What commandments is Jesus talking about?

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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Paul said the Old Covenant is "the ministry of death", "engraved on stones", not me.
Okay. And King David said:


Psalm 1:2 ~ But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on His law he meditates day and night.

Psalm 19:7 ~ The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is trustworthy, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:48 ~ I lift up my hands to Your commandments, which I love, and I meditate on Your statutes.

1 Chronicles 28:9 ~ “And Solomon, my son, learn to know the God of your ancestors intimately. Worship and serve him with your whole heart and a willing mind. For the Lord sees every heart and knows every plan and thought. If you seek him, you will find him."

From David's prayer recorded in 1 Chronicles 29:10~20:
“O Lord, the God of our ancestor Israel, may you be praised forever and ever! 11 Yours, O Lord, is the greatness, the power, the glory, the victory, and the majesty. Everything in the heavens and on earth is yours, O Lord, and this is your kingdom.
We adore you as the one who is over all things. 12 Wealth and honor come from you alone, for you rule over everything. Power and might are in your hand, and at your discretion people are made great and given strength.

13 “O our God, we thank you and praise your glorious name! 14 But who am I, and who are my people, that we could give anything to you? Everything we have has come from you, and we give you only what you first gave us! 15 We are here for only a moment, visitors and strangers in the land as our ancestors were before us. Our days on earth are like a passing shadow, gone so soon without a trace.

16 “O Lord our God, even this material we have gathered to build a Temple to honor your holy name comes from you! It all belongs to you! 17 I know, my God, that you examine our hearts and rejoice when you find integrity there. You know I have done all this with good motives, and I have watched your people offer their gifts willingly and joyously.

18 “O Lord, the God of our ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, make your people always want to obey you. See to it that their love for you never changes. 19 Give my son Solomon the wholehearted desire to obey all your commands, laws, and decrees, and to do everything necessary to build this Temple, for which I have made these preparations.”

20 Then David said to the whole assembly, “Give praise to the Lord your God!” And the entire assembly praised the Lord, the God of their ancestors, and they bowed low and knelt before the Lord and the king.


Quoting from Solomon's prayer at the Temple dedication:
1 Kings 8 ~ “Praise be to the Lord, who has given rest to his people Israel just as he promised. Not one word has failed of all the good promises he gave through his servant Moses. May the Lord our God be with us as he was with our ancestors; may he never leave us nor forsake us. May he turn our hearts to him, to walk in obedience to him and keep the commands, decrees and laws he gave our ancestors. And may these words of mine, which I have prayed before the Lord, be near to the Lord our God day and night, that he may uphold the cause of his servant and the cause of his people Israel according to each day’s need, so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. And may your hearts be fully committed to the Lord our God, to live by his decrees and obey his commands, as at this time.”

So what now?

Since David and Solomon only knew the Old Covenant - are we to trash their advice and wisdom? Does it not apply any longer? Why did Paul say the OC was "the ministry of death" and King David said the law of the LORD is perfect and brings joy and revives the soul? Why the contradiction? Are they talking about different laws? Was David a sadist? Do you have any other hypothesis? What specifically are you attributing to the Old Covenant? What goes - what remains? Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law of Moses or the writings of the prophets (in Matthew 5:17). So - what do we do with all of this?

 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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For rule followers (carnal people), yes. It is even more impossible to follow the (carnal) rules. The Christian is lead by the Spirit - Gal 5:18. Religious people and religious Christians try to follow carnal rules and fail. This makes them very manipulable by religious leaders who control them with condemnation.

So you are sinless then? What law do you break when you sin?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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So is sorcery, afflicting orphans, taking bribes, e.t.c. Do you teach people to disobey those laws?

That blade has a double edge, if you accuse someone of not teaching a law, then you will also fail yourself in not teaching the whole law.

Israel had a national Sabbath law and the Gentile nations did not have that law. Gentiles could never obey the Sabbath day because they did not get Saturday off to have a rest.

People need to read Exodus and Leviticus carefully to understand that Israel had a national law system. The entire nation was under the law and personal choice did not enter into it. Break the Sabbath and die, steal and die, getting caught in adultery was a death sentence. The law was absolute bondage, slavery, one mistake and your life is finished.

And that changes what...murder is against the law.
 
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BABerean2

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So what now?

Since David and Solomon only knew the Old Covenant - are we to trash their advice and wisdom? Does it not apply any longer? Why did Paul say the OC was "the ministry of death" and King David said the law of the LORD is perfect and brings joy and revives the soul? Why the contradiction? Are they talking about different laws? Was David a sadist? Do you have any other hypothesis? What specifically are you attributing to the Old Covenant? What goes - what remains? Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law of Moses or the writings of the prophets (in Matthew 5:17). So - what do we do with all of this?

