecly clear that we can:

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

The "brothers and sisters" meaning the saved.

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The "bring that person back" bring them back from what? Loss of salvation of course. But as clear as that is, you simply won't see it if you are too far gone.

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