Eternally Life Saving Beliefs....What Beliefs, Exactly, Are Required?

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Hello Dear Friends,


What are we to properly believe that will lead us into a proper submission to Christ?


I ask this question because what if our belief structure is only 50% percent correct? Won’t this translate into a 50% submission? And what effect does a 50% submission to Jesus do to our level of obedience? And, of course, it [is] rational to believe that if we are only 50% obedient, there’s little chance that we might be confident, let alone courageous. So now that we are feeling the effects of our partial belief system, which has clearly led to a partial and incomplete gospel, who would ever think that such a person would want to testify about their luke-warm relationship with Christ? I can’t imagine anyone would, for in my 50 plus years of living, no one has ever tried to share the real Gospel of Christ to me….and that, too, is almost impossible, though desperately true. How can this be? Is it because our weak, “Christian” minds simply do not have our belief system in check and in order?


So as you can see, the root of our belief system is critical to pretty much every aspect of our lives. The greater and more aligned we are with God's actual truth, we will be more apt to reclaim the basic sense of confidence that He has given us and expects us all to employ as we share our faith face to face with another person.


So let’s make this a remarkable discussion to see if we can really and truly get to the bottom of what we are to believe so as to create an effectual relationship with our Almighty, Powerful Creator (and each other). Hardened hearts are only for the deceived, so let's ensure that our hearts are not hardened!

I will start by stating that Obedience is not the Vessel that grants Salvation, but it is the Letter that Confirms our Identity. Let us turn from our sin and change, becoming transformed by changing the way we think!

In seeking one truth and one mind, I wish you all well.
 

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Hello Dear Friends,


What are we to properly believe that will lead us into a proper submission to Christ?


I ask this question because what if our belief structure is only 50% percent correct? Won’t this translate into a 50% submission? And what effect does a 50% submission to Jesus do to our level of obedience? And, of course, it [is] rational to believe that if we are only 50% obedient, there’s little chance that we might be confident, let alone courageous. So now that we are feeling the effects of our partial belief system, which has clearly led to a partial and incomplete gospel, who would ever think that such a person would want to testify about their luke-warm relationship with Christ? I can’t imagine anyone would, for in my 50 plus years of living, no one has ever tried to share the real Gospel of Christ to me….and that, too, is almost impossible, though desperately true. How can this be? Is it because our weak, “Christian” minds simply do not have our belief system in check and in order?


So as you can see, the root of our belief system is critical to pretty much every aspect of our lives. The greater and more aligned we are with God's actual truth, we will be more apt to reclaim the basic sense of confidence that He has given us and expects us all to employ as we share our faith face to face with another person.


So let’s make this a remarkable discussion to see if we can really and truly get to the bottom of what we are to believe so as to create an effectual relationship with our Almighty, Powerful Creator (and each other). Hardened hearts are only for the deceived, so let's ensure that our hearts are not hardened!

I will start by stating that Obedience is not the Vessel that grants Salvation, but it is the Letter that Confirms our Identity. Let us turn from our sin and change, becoming transformed by changing the way we think!

In seeking one truth and one mind, I wish you all well.
The step is not a single one, in order to be born again. There are several steps in the process. Consider this:

  1. Becoming aliens in a life of serving interests of self for gains that perish.
  2. Crying out to God for citizenship in a life of serving His interests for treasure that lasts.
  3. God is not afraid to be called your God and has prepared a country for you to enter and reveals to you how to enter it, gives you bread from heaven, teaches you the Way, how picking up across results in resurrection through God's great work, after He pulls you out of the water.
  4. Remembering God's great works, the Way.
  5. Hearing His voice.
  6. Moving forward to pick up your cross.
  7. Resurrecting into Christ.
  8. Coming near to God.
  9. Becoming blessings to the world.
 
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bcbsr

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I will start by stating that Obedience is not the Vessel that grants Salvation, but it is the Letter that Confirms our Identity.
Then salvation is not contingent upon obedience, but rather obedience is an effect of being saved. I would agree with that. That is salvation is by faith apart from works, as Paul says, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:4-6 That along with other verses like Eph 2:8,9 confirm the same idea.

So a significant aspect of saving faith is to trust God to justify you, apart from issues of performance.

But we also note whenever the gospel is preached Jesus is referred to as Lord. Even the simply answer to the philippian jailer shows that.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

Consequently I would also incorporated in saving faith is the INTENTION to do what Jesus said. I say "intention", which is an attitude, not a work, because salvation is not contingent upon works. Nor does intention mean that you perfectly end up doing everything Jesus said, but the intention is there and sufficient to qualify one to be saved along with trusting in Christ, and not your own works, to save you. It's like to become a citizen of a Kingdom one must pledge allegiance to the King.

