Here are examples of bad logic:
“The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.” Revelation 3:5
Also, names can be blotted out of the book of life.
“to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life” Romans 2:7
He said we had to do good or go to hell
“He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —
IF indeed you continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel”
Colossians 1:22-23
BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t continue in the faith God will take our salvation away.
“It is this Good News that saves you,
IF you continue to believe the message I told you”
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
BCsenior says that this says that those who don’t continue to believe we lose their salvation.
“
IF we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”
2 Timothy 2:12
BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t endure we will lose our salvation.
“… follow the example of those who are going to inherit God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.”
Hebrews 6:11-12
BCsenior says that this says that if we don’t follow their example we will lose our salvation.
“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
James 1:12
BCsenior says that this says that those who don’t patiently endure will lose their salvation.
“Those who love Me will obey My commandments.” Mathew 10:22
BCsenior says that this says that we fail to keep His commandments we will lose our salvation.
“But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
Matthew 10:22
BCsenior says that if we don’t endure we will not be saved.
“But IF you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of”
Revelation 2:10
BCsenior says that this says this if we don’t remain faithful when facing death we lose our salvation.
Here is a perfectly logical statement: “These verses can be seen to cast some doubt on the eternal security of believers to those who are weak in systematic theology.”
What’s a good theologian to do? Compare scripture with scripture and bring straight forward and unambiguous scriptures to bear on the problem at hand concerning those ambiguous scriptures.
A few examples of unambiguous scriptures follow:
2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that H
e is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is
able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
“John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
1 John 3:2: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.”
Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”
Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”
1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”
Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”
Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”
Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”
Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”
Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.
Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”
Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”
Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”
Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.
Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."
2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”
1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."
Many more could be cited for security and often are.
Several scriptures can be seen to cast doubt on eternal security – not the least of which are the ones in Hebrews. But all can be seen in other ways as well.
Most of the many scriptures used to teach eternal security can only be taken one way – that those who have believed can never go to Hell.
One of the principles of good systematic theology is that we are to come down on the preponderance of the scripture evidence when forming doctrines.
There is good reason why most thorough systematic theologies concerning soteriology come down on the side of eternal security for those who have truly been born again.
In this case - the only reason people come down on the side of the weaker of the two groups of scripture evidence is either because they are weak theologians or because they have an agenda to teach a works oriented gospel – which is no gospel at all according to God.
That's all the time I have to give to this thread.
You guys go ahead.
