One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

Status
Not open for further replies.

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

And we all know it.

So do you need a commandment to tell you not to slander and curse at the people you love? Is the only reason that you're not screaming obscenities at people who pass by you on the street is because there is a law in your city against such a thing, and that's the only thing holding you back from doing it? If so, maybe that's why you're so adamant that everyone needs to be yoked under a whole bunch of commandments to keep all the rampant Christian chaos under control, because if that's what you would do, then everyone else is exactly the same? Is the Holy Spirit not competent enough on his own to guide his people?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
So do you need a commandment to tell you not to slander and curse at the people you love? Is the only reason that you're not screaming obscenities at people who pass by you on the street is because there is a law in your city against such a thing, and that's the only thing holding you back from doing it? If so, maybe that's why you're so adamant that everyone needs to be yoked under a whole bunch of commandments to keep all the rampant Christian chaos under control, because if that's what you would do, then everyone else is exactly the same? Is the Holy Spirit not competent enough on his own to guide his people?

Not everyone has been raised a Christian--not everyone knows not to curse and yell--and they do so very well---and that includes Christians, actually. The law is there for those who have never heard of those or understood how much God is against these things. Children are brought up without ever having even seen the 10 commandments--once they know, and accept, the Holy Spirit will remind them. It is up to Christians to tell the world of Jesus and His love, which included what not to do. For most--doing wrong, lawless acts, are neither wrong nor lawless.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Amen! The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord.

And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

And we all know it.

Hint: Christ said the Word of God "still matters" no matter how one invents ways to belittle or downsize its importance --- in Mark 7:6-13

So do you need a commandment to tell you not to slander and curse

Are you trying to illustrate my point or refute it?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Amen! The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord.

And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

And we all know it.

How does your verse deal with the subject? What is danthemailman in rebellion with? Doesn't he have to be subject to that?

Dan points to a attribute of one of the Commandments of God saying that you first see it stated in command form in Exodus 16. His effort is to "infer" that maybe this "detail" works to "Delete the commandment" for anyone who is not a Jew.

I simply point out that same sort of "detail" can be pointed out about other Commandments of God as well - for example "Do not take God's name in vain" which has that feature in even more glaring form than can be found with the case of God's Sabbath Command.

This illustrates the fact that his "new rule" to use for deleting God's commands or declaring that they don't apply to you - does not work , as we all can see in the case of the command "do not take God's name in vain".
 
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Typical straw man arguments. Those who pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" are in rebellion to God's Word. (Galatians 1:6-9)
Who said anything about salvation?
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.
It is kind of the seventh day since Saturday and Sunday are the weekend right? The Jewish Sabbath was from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, you couldn't even cook, you had to prepare the meals in advance.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: JohnB445
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

True.

"... Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

True.

They are playing 'games' with eternal things, and ought to beware, as it is written in most serious tones:

Isa 57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

And we all know it.

Surely I know it.

Since men, as us, know it openly, as a book displayed and turned to the table of 'contents' (for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh; for they are as counterfeit epistles, read and known of all men to be spurious, a walking 'gospel of Thomas, Judas', etc), what then of God, who knoweth all things, even the deepest recesses of the deceitful heart, that loves to deceive and be deceived?

Hint: Christ said the Word of God "still matters" no matter how one invents ways to belittle or downsize its importance --- in Mark 7:6-13

Even beyond that, Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother:

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
 
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

And we all know it.

Dan points to a attribute of one of the Commandments of God saying that you first see it stated in command form in Exodus 16. His effort is to "infer" that maybe this "detail" works to "Delete the commandment" for anyone who is not a Jew.

I simply point out that same sort of "detail" can be pointed out about other Commandments of God as well - for example "Do not take God's name in vain" which has that feature in even more glaring form than can be found with the case of God's Sabbath Command.

This illustrates the fact that his "new rule" to use for deleting God's commands or declaring that they don't apply to you - does not work , as we all can see in the case of the command "do not take God's name in vain".

Indeed, moreover, using the same 'reasons' ('cuz 'reasons'), I cannot find a single verbatim mention of any of what they clamor on about in Acts 15 either, and yet for whatever reason this is the passage of scripture that is offered in tandem with their other vain imaginings.

