No, you've never shared any verse that says:
"Maybe works is the wrong word....
However, I DO believe that it's necessary to do these good works to stay saved..."
Not a verse in the Bible that tells how to "stay saved", and you know it.
I'm not like a friend of ours that could go on with you forever. I don't have such stamina and give up after a while.
Just how difficult is it to cite whatever verse you thinks says how to stay saved? But you don't even do that.
I'd be happy to go thru it again,,,but what good would it do?
It would provide an opportunity to show again that it doesn't say anything about how to stay saved.
You stick to a few verses, but the bible is a whole and complete book. We need to take it all in and understand God the best we can with what He gave us.
This comment appears to accept the notion that there are verses that contradict other verses, so your idea is to count up those on each side, and the majority rules.
Nonsense. There are NOT ANY verses that contradict any others.
And since the "few verses" I keep sharing are SO CLEAR about eternal security, there is just NO WAY any other verse can say the opposite.
Let's do this: I'll tell you how I understand some concepts and let's see if we could agree on something....
Do you agree with the following definitions? (mine).
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
OSAS:
Once Saved Always Saved teaches that once a person "accepts" Jesus, whatever that may mean to him... he believe to be saved forever....NO MATTER what he does in his life, or what type of life he lives.
IOW, he could murder and still be saved...he could not ask forgiveness of sins, and still be saved (as a habit not forgetfulness).
This is an extreme view and is not supported by the N.T. teachings of Jesus, Paul, and the other writers.
Actually, it is your own opinion that is not supported by the NT.
All you're showing is that in SPITE of what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life, you have a real dim view of those believers who are rebellious. Your answer is "kill them, they're not worth it".
However, grace doesn't work like that. In fact, your view is totally GRACELESS.
ETERNAL SECURITY:
Eternal Security is a biblical theory; however, there are conditions involved and some refuse to accept those conditions and thus get it mixed up with OSAS.
Actually, "eternal security" and "OSAS" are identical terms. They mean the same thing. Whether you understand that or not.
There is only 1 condition for possessing eternal life. That is believing in Christ.
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
So don't tell me about how "few" verses I share. I've given this list many times.
The N.T. speaks about eternal security. We can be eternally secure in Jesus IF we ABIDE in Him, and CONTINUE to abide in HIM, and IF we follow His teachings which is why He came to us...to teach us how to get to heaven.
And I keep asking; where are the verses that actually say we are secure by ANYTHING we keep doing? You have NOT shared any.
This is why the N.T. is full of conditional words such as: IF, CONTINUE, ABIDE, DWELL, BELIEVE in the present tense, do not FALL AWAY, PERSEVERE,,,,etc.
Such words are always linked to things like blessings, eternal rewards, avoiding God's PAINFUL discipline.
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS:
Perseverance of the saints is a calvinistic theology and is a bit more complicated.
This teaches that God will keep his elected secure and they cannot leave their faith.
This is also in error. Jesus Himself noted the 2nd soil believed for a while and because of testing/temptation, fell away from their faith.
And Paul noted apostasy in 1 Tim 4:1. So the Calvinists are wrong.
Further proof of this error is that twice in Acts believers are encouraged to "remain true to the faith" and to "remain true to the Lord". 11:23 and 14:22.
How can it NOT occur to you that if "God keeps the elect secure and they cannot leave the faith", then such encouragement is not only unnecessary, but silly to do.
[QUOTEThis is because God has elected them to be saved and so He will keep them saved.[/QUOTE]
The truth is that keeps all believers saved. That is eternal security. However, election is not to salvation, but to service. I have a whole file of verses that make that very clear.
However, John Calvin did teach that in order to be sure that one is saved he must have the love and willingness to do works.
Well, he was quite wrong. Jesus said those who believe ARE secure, by His words, "and they shall never perish". Now, that's security.
Also, it's difficult for a calvinist to be sure of their salvation because, after all, how could one know for SURE that God chose them? What if they stop doing good works?
Yes, that's just one of their problems.
This means that only at the END of their life, can they truly know if they were really saved.
To which I totally disagree.
Some that believe in OSAS also believe that is one falls away it means they were never saved to begin with....this idea, instead, comes from Pers. of the Saints...and so all 3 get confused with each other.
Because all three doctrines are confused and quite unbiblical.