And there are essential facts about Jesus. Again whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible, the resurrection of Christ from the dead is always mentioned. Kind of along the lines of
"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom 10:9

Now you asked in the OP what leads to proper submission. The thing is under the law fear of condemnation was to lead to submission. It didn't work. So what God has done under the New Covenant is that upon coming to saving faith one receives the Spirit which makes him born of God, and that regeneration impacts his behavior such that:

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. 1John 5:3,4

Thus he changes one's nature such that it's natural to do what is right.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Then salvation is not contingent upon obedience, but rather obedience is an effect of being saved. I would agree with that. That is salvation is by faith apart from works, as Paul says, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:4-6 That along with other verses like Eph 2:8,9 confirm the same idea.

Romans 4:4-6 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation. It says salvation was even available to those who did not possess the Sinaitic Covenant, like Abraham. Paul is rebuking the Jewish members of the Roman church, who were teaching the Gentile members that salvation could only be attained by taking part in the Sinaitic Covenant.

Ephesians 2:8,9 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation. It says New Covenant salvation, grace through loyalty salvation, was made available to Gentiles not because they followed a system that was better than Judaism, but because God gifted it to them, by making Israel a vessel of dishonor. They had no reason to boast. Here Paul was rebuking the Gentiles who were belittling the members of Jewish origin, who were seeing Israel being cut off, with all the special requirements of the Sinaitic Covenant being removed from the Assembly of God's People, and the Temple being threatened with destruction, and who were teaching their way of following God was superior and had led God to replace Judaism with it. No system was righteous, neither those following Judaism or the Uncircumcision, all had sinned, fallen short of the glory of God. The inclusion of Gentiles was also a gift, not merit. Grace, because it overlooked sin.

So a significant aspect of saving faith is to trust God to justify you, apart from issues of performance.

Trusting God to justify you does not save you but observing justice, mercy and faithfulness, being loyal and obedient to God does. Trust is often misinterpreted to mean that God saves those who believe God will save those who trust.

Paul said if the uncircumcised person, a non covenant member, who was without the covenant did what was required by the covenant, observed the weightier matters of the Law, he or she would receive the same benefit as a covenant member.

But we also note whenever the gospel is preached Jesus is referred to as Lord. Even the simply answer to the philippian jailer shows that.

In the Ancient Near East, faith mistranslated as belief today, was understood to mean loyalty. Believing in the Lord Jesus saved, because it meant being loyal to Him. Loyalty saves whether it is simply agreeing, believing, like Abraham believing God, which is a loyal response, or if it is taking you son to be sacrificed, which is also a loyal response. The criterion is how you react to an action of God in that particular situation. Did Paul tell the jailer to trust in Jesus or to be loyal to Jesus?

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

Consequently I would also incorporated in saving faith is the INTENTION to do what Jesus said. I say "intention", which is an attitude, not a work, because salvation is not contingent upon works. Nor does intention mean that you perfectly end up doing everything Jesus said, but the intention is there and sufficient to qualify one to be saved along with trusting in Christ, and not your own works, to save you. It's like to become a citizen of a Kingdom one must pledge allegiance to the King.

And there are essential facts about Jesus. Again whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible, the resurrection of Christ from the dead is always mentioned. Kind of along the lines of "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom 10:9

It's necessary to unpack what the resurrection meant. The resurrection was the wedding feast, the last and greatest sign and wonder performed to convince people to come out of Egypt, stop serving the world for gains that perished and begin serving God for treasure that lasts. God's People must not only intend to leave Egypt, they must act, like Zachaeus, with a response showing that intent. Israel left Egypt, she believed in her heart. Baptism is then GIVEN, acknowledging the oath of loyalty taker has qualified to take part in the Covenant. God baptised Israel by drawing her out of the water, escaping wrath.

Now you asked in the OP what leads to proper submission. The thing is under the law fear of condemnation was to lead to submission. It didn't work. So what God has done under the New Covenant is that upon coming to saving faith one receives the Spirit which makes him born of God, and that regeneration impacts his behavior such that:

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. 1John 5:3,4

Thus he changes one's nature such that it's natural to do what is right.

The change in nature is a result of seeing the benefit of serving God to be better than serving the world.

Note how Israel, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira continued to sin, wanted to go back to serving Egypt, as contrasted with Caleb:

Numbers 14:20So the LORD said, “I have pardoned themaccording to your word; 21but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD. 22“Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, 23shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. 24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.
 