Secondarily, I cannot find a single 'rule', 'precept', 'law', 'argument', 'reason', and/or 'statement (by God, angel, man or animal)', etc. in all of scripture, in which 'their vain tradition' and mantra of 'it has to be repeated (verbatim) in the NT' to be valid, honourable, in force, active law, etc.

Are witches (Deut. 18:9-12) still an "abomination", to them, in the NT?

Where do they get this 'rule' and/or 'practice' from?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Typical straw man arguments. ...

Could you finally address the following please (it has been given to you in multiple forums now):

You have been answered on numerous occasions, and on numerous webforums. I ask you now to deal with the material presented:

It was given to the "children of Israel" (Exodus 31:13) as a "perpetual (eternal) covenant" (Exodus 31:16) since it is the "sign" that the LORD is the Creator ("made") of "heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:17).

Hint:

Jesus is the real Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the real "Prince" (Genesis 32:28; Acts 5:31) with God, the "overc[omer]" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20) with whom the eternal covenant was made and His "disciples" are His "children", in whom the "law" of God (Exodus 20:1-17; Isaiah 8:20) is sealed, given Him by His Father (Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33).

Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21; Gen 32:28; Act 5:31;

Matthew:

Matthew 2:13 KJB - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:14 KJB - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Matthew 2:15 KJB - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hosea:

Hosea 11:1 KJB - When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

According to the prophet Hosea, “Israel” is the [male, “him”] “child”, even the “son” of God [JEHOVAH, the Father], whom God “called” “out of Egypt”.

Compare again to the words specifically used by Matthew in Matthew 2:13-15:

"the young child", "into Egypt", "the young child", "him", "the young child", "into Egypt", "that it might be fulfilled" "which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet", "Out of Egypt", "have I called", "my son".

To the words used in Hosea 11:1:

“a child”, “him”, “called” “my son” “out of Egypt”.

What was this "child's" name? Who is speaking through the prophet? Who then is the "my" of "my son", and who then is this "son"?

Notice:

1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Just as Adam (the first), Jesus is Adam the second/last (1 Corinthians 15:45,47), for (Colossians 1:16) whom the Sabbath was "made" (Mark 2:27) at Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

Just as David, Jesus is the real David (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23,24, 37:24,25; Hosea 3:5).

Just as Solomon, Jesus is the real Solomon, the "son of David" (Luke 18:38), the "Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

Just as Joshua the son of Nun (perpetual/eternal), Jesus is the real Joshua (Matthew 1:21; Luke 1:31) the Son of the Eternal Father.

Just as Moses, Jesus is "that Prophet" that God the Father raised up (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 1:21, 6:14, 7:40; Acts 3:22-23, 7:37) who would lead his people out of bondage of sin into the promised land.

Just as Melchizedek priest of Salem, Jesus is the High Priest of Peace/Gospel (Hebrews 5:10, 7:26, 9:11).

Just as Isaac (rejoicing in joy), Jesus is the true Isaac, our rejoicing (Jeremiah 15:16; John 16:22).

The everlasting covenant (Malachi 2:5; Hebrews 13:20) was made (between God the Father, and) with the real "Israel" (Jesus (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1), the "elect"; Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 12:18), for it is said, it is with the "house of Israel" (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:8), and Jesus is over His own "house", whose "house are we" (Hebrews 3:6).

Matthew is clear, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, citing the inspired prophet Hosea, that Jesus is the real fulfillment of Hosea 11:1, and his name is there given as "Israel" - the real overcomer over all things with God.
 
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Very good site. Bookmarked. thanks.

Try this one (I hear it is scholar friendly, and much more researched and documented than those other cheap knockoff sites passed around in the 'mail', but only if you are interested in actual scripturally sourced, historically documented, reasonable and intelligent presentations, otherwise by all means go with that other one) - Spirit of Prophecy/Testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
... The word "shabath" a verb does appear in Genesis two. Shabath is never translated as sabbath.

Besides God Himself telling us in Exodus 20:8-11, have you considered the linguistics we commonly use even today?

such as:

[1] a "gerund"

[2] a "nominalization" Type B (zero derivation)

etc?