Do you ride a horse to church, or is that mode of transportation now "obsolete"?
If a horse was all you had, it would be the best thing available.

How did the Old Covenant work for King David?
He committed adultery with another man's wife, and conspired to have that man killed.
David should have been stoned under the Sinai Covenant.
It would have been the ministry of death for him, if he had not been king.
David lost a child because of his sin.


How did the Sinai Covenant work for Solomon in his old age, when he allowed his many wives to influence him to help break the first commandment in his kingdom?

You are attempting to ignore what Paul said about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29.
Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

That same word "until" is found in Matthew 5:17-18.

What happens to the contract to build a new house once that house is completed?
That contract becomes "obsolete".

Christ has built us a new house out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.

Why are you ignoring the fact that you have never kept the Sinai Sabbath?
Are you intentionally breaking the 4th commandment every week?
Do you think Paul was confused in Colossians 2:16-17?

What do we do with the Old Covenant?
Accept what is found below as the truth.

Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision in this verse, because it was something that they did bear.)

Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—


Why do you quote Matthew 5:17, but ignore Christ contrasting the Law of Moses to the New Covenant in Matthew 5:21-48, with the words "But I say..."?

.




 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The New Covenant isn't the Old Covenant. Heb 8:6, 9:15, 10:9, LK 22:20

You have claimed previously that Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism or the OT. So tell me, what would you have if there was no Judaism or OT??? You would have no NT or NC...
 
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ace of hearts

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So you are sinless then? What law do you break when you sin?
You need to read Rom 8. Since sin was before the law, what rule did they break? Rom 5:13. No I'm not justifying sin. I'm led by the Holy Spirit, Who doesn't lead me to sin or the law.
 
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ace of hearts

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Do you ride a horse to church, or is that mode of transportation now "obsolete"?
If a horse was all you had, it would be the best thing available.

How did the Old Covenant work for King David?
He committed adultery with another man's wife, and conspired to have that man killed.
David should have been stoned under the Sinai Covenant.
It would have been the ministry of death for him, if he had not been king.
David lost a child because of his sin.


How did the Sinai Covenant work for Solomon in his old age, when he allowed his many wives to influence him to help break the first commandment in his kingdom?

You are attempting to ignore what Paul said about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29.
Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

That same word "until" is found in Matthew 5:17-18.

What happens to the contract to build a new house once that house is completed?
That contract becomes "obsolete".

Christ has built us a new house out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.

Why are you ignoring the fact that you have never kept the Sinai Sabbath?
Are you intentionally breaking the 4th commandment every week?
Do you think Paul was confused in Colossians 2:16-17?

What do we do with the Old Covenant?
Accept what is found below as the truth.

Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision in this verse, because it was something that they did bear.)

Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—


Why do you quote Matthew 5:17, but ignore Christ contrasting the Law of Moses to the New Covenant in Matthew 5:21-48, with the words "But I say..."?
We think alike.
 
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ace of hearts

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You have claimed previously that Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism or the OT. So tell me, what would you have if there was no Judaism or OT??? You would have no NT or NC...
No it would simply be called the covenant. IOW there would still be a covenant.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You need to read Rom 8. Since sin was before the law, what rule did they break? Rom 5:13. No I'm not justifying sin. I'm led by the Holy Spirit, Who doesn't lead me to sin or the law.

We are talking about NOW. So are you sinless? I never said the Spirit leads you to sin.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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And so it is. Why was Cain chastised for murder? The law didn't exist at that time.

Didn't it? So if it didn't exist (again you must think it magically appeared at Sinai), then Cain would not have been chastised...
 
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ace of hearts

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Absolutely not! Why would I spend time here, if I expected to only be agreed with? This is probably the LAST place to achieve that.

What I would appreciate is for you to clearly state your arguments and then attempt to support them. That's all.
I'm sorry you don't understand my position.

The base of my position when it come to the law and salvation is Jer 31:31-33. Define key words and the self defining verse 32.

My position is is backed with many passages like LK16:16, 22:20, 24:44; JN 1:17, 3, 5:24, 10:9, 16, 14:6, 15:10; Acts 15, Rom 7:6, 8, 10:4; Gal 3-5, 2 Cor 3:6-7; Heb 7:12, 8:6-13, 10:9; 1 JN 3:23.

Which ones do you need help with? What do they mean to you?

These passages are just the ones that come immediately to mind. I'm sure others will come to mind as soon as I hit the post button
 
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Dkh587

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We are talking about NOW. So are you sinless? I never said the Spirit leads you to sin.
the Holy Spirit will never lead anybody into disobedience, so I question whatever “spirit” anybody is listening to that tells them to disobey God.
 
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ace of hearts

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the Holy Spirit will never lead anybody into disobedience, so I question whatever “spirit” anybody is listening to that tells them to disobey God.
Aren't you really asking why we're not lead to the law?
 
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