Do those believing in “grace only” fear the Lord?

[grasping the after wind]

Don't you believe that God gave you
the free will to do as you choose?

God allows me to take decisions that are within my God given ability to take. That is not the same as giving me unencumbered free will that allows me to do as I choose. He certainly did not give me the ability to force Him to do as I choose.

 

[grasping the after wind]

It teaches that the more we do the more grace we receive. The way you say it makes it sound like calvinism. Without grace we can do nothing....but we have to WANT that grace, by doing good works so as to merit even more.

ccc 2009/2010

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life." The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."


2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

Grace is not a commodity. It doesn't come in increments that can be purchased by working hard.

 

[BCsenior]

Grace is not a commodity. It doesn't come in increments.

Yes, it does ... many NT verses are meant to show us
that God's grace is variable ... would you believe
from 0% to 100% (0% is when one "falls from grace).
Where is your grace right now?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, it does ... many NT verses are meant to show us
that God's grace is variable ... would you believe
from 0% to 100% (0% is when one "falls from grace).
Where is your grace right now?

I would appreciate it if you did not attack upon a personal basis. If you disagree with my arguments then argue against them rather than personally attacking me by insult or innuendo. Otherwise I will have to resort to reporting your post for flaming. Which I do not wish to do. Now if you wish to actually present the NT verses you claim show us that God's grace is a commodity to be purchased in increments go ahead and do so.

 

[BCsenior]

... if you wish to actually present the NT verses you claim show us that God's grace is a commodity to be purchased in increments go ahead and do so.

Grace is not a commodity to be purchased,
but Paul does pray on several occasions
for God to give believers "more and more" grace
(for example), which is more than they already have.

 

[BCsenior]

I left something out in post #20.

It all begins with God's free gift of His incredible grace.
Then, it's all about the free-will choices we make.
We have been chosen and called unto holiness.
The time is short to get right with God's plan.
Salvation is a process and it is conditional.
There are a lot of "IF" verses in the NT.
And many warnings without any IFs.

 

[redleghunter]

It all begins with God's free gift of His incredible grace.
Then, it's all about the free-will choices we make.

You mean we make choices based on our new nature?

 

[BCsenior]

You mean we make choices based on our new nature?

Man makes free-will choices regardless of
what nature he has at the time.
The old man made choices.
The new man makes choices ... and they had better be
with regard to the fear of the Lord.
Hey, we're back to square one.

 

[redleghunter]

Man makes free-will choices regardless of
what nature he has at the time.
The old man made choices.
The new man makes choices ... and they had better be
with regard to the fear of the Lord.
Hey, we're back to square one.

So what changes in us when we are born again?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Grace is not a commodity. It doesn't come in increments that can be purchased by working hard.

I agree.
But the CC has it's beliefs, just like your church does.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Man makes free-will choices regardless of
what nature he has at the time.
The old man made choices.
The new man makes choices ... and they had better be
with regard to the fear of the Lord.
Hey, we're back to square one.

The fear of the Lord is only the beginning of wisdom. If we act from the fear of punishment , we are merely acting out of self defense and self love. To be mature in our faith, we no longer should be acting out of fear we should move past the beginning of wisdom to a state of more advanced wisdom and act out of love. If one acts out of love, the choices one takes will be for the benefit of others not for the benefit of oneself. Acting to avoid something unpleasant for oneself is acting for the benefit of oneself and not the benefit of others. When one acts in one's own benefit, no matter the consequences that might be coincidentally beneficial to others, then one already has one's reward and ought not look to receive additional grace from God. When one acts for the benefit of others out of Christian love, one would not be considering the idea of additional grace from God as a motivating factor. Doing good because I expect something in return is simply selfish. I do not believe that I ought to expect God to reward me for being selfish. To be forgiven for my selfishness is the most I can hope for.

 

[BCsenior]

So what changes in us when we are born again?

I have no problem answering your many questions.

IMO, being born-again does not automatically cause
a big-time change in us, in our lives, etc.
Even though the new BAC now has the Holy Spirit
and is, in fact, a new creation ... he still has the
God-given free will to do WHATEVER he chooses!
yes, against what the Holy Spirit is trying to do for us!
This is what all of the warnings are all about ...
CHOOSE to be led of the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, etc.
CHOOSE to not be a slave of sin, etc.

Romans 6 ... that's why Paul keeps warning those Roman BACS to CHOOSE whether they will continue being slaves of sin ...or... slaves of obedience
(which will lead to righteousness). Then, if they CHOOSE to be slaves of righteousness, it is unto holiness (v 19).
And the fruit of holiness will be everlasting life (v 22).
[Some years back, people on Christian forums
insisted I was mis-interpreting Romans 6.]

