Questioning John....

Samuel_North1 · Jul 31, 2018

Hello,

I am brand new on this site, but I have no religious family members to help me understand this.

I am not entirely religious, mostly because I am still seeking a belief, but I enjoy picking up propaganda related books to see through the mindset of what shoes people are in. (Bible, Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, The Quran, Etc.)

I decided to take a look at the Bible, and all seemed to be on a good run until I ran into this part from John.

2 John 9-11

"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you, does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."

I couldn't help it, but it bothered me very much. I am confused at what it is saying since I accept and am tolerant of many friends of mine of different religions; satanist, Christian, atheist, Buddhist. I was told to love my enemies, but when it comes to a point where John explains I must push them away for their different beliefs for fear of them having an impact on myself, I flat out disagree. Especially "do not receive him into your house, nor greet him". It confused me, I like my friends, but am I to seriously not greet them or avoid them just because of a different religion or belief?

I take this quote to heart, but it doesn't mix with John 9-11..

John 13:34-35
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this, all people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another.”

anyone's thoughts would be helpful as to why this is here.

narrowgateevangelist · Jul 31, 2018

In John 13:34-35 Jesus is instructing his disciples in the method of interacting with each other. A sincere love from both individuals is a requirement.

In 2 John 9-11 John is identifying hypocrites. Individual's who pretend to be Christian. So that they gain material and status benefits from pretending to be a Christian disciple. If a sincere Christian knowingly takes a hypocrite into their household. That Christian is giving a base of operations. To an individual who will continue to manipulate others. Thereby real damage will be done to other people. Whether a Christian or an unbeliever.

Paul here is instructing other Christians here. How to individually behave. Towards others who have not accepted the gospel.

1 Corinthians 5: 9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

God bless

timewerx · Jul 31, 2018

You do not love your enemies by tolerating them in their false beliefs.

It could make them think they are okay - and if somehow, they too became Christians later on, they would also think it's okay to tolerate people with false beliefs.

And could give the devil a foot hold to let false beliefs to infiltrate Christian teachings.

It is more loving to expose the fruitless deeds of your enemies - Ephesians 5:11.

It is the TRUTH that sets free, not by telling people, everything is okay, even if it's not!

A_Thinker · Jul 31, 2018

Samuel_North1 said:
Hello,

I am brand new on this site, but I have no religious family members to help me understand this.

I am not entirely religious, mostly because I am still seeking a belief, but I enjoy picking up propaganda related books to see through the mindset of what shoes people are in. (Bible, Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, The Quran, Etc.)

I decided to take a look at the Bible, and all seemed to be on a good run until I ran into this part from John.

2 John 9-11

"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you, does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."

I couldn't help it, but it bothered me very much. I am confused at what it is saying since I accept and am tolerant of many friends of mine of different religions; satanist, Christian, atheist, Buddhist. I was told to love my enemies, but when it comes to a point where John explains I must push them away for their different beliefs for fear of them having an impact on myself, I flat out disagree. Especially "do not receive him into your house, nor greet him". It confused me, I like my friends, but am I to seriously not greet them or avoid them just because of a different religion or belief?

I take this quote to heart, but it doesn't mix with John 9-11..

John 13:34-35
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this, all people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another.”

anyone's thoughts would be helpful as to why this is here.

Hi Sam ... welcome to CF's ...

John, in his letter to the churches here, was concerned about unchristian ideas which were already affecting the faith of his fellow christians. The christian faith was very new at this time, and very vulnerable to distortion.

So ... I think that John is speaking of the house meetings of the church, and is saying that they should be reserved for christians (and christian seekers). so, in a sense, he is saying that we shouldn't let proponents of other beliefs into our sacred places, for fear that they might have some type of heretical influence there. In other words, the church should be the place where the christian message is shared, and no other.

I think, though, that individual christians can utilize this scripture, in that it is a warning to guard your faith against the ideas of others.

Samuel_North1 · Jul 31, 2018

narrowgateevangelist said:
In John 13:34-35 Jesus is instructing his disciples in the method of interacting with each other. A sincere love from both individuals is a requirement.

In 2 John 9-11 John is identifying hypocrites. Individual's who pretend to be Christian. So that they gain material and status benefits from pretending to be a Christian disciple. If a sincere Christian knowingly takes a hypocrite into their household. That Christian is giving a base of operations. To an individual who will continue to manipulate others. Thereby real damage will be done to other people. Whether a Christian or an unbeliever.

Paul here is instructing other Christians here. How to individually behave. Towards others who have not accepted the gospel.

1 Corinthians 5: 9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

God bless

Absolutely people who fake being Christian for the benefit are to not be associated with, but if I have a friend who has been dear to me and is a strict nonbeliever, I will have no shame in taking him under my wing as a friend. Am I to be sent to hell for making a dear friend?

Paidiske · Aug 2, 2018

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Samuel_North1 · Dec 2, 2018

timewerx said:
You do not love your enemies by tolerating them in their false beliefs.

It could make them think they are okay - and if somehow, they too became Christians later on, they would also think it's okay to tolerate people with false beliefs.

And could give the devil a foot hold to let false beliefs to infiltrate Christian teachings.

It is more loving to expose the fruitless deeds of your enemies - Ephesians 5:11.

It is the TRUTH that sets free, not by telling people, everything is okay, even if it's not!

You have completely missed the point.

The entire point of this article, is that I don’t look at my “enemies” as enemies. We have no conscious or concrete evidence that what the Bible tells is real, so your reply “they would think it’s okay to tolerate people with false belief” is ridiculous considering that other religions are saying the same exact thing.

The point being, is I’m astounded such a peaceful religion is going to go as far to say that “we shouldn’t tolerate people with false beliefs” despite the fact the Bible is stating we should love our peers and respect them for who they are despite what they believe in or not because they are ALL GODS CHILDREN.

That stating, if I was to go the Christian path, I’m still stuck in a loop of “those who show hate to their brothers are not lovers of god” but then go to say “we don’t tolerate those of false beliefs”.

Your own pope even goes to say when it comes to those of non-believers and homosexuals, that “god made you this way and he loves you”. That’s a real quote.

Samuel_North1 · Dec 2, 2018

I absolutely do love my friends, and I refuse to look at them as enemies. And I’m pretty ashamed of the Bible itself if it is going to teach me that “your friends shouldn’t be tolerated, they aren’t believers”.

With that in mind, I’m not going to shove my friends off, because I choose to keep my respect for them.

False belief or not..

FireDragon76 · Dec 2, 2018

This passage is not a prohibition against individuals tolerating their neighbors religious beliefs. It is strictly a command for congregations to keep to the doctrine they have received.

Supporting religious freedom is thoroughly in keeping with being a Christian, because we are instructed to live in peace with all people.

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