Example 1.

(used as Noun) Please give the "solve" for the equation, "2+2=?"

(used as verb) Please "solve" the equation "2+2=?"

(used simulaneously, a little clunky but still valid) Please "solve" the "solve" of the equation "2+2=?"

Example 2.

(used as a noun) I got into my "ride" and took off.

(used as a verb) I need to "ride" to my destination today.

(used simultaneously) I got into my "ride" to "ride" to my destination today.

Example 3.

(used as a noun) I went to "work" today.

(used as a verb) I went to "work" today.

(used simultaneously) It is too much "work" to go into "work" today.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Acts 20:7

How does Acts 20:7 (a onetime, latenight farewell gathering for Paul, on 'saturday night' (first [day] of the week (εν δε τη μια των σαββατων)), wherein a recorded gathering took place on a commonly numbered day of the week, as it had from the beginning of time on earth, answer the material about "Israel"?

You do know that the Jews met on any and all days of the week, right?

Indeed, and not only in Acts, yes even in the Gospels and elsewhere, the Christians [even as did the Jews] met daily, none of which eliminates obedience to God in His 4th Commandment:

Jesus met in the temple "daily" [and not only there, also synagogue, and in nature], even especially in his last week from Sunday to Tuesday, especially: John 11:55, 21:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20; see additionally [in this order, read carefully], Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11; John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19; Matthew 26:2; Mark 14:1; Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27; Matthew 23:37,38,39 [Parallel to Luke 13:31,32,33,34,35]

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Acts 2:46

And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 5:42

And does any know why this "daily"? Understand this text - Psalms 77:13

Also, Jesus met with the Disciples the 2nd day of the week here, since he spent a great deal of time with the two Disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the first day [see Luke 24:21, "...beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done"], it came to be evening [which begins the next day, when the sun sets at even, Mark 1:32; Leviticus 23:32; Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, etc ], and then they sat down to dinner, and as Jesus vanished before them, they ran back to Jerusalem at night and then Jesus met with them again, all together [thus no longer the 'first [day] of the week', but rather the second [day] of the week]:

But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. Luke 24:29

And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Luke 24:30

And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Luke 24:33

And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. Luke 24:36

Jesus also stayed for 40 days after His resurrection, His first ascension and return:

To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Acts 1:3

Thus, since Jesus ascended for the Second time, this time from the Mount of Olives, he was there with them exactly 10 days before Pentecost [first [day] of the week], which means, we see again that Jesus was with them not merely upon the first [day] of the week.

Yet, again, what does anything in Acts 20:7 (a 'saturday night' (first [day] of the week (εν δε τη μια των σαββατων)) meeting until midnight and beyond) have to do with the given:

You have been answered on numerous occasions, and on numerous webforums. I ask you now to deal with the material presented:

It was given to the "children of Israel" (Exodus 31:13) as a "perpetual (eternal) covenant" (Exodus 31:16) since it is the "sign" that the LORD is the Creator ("made") of "heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:17).

Hint:

Jesus is the real Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the real "Prince" (Genesis 32:28; Acts 5:31) with God, the "overc[omer]" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20) with whom the eternal covenant was made and His "disciples" are His "children", in whom the "law" of God (Exodus 20:1-17; Isaiah 8:20) is sealed, given Him by His Father (Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33).

Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21; Gen 32:28; Act 5:31;

Matthew:

Matthew 2:13 KJB - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:14 KJB - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Matthew 2:15 KJB - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hosea:

Hosea 11:1 KJB - When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

According to the prophet Hosea, “Israel” is the [male, “him”] “child”, even the “son” of God [JEHOVAH, the Father], whom God “called” “out of Egypt”.

Compare again to the words specifically used by Matthew in Matthew 2:13-15:

"the young child", "into Egypt", "the young child", "him", "the young child", "into Egypt", "that it might be fulfilled" "which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet", "Out of Egypt", "have I called", "my son".

To the words used in Hosea 11:1:

“a child”, “him”, “called” “my son” “out of Egypt”.

What was this "child's" name? Who is speaking through the prophet? Who then is the "my" of "my son", and who then is this "son"?

