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So glad to know the resources have both come in handy and have been of interestReally great material Gxg (G2)!
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So glad to know the resources have both come in handy and have been of interestReally great material Gxg (G2)!
It'd be interesting to see how things developed after that point if the Confederacy won and yet fell under pressure because the world had long adapted.A temporary perpetuation of slavery in the Confederate States would have ensued. However, the rest of the world had already tagged slavery as corrupt and the Confederacy would have gradually been politically pressured into abolishing it soon after their military victory.
It actually was not the issue, though they did not know this. Just ask any white man at that time in America from the southern states if it was Constitutionally correct to have white slaves. The way I see it, the slavery issue of the south was a type of "twilight zone" for the first awakening of American civilization towards racism. At that time their knowledge couldn't see it under our modern understanding of racism. That historical population was just beginning to understand (to scratch the surface of) one of the many arms racist beliefs. Hindsight being 20/20 in one hand the Nazi necessity of genocide of the Jews, on the other hand enslaving blacks.and many have long made it out as if the slavery issue was not a key issue behind the secession of the Southern States
It actually was not the issue, though they did not know this. Just ask any white man at that time in America from the southern states if it was Constitutionally correct to have white slaves. The way I see it, the slavery issue of the south was a type of "twilight zone" for the first awakening of American civilization towards racism. At that time their knowledge couldn't see it under our modern understanding of racism. That historical population was just beginning to understand (to scratch the surface of) one of the many arms racist beliefs. Hindsight being 20/20 in one hand the Nazi necessity of genocide of the Jews, on the other hand enslaving blacks.
The other oddity of the American civil war was at that time Christian Britain abolished slavery far more peaceably while the Muslim Ottoman Turks still practiced it. All of it is somewhat like trying to point to who has more blood stains on their hands. Romans 3:10-18
Something I recently came across that has literally fascinated me....Really great material Gxg (G2)!
Something I recently came across that has literally fascinated me....
With all of the recent discussions (after the horror of what happened in Virginia last month with that White Supremacy rally and the aftermath of people demanding the removal of Confederate monuments) that we have a lot of things that we need to now bring to the forefront. I am Remembering today, if the focus is on memory in our nation, how so many stories are unknown to show how much of U.S. history was GLOBAL history. Glad for learning recently of the Asian Americans present in the Civil War, like my dude Corporal Joseph Pierce.
As another said best, "he was mustered into the Fourteenth Regiment, Company F of the Connecticut Volunteer Infantry that became part of the Second Brigade of the Third Division, Second Army Corps of the Army of the Potomac. From 1862 to 1865, Pierce survived some of the bloodiest battles of the war and is believed to have achieved the highest rank of any Chinese American to serve in the Union Army, having reached the rank of Corporal."
Sadly, Despite his many achievements, he was denied US citizenship due to the anti-immigrant Chinese Exclusion Act that happened not too long after the Civil War era - and many Asian Americans in their military history had the same experience, until others finally honored their stories in recent decades. There are many events that bring cultures together around the world and then are later forgotten. With the Chinese in America, the Trans-Continental Railroad did much with bringing immigrants to the Americans to build - but there are also other world events that made a difference, considering how Russia and China were allies during the Civil War era AND Russia actually supported the Union (as the Tsar and Lincoln were friends).
For more info, one can go here:
- -"The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war...the involvement of a handful of Chinese combatants - as well as their shameful treatment afterwards" (The Chinese soldiers who fought in the American civil war )
Good pointsAnyone mention the Indian Nations contained within the borders of the Confederate States (?)
Confederate government (Albert Pike) negotiated & ratified several treaties w/Southern tribes. I plead ignorance on all the details of Pike's treaties.. but I assume an independent CSA could've have ceded land back to Indian allies, following assistance with a theoretical victory.
I mention this because I think the CSA could've fractured in to both some small Indian nations, and separate, independent states. I don't believe it would've stayed in it's wartime (emergency) form. It's also possible the upper South could've reunited with the Union (I mean, without Lincoln's conscription, Virginia may have never seceded).. and Cuba could've joined a Deep Southern Confederacy.. maybe?
Interesting speculation either way..