May I also point you to Revelation 21:7-8 ...
Following the BUT (at the beginning of 21:8),
we have a list of people headed for the Lake of Fire!
One type of person is the "unbelieving".
Prior to that is the "cowardly", who are, IMO:
1) BACS who fall away during Christian persecution.
2) ANYONE who submits to take the mark of the beast.
These 2 types are too cowardly to remain in the faith!

All of this (and multitudes more NT warnings)
absolutely destroys OSAS, eternal security, etc.
For salvation is a process, which ends at death!

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is closed for review. Let's take a break and catch our breath, here.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON

Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
Thread now open for posting again
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[YeshuaFan]

Do those believing in “grace only without accountability” fear the Lord

Yes, they’re afraid they won’t get their fair share of rewards in heaven! lol

The 2 reasons for obeying Jesus’ commandments
● LOVE ● In 4 different verses in John 14, Jesus said,
for example: “Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me.”
(John 14:21)
● FEAR ● “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you,
fear Him!” (Luke 12:4-5)

Yes, wise believers have a reverential fear of the Lord.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Proverbs 1:7, 9:10)

“And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.” (Luke 1:50)

“And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit …” (Acts 9:31)

“But in every nation he who venerates and has
a reverential fear for God, treating Him with worshipful obedience and living uprightly,
is acceptable to Him” (Acts 10:35, AMPC)

“There is none righteous, no, not one … There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

“Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (Romans 11:20-21)

“… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1)

“… submitting to one another in the fear of God.” (Ephesians 5:21)

“… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12)

“… let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:28-29)

“… as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” … conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:15-17)

“Honor all people. Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.” (1 Peter 2:17)

“… always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15)

“… You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great” (Revelation 11:18)

“Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come” (Revelation 14:7)

Since the true Gospel is that a lost sinner is justified by Grace alone received thru faith alone, aren't all Christians in a sense grace alone then?

 

[BCsenior]

Since the true Gospel is that a lost sinner is justified by Grace alone received thru faith alone, aren't all Christians in a sense grace alone then?

This is an excellent question (for today's believers).
But, I've already explained all of this.
Here's the condensed version ...

True BACs were chosen and called by Father God.
Thus, they were given His free gift of grace.
Upon receiving the Holy Spirit, they were loaded up
with everything imaginable (including justification!).
This is their initial condition ... but, there's more ...

BACs have their part to play in their salvation.
For all of the many conditions, instructions, warnings,
etc. ... please refer to the NT ... because ...
the applicable verses would fill up many, many pages!

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is an excellent question (for today's believers).
But, I've already explained all of this.
Here's the condensed version ...

True BACs were chosen and called by Father God.
Thus, they were given His free gift of grace.
Upon receiving the Holy Spirit, they were loaded up
with everything imaginable (including justification!).
This is their initial condition ... but, there's more ...

BACs have their part to play in their salvation.
For all of the many conditions, instructions, warnings,
etc. ... please refer to the NT ... because ...
the applicable verses would fill up many, many pages!

How we obey the lord after salvation deals with our eternal rewards or loss of them, and how much God can use us, but does not affect our eternal life now in Christ!

 

[BCsenior]

How we obey the lord after salvation deals with our eternal rewards or loss of them, and how much God can use us, but does not affect our eternal life now in Christ!

Evidently, you missed this thread ...
Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation
Please, read carefully.

 

[Soyeong]

Do those believing in “grace only without accountability” fear the Lord

Yes, they’re afraid they won’t get their fair share of rewards in heaven! lol

The 2 reasons for obeying Jesus’ commandments
● LOVE ● In 4 different verses in John 14, Jesus said,
for example: “Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me.”
(John 14:21)
● FEAR ● “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you,
fear Him!” (Luke 12:4-5)

Yes, wise believers have a reverential fear of the Lord.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Proverbs 1:7, 9:10)

“And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.” (Luke 1:50)

“And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit …” (Acts 9:31)

“But in every nation he who venerates and has
a reverential fear for God, treating Him with worshipful obedience and living uprightly,
is acceptable to Him” (Acts 10:35, AMPC)

“There is none righteous, no, not one … There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

“Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (Romans 11:20-21)

“… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1)

“… submitting to one another in the fear of God.” (Ephesians 5:21)

“… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12)

“… let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:28-29)

“… as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” … conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:15-17)

“Honor all people. Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.” (1 Peter 2:17)

“… always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15)

“… You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great” (Revelation 11:18)

“Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come” (Revelation 14:7)

The Hebrew word "pachad" refers to the type of fear that makes you want to run and hide, while the word "yireh" refers to to the type of fear that makes you want to see and run towards something. In other words, there is a type of fear where you don't want to be close to someone who is evil and a type of fear where you don't want to be separated from someone who is good, and the type of fear that is the beginning of wisdom is the latter. Our fear of God should cause us to see and run towards God and to remove things from our lives that would separate us from Him.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

The historical doctrines of Grace affirm the fear of the Lord.

The Fear of the Lord by Ray Ortlund

In Him,

Bill