Notice:

1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Just as Adam (the first), Jesus is Adam the second/last (1 Corinthians 15:45,47), for (Colossians 1:16) whom the Sabbath was "made" (Mark 2:27) at Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

Just as David, Jesus is the real David (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23,24, 37:24,25; Hosea 3:5).

Just as Solomon, Jesus is the real Solomon, the "son of David" (Luke 18:38), the "Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

Just as Joshua the son of Nun (perpetual/eternal), Jesus is the real Joshua (Matthew 1:21; Luke 1:31) the Son of the Eternal Father.

Just as Moses, Jesus is "that Prophet" that God the Father raised up (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 1:21, 6:14, 7:40; Acts 3:22-23, 7:37) who would lead his people out of bondage of sin into the promised land.

Just as Melchizedek priest of Salem, Jesus is the High Priest of Peace/Gospel (Hebrews 5:10, 7:26, 9:11).

Just as Isaac (rejoicing in joy), Jesus is the true Isaac, our rejoicing (Jeremiah 15:16; John 16:22).

The everlasting covenant (Malachi 2:5; Hebrews 13:20) was made (between God the Father, and) with the real "Israel" (Jesus (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1), the "elect"; Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 12:18), for it is said, it is with the "house of Israel" (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:8), and Jesus is over His own "house", whose "house are we" (Hebrews 3:6).

Matthew is clear, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, citing the inspired prophet Hosea, that Jesus is the real fulfillment of Hosea 11:1, and his name is there given as "Israel" - the real overcomer over all things with God.

???
 
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
...I guess the NT Church did not debate this much and often gathered together.

There is no prohibition from gathering together on any day.

There is a commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) that prohibits common labour/work on the 7th Day, which is the sabbath of the LORD thy God (His Holy day) with a positive command to "rest" as God did.

The two things are separate.

As stated earlier, Jews, Greeks and Christians met on any day of the week for various reasons, and we all do this still today, especially evening events, like vespers, prayer meeting (twice a week, Wed (evening) and Sun (morning) for whomever wants to come early in their pj's), potlucks, health events/seminars (can last a single day to a week), prophecy seminars (month long events, nearly every day of the week for most and some all days of the week), bible study, fellowship, etc., and yet how does any of that conflict with the commandment, or negate it?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How does Acts 20:7 (a onetime, latenight farewell gathering for Paul, on 'saturday night' (first [day] of the week (εν δε τη μια των σαββατων)), wherein a recorded gathering took place on a commonly numbered day of the week, as it had from the beginning of time on earth, answer the material about "Israel"?

You do know that the Jews met on any and all days of the week, right?

Indeed, and not only in Acts, yes even in the Gospels and elsewhere, the Christians [even as did the Jews] met daily, none of which eliminates obedience to God in His 4th Commandment:

Jesus met in the temple "daily" [and not only there, also synagogue, and in nature], even especially in his last week from Sunday to Tuesday, especially: John 11:55, 21:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20; see additionally [in this order, read carefully], Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11; John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19; Matthew 26:2; Mark 14:1; Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27; Matthew 23:37,38,39 [Parallel to Luke 13:31,32,33,34,35]

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Acts 2:46

And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 5:42

And does any know why this "daily"? Understand this text - Psalms 77:13

Also, Jesus met with the Disciples the 2nd day of the week here, since he spent a great deal of time with the two Disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the first day [see Luke 24:21, "...beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done"], it came to be evening [which begins the next day, when the sun sets at even, Mark 1:32; Leviticus 23:32; Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, etc ], and then they sat down to dinner, and as Jesus vanished before them, they ran back to Jerusalem at night and then Jesus met with them again, all together [thus no longer the 'first [day] of the week', but rather the second [day] of the week]:

But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. Luke 24:29

And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Luke 24:30

And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Luke 24:33

And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. Luke 24:36

Jesus also stayed for 40 days after His resurrection, His first ascension and return:

To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Acts 1:3

Thus, since Jesus ascended for the Second time, this time from the Mount of Olives, he was there with them exactly 10 days before Pentecost [first [day] of the week], which means, we see again that Jesus was with them not merely upon the first [day] of the week.