As an aside, at a rally protesting Neo-Nazis in Newnan (GA), I actually met someone with a Confederate States badge and we had a fascinating conversation on what you noted. Glad we met with our new friend Alan and be reminded on the ways that not everyone in the South who was a Confederate was against Black folks, especially seeing the ways that things weren't all good up North.Anyone mention the Indian Nations contained within the borders of the Confederate States (?)
Confederate government (Albert Pike) negotiated & ratified several treaties w/Southern tribes. I plead ignorance on all the details of Pike's treaties.. but I assume an independent CSA could've have ceded land back to Indian allies, following assistance with a theoretical victory.
I mention this because I think the CSA could've fractured in to both some small Indian nations, and separate, independent states. I don't believe it would've stayed in it's wartime (emergency) form. It's also possible the upper South could've reunited with the Union (I mean, without Lincoln's conscription, Virginia may have never seceded).. and Cuba could've joined a Deep Southern Confederacy.. maybe?
Interesting speculation either way..
In order for the South to have won the American Civil War.. Maryland would have defected prior to Antietam, Washington DC would have fallen.. nor would Dixie and the Confederate battle flag have been symbols of oppression..
Interesting..In order for the South to have won the American Civil War, they would have had to give up on slavery, and fight solely for constitutional states' rights. In fact, the South PROBABLY would have won were that the case. Maryland would have defected prior to Antietam, Washington DC would have fallen. The British would have thrown their support solidly behind the South. The Battle Hymn would not have been the abolitionists' battle cry, nor would Dixie and the Confederate battle flag have been symbols of oppression. Maybe they wouldn't have achieved total capitulation by the North; but the North would have recognized their secession, as the CSA had been seeking.
So if the CSA had won the Civil War, for that reason, we actually would have been better off. At least then you could cross Trump's border wall into Virginia.
Interesting..
With Maryland, the history it had with the Confederacy is rather fascinating..
There are MANY aspects about Border States that are very problematic when it comes to seeing the ways that they allowed for a lot of mistreatment to occur in the U.S and remain hidden from many simply because the assumption was "To be in the North meant one was against slavery." Booth is not someone that can be avoided when it comes to seeing how the North was not uniform.Agreed. I've done a lot of reading on Border States over the years (especially Maryland & Delaware).. Maryland, true Border State.. Southern society, that didn't secede, but was also largely, initially opposed to fighting the seceding deep South (to a point of riotous resistance). Also interested in Delaware, & how they rejected Lincoln's early experiment in compensated emancipation.. I think it's been deliberately obfuscated in the contemporary (anti-Confederate) telling of the good guy-bad guy version of the Civil War. But 4 slave-holding Border States officially stayed in the Union & fought secessionists. I don't think that fact undermines the ultimate, abolitionist component of Lincoln's agenda. But I do think it shows the primacy of forced Union preservation as the call to arms.. Slave-holding Unionists fighting to forcefully retain other slave-holders.. is a lot less admirable cause for some modern Americans to celebrate, or admit (?)
Maryland Civil War trivia that seems often unmentioned (or more likely nobody cares about): John Wilkes Booth was born, & ultimately buried, in Maryland.. peace.
There are MANY aspects about Border States that are very problematic when it comes to seeing the ways that they allowed for a lot of mistreatment to occur in the U.S and remain hidden from many simply because the assumption was "To be in the North meant one was against slavery." Booth is not someone that can be avoided when it comes to seeing how the North was not uniform.
And something else to consider on your point is that many Border States were already in cahoots with open slavery of other ethnic groups, including Native Americans (in many places RELABELED as 'Negro' due to Paper Genocide and Census Laws).
For an excellent historical read on the issue, I Saw it at the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian in December and honored by the amazing teachers/historians putting forth resources like this. Footnotes and more on what is considered the most extensive genocide in U.S history - and one we don't talk on, from the Yana to several other groups that resisted literal erasure from history.
Genocide and erasure at the SAME time Folks debated whether Black slaves deserved freedom and at the SAME time Blacks/Whites fought during the Civil War. It was never the case that Lincoln was innocent toward Natives nor Grant and many others when seeing legal murder and SLAVERY....