Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

Jason0047 said:

I am only offering you the truth. Jesus condemned being rich in the New Covenant and so did Paul. They taught minimal living and equality and in some cases forsaking almost all material possessions.

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I don't think you'd be able to recognize the truth if it bit you on to backside. You've failed to demonstrate that either Jesus or Paul condemned being rich as such. They certainly did not. But let's try to get a bit more practical with this hogwash you're peddling.

What are you saying? Is it sinful for a Christian to make more than 30-40 thousand per year? I'm the sole breadwinner for my family and I've got four kids. So that's five dependents. And I live in the "midwest". So how much am I allowed to make before being in sin?

timothyu said:

The secular business world would put it at minimum wage. Not sure about the church.

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So Christians cannot make more than minimum wage without being in sin?

Jason0047 said:

A person’s net worth that is in the millions is not a description of believers that we see in the Early Church.

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How did the church, becoming excessively wealthy and powerful, change the thinking within Christianity about wealth and the Kingdom? Did they build their own and say this is it, so everything is fine?

Tree of Life said:

So Christians cannot make more than minimum wage without being in sin?

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As I said, the secular business world would prefer it was so.

timothyu said:

As I said, the secular business world would prefer it was so.

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If you believe that Christians cannot be wealthy then I'm asking for your view. How much is a Christian allowed to make before they are in sin in God's eyes?

@Jason0047 A lot of actors from Christian movies that you like are fairly wealthy. Kirk Cameron's networth is $20 million, for example. You've contributed to his wealth if you've seen or endorsed any of his movies. Does that make you upset?

Jadis40 said:

I'd say she was. Not explicitly stated though. She was a seller of purple, meaning she was of the merchant class and a businesswoman. (Probably sold purple clothing.)

Household could mean servants. Could mean children. Nothing at all mentioned if her husband died and she was a widow.

Doesn't change the fact that it's not recorded that Paul condemned her for having wealth. Paul never told her she had to give up her business.

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How could we possibly know about paul’s conversations with this woman? You are grasping at straws here. We are all sinners, and we all have good characteristics as well. The idea that anyone not specifically ‘condemned’ Is doing everything as well as than can is silly.

Tree of Life said:

How much is a Christian allowed to make before they are in sin in God's eyes?

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When it is no longer a matter of easy come easy go. Of course we provide for our own, but to what degree> When does comfortable take on a new meaning of self entitlement. I've seen people win $5 and instead of putting it to good use they have faith that buying another ticket with it will better benefit them. We know the outcome. Is that a sin? What about those who are upset when what they are given is suddenly taken away? Are they any worse off than they were before? No but how do they feel. Is that a sin? It's not about the money, Sin is in the motive.

timothyu said:

When it is no longer a matter of easy come easy go. Of course we provide for our own, but to what degree> When does comfortable take on a new meaning of self entitlement. I've seen people win $5 and instead of putting it to good use they have faith that buying another ticket with it will better benefit them. We know the outcome. Is that a sin? What about those who are upset when what they are given is suddenly taken away? Are they any worse off than they were before? No but how do they feel. Is that a sin? It's not about the money, Sin is in the motive.

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Ah. Sounds like a heart issue. So it's possible to love money and desire to be rich while being very poor. It's also possible to be wealthy and to be generous, ready to give, and not attached to money. It's possible to have money and not love it. It's possible to be wealthy and not desire to be wealthy.

So let's point out the sin in the heart and not make the foolish mistake of assuming that just because someone has been blessed with wealth that they are automatically in sin. As you say, it's not about the money. It's a heart issue.

Tree of Life said:

If you believe that Christians cannot be wealthy then I'm asking for your view. How much is a Christian allowed to make before they are in sin in God's eyes?

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Each of us knows how much more we could give away, rather than spend on ourselves. Clearly it is different for everyone. It is simply easy to look at anyone whose net worth is over a million dollars and know that they could afford to give more to those in need. Surely the best thing to do would be to give to the less fortunate before spending money on luxuries for ourselves.

Tree of Life said:

As you say, it's not about the money. It's a heart issue.

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Yes but who formed what is in their heart? Can a Christian with an unhealthy heart be called a Christian any more than the man and wife who withheld their profits from the first church??

Sparagmos said:

Surely the best thing to do would be to give to the less fortunate before spending money on luxuries for ourselves.

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Is giving a matter of material things or what we give of ourselves?Is not true giving then giving to others what we needed for ourselves?

Sparagmos said:

Each of us knows how much more we could give away, rather than spend on ourselves. Clearly it is different for everyone. It is simply easy to look at anyone whose net worth is over a million dollars and know that they could afford to give more to those in need. Surely the best thing to do would be to give to the less fortunate before spending money on luxuries for ourselves.

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How much more could you give away?

I know some millionaire Christians whose good works are brighter than the Stars.

Money is not a bad thing but, the love of money is. These people don't love their money. Yet, they use it for many, many good purposes.

M-Bob

Sparagmos said:

How could we possibly know about paul’s conversations with this woman? You are grasping at straws here. We are all sinners, and we all have good characteristics as well. The idea that anyone not specifically ‘condemned’ Is doing everything as well as than can is silly.

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You missed my point. But you are right in saying that we don't know the details of all the conversations Paul had with Lydia. But what we do know is what is recorded in Acts. Namely that she was a believer in God before Paul's encounter with her and other women, and that after Paul and Silas were released from jail, they went to her house.

Jason0047 said:

No. Being rich means that you make enough where you really do not have to work anymore for the rest of your life and you don’t need to worry about money anymore.

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Ah. That's a strange definition of "rich". Sounds to me like you're saying that Christians should not be absurdly rich.

Is it okay for a Christian to make 75k per year?

How many here would like to be tempted with a million dollars to see if they can possess it and remain loyal to the Kingdom?

timothyu said:

How many here would like to be tempted with a million dollars to see if they can possess it and remain loyal to the Kingdom?

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I would thank God for a million dollars. I'd pray to steward it with wisdom, providing for my family and also being generous toward the work of the gospel.

Tree of Life said:

I would thank God for a million dollars.

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But would you like to be tempted with the opportunity? What did Jesus say in the desert?