Yet, again, what does anything in Acts 20:7 (a 'saturday night' (first [day] of the week (εν δε τη μια των σαββατων)) meeting until midnight and beyond) have to do with the given:



???
I don’t think 1st Century Jews used “Saturday” as that is a pagan Roman observance of days of the week.

And I agree. The early Christians under the apostles met often as a body.

That’s probably why Pau said to do the Lord’s Supper as often as they gather.
1 Corinthians 11:23–26
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don’t think 1st Century Jews used “Saturday” as that is a pagan Roman observance of days of the week.
I did not say they did. I used that designation to identify what the text (Acts 20:7) means when it says 'first [day] of the week' at evening (night) in our modern day paganly named days of the week.
 
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don’t think 1st Century Jews used “Saturday” as that is a pagan Roman observance of days of the week.

And I agree. The early Christians under the apostles met often as a body.

That’s probably why Pau said to do the Lord’s Supper as often as they gather.
1 Corinthians 11:23–26

There's an assumption being made upon your part in regards the text cited.

Can you show me "the cup" in Acts 20:7?

Can you show me the words "Lord's supper" in Acts 20:7?

Can you show me the 'footwashing' in Acts 20:7, which is commanded in John 13:14.

You can show me "klasai arton" (break bread), but that is not automatically "kuriakon deipnon" (Lord's supper).

There is a lot being eisegeted into Acts 20:7.

I can show you simple breaking of bread which is simply eating a meal:

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act 2:46 καθ ημεραν τε προσκαρτερουντες ομοθυμαδον εν τω ιερω κλωντες τε κατ οικον αρτον μετελαμβανον τροφης εν αγαλλιασει και αφελοτητι καρδιας

If someone wants to tell me that they follow that pattern in Acts 2:46, in desiring to say that each 'breaking bread' is the memorial of the 'Lord's supper', then do they do this 'house to house' each day of the week?

I know of no one who claims to do so.
 
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,703
2,813
Midwest
✟305,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And "do not take God's name in vain" is first found in Exodus 20 ... and not found at all in the NT.

Those little games "mean nothing" at all in terms of license to rebel against God's Word.

And we all know it.

Dan points to a attribute of one of the Commandments of God saying that you first see it stated in command form in Exodus 16. His effort is to "infer" that maybe this "detail" works to "Delete the commandment" for anyone who is not a Jew.

I simply point out that same sort of "detail" can be pointed out about other Commandments of God as well - for example "Do not take God's name in vain" which has that feature in even more glaring form than can be found with the case of God's Sabbath Command.

This illustrates the fact that his "new rule" to use for deleting God's commands or declaring that they don't apply to you - does not work , as we all can see in the case of the command "do not take God's name in vain".
I find it interesting that when I come across articles on the internet by those who believe ALL 10 Commandments are repeated in the NT and are binding on the Church, they have verses such as Matthew 5:33,34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7 and James 5:12 to show that "do not take God's name in vain" is repeated in the New Testament, even though those "exact words" are not stated.

In Matthew 5:33,34 we read - Again you have heard that old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne.

In 1 Timothy 6:1, we read - Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

James 2:7 - Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

James 5:12 - But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.

Would that cover taking the Lord's name in vain? Certainly it would. In regards to the Sabbath, be sure to go back and read posts #285 and #290. *Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church commanded to keep the Sabbath day or is condemned for failing to do so.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church in the New Testament.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The gospel remains under attack by certain Sabbatarians who play the same game in salvation as every other movement of Christendom that teaches salvation by works. Such people profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, not works, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the gospel. Even though such people may even deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." More than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) :(

As I already pointed out in post #421, the Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel (Exodus 31:16-17) and gives the reason for Sabbath observance for Israel in Deuteronomy 5:15 - Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. :oldthumbsup:

So Sabbath keeping is not meant to be a legalistic prescription for the Church in the New Testament. (Colossians 2:16-17)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,703
2,813
Midwest
✟305,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who said anything about salvation?
Do you really believe that keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation for Sabbatarians? Maybe not for all Sabbatarians, but for certain Sabbatarians, it absolutely does! Here is an example of one such group who teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. :eek: - Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
 
  • Like
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.