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Thess

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The step is not a single one, in order to be born again. There are several steps in the process. Consider this:

  1. Becoming aliens in a life of serving interests of self for gains that perish.
  2. Crying out to God for citizenship in a life of serving His interests for treasure that lasts.
  3. God is not afraid to be called your God and has prepared a country for you to enter and reveals to you how to enter it, gives you bread from heaven, teaches you the Way, how picking up across results in resurrection through God's great work, after He pulls you out of the water.
  4. Remembering God's great works, the Way.
  5. Hearing His voice.
  6. Moving forward to pick up your cross.
  7. Resurrecting into Christ.
  8. Coming near to God.
  9. Becoming blessings to the world.
The step is not a single one, in order to be born again. There are several steps in the process. Consider this:

  1. Becoming aliens in a life of serving interests of self for gains that perish.
  2. Crying out to God for citizenship in a life of serving His interests for treasure that lasts.
  3. God is not afraid to be called your God and has prepared a country for you to enter and reveals to you how to enter it, gives you bread from heaven, teaches you the Way, how picking up across results in resurrection through God's great work, after He pulls you out of the water.
  4. Remembering God's great works, the Way.
  5. Hearing His voice.
  6. Moving forward to pick up your cross.
  7. Resurrecting into Christ.
  8. Coming near to God.
  9. Becoming blessings to the world.
Thank you for your input, we appreciate that much. I must admit that you're a bit more educated with your words than the bulk of us and it took a bit of effort to translate into words and phrases I'm familiar with. Whew....you're a smart one!

From your words, I was able to glean that we need to believe and agree with the principles of *Submission. Must *Hear and *Believe the *Word of *God. Must understand the *Doctrine of *Illumination. Understand that *God *works *His *will *in *us as a true child of God, thus we [will] obey. *Obey every teaching on how to be/*how to *live in the *Way of *Christ.
 
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Thess

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Then salvation is not contingent upon obedience, but rather obedience is an effect of being saved. I would agree with that. That is salvation is by faith apart from works, as Paul says, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:4-6 That along with other verses like Eph 2:8,9 confirm the same idea.

So a significant aspect of saving faith is to trust God to justify you, apart from issues of performance.

But we also note whenever the gospel is preached Jesus is referred to as Lord. Even the simply answer to the philippian jailer shows that.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

Consequently I would also incorporated in saving faith is the INTENTION to do what Jesus said. I say "intention", which is an attitude, not a work, because salvation is not contingent upon works. Nor does intention mean that you perfectly end up doing everything Jesus said, but the intention is there and sufficient to qualify one to be saved along with trusting in Christ, and not your own works, to save you. It's like to become a citizen of a Kingdom one must pledge allegiance to the King.

And there are essential facts about Jesus. Again whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible, the resurrection of Christ from the dead is always mentioned. Kind of along the lines of
"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom 10:9

Now you asked in the OP what leads to proper submission. The thing is under the law fear of condemnation was to lead to submission. It didn't work. So what God has done under the New Covenant is that upon coming to saving faith one receives the Spirit which makes him born of God, and that regeneration impacts his behavior such that:

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. 1John 5:3,4

Thus he changes one's nature such that it's natural to do what is right.

I enjoyed your thoughtful post....lot's of great material. Thank you!

“Then salvation is not contingent upon obedience, but rather obedience is an effect of being saved. I would agree with that.” That’s exactly what I was saying, nice work. The issue is that when people are being led to Christ, they need to be told that obedience was something that they were actually agreeing to. I certainly didn’t understand this, which is exactly why I walked straight to the local 7-11 and stole a bag of rubberbands….hair still wet from my full baptism.


‘Consequently I would also incorporated in saving faith is the INTENTION to do what Jesus said.” I’ve heard this before, from my former best friend who said that though he intended not to spend thousands of dollars on strip clubs while out of town on business, his “intentions” held him safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. He also feels safe and secure, though his daughter was cutting herself and wanting to die because of his torment. I told him that his intentions meant nothing. Is there something there that I’m missing?


“The thing is under the law fear of condemnation was to lead to submission. It didn't work.” That’s really interesting…I haven’t heard of that before. I understand “submission” to mean a decision, such as “to turn”. Submission takes place when we have agreed to obey. I think that I am finding that one cannot submit to Christ if they refuse to obey. If a person is not obeying, there cannot be a submission to Christ. James 4:7,8 is a great one for submission: (NIV) "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded."
 
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Romans 4:4-6 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation. It says salvation was even available to those who did not possess the Sinaitic Covenant, like Abraham. Paul is rebuking the Jewish members of the Roman church, who were teaching the Gentile members that salvation could only be attained by taking part in the Sinaitic Covenant.

Ephesians 2:8,9 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation. It says New Covenant salvation, grace through loyalty salvation, was made available to Gentiles not because they followed a system that was better than Judaism, but because God gifted it to them, by making Israel a vessel of dishonor. They had no reason to boast. Here Paul was rebuking the Gentiles who were belittling the members of Jewish origin, who were seeing Israel being cut off, with all the special requirements of the Sinaitic Covenant being removed from the Assembly of God's People, and the Temple being threatened with destruction, and who were teaching their way of following God was superior and had led God to replace Judaism with it. No system was righteous, neither those following Judaism or the Uncircumcision, all had sinned, fallen short of the glory of God. The inclusion of Gentiles was also a gift, not merit. Grace, because it overlooked sin.



Trusting God to justify you does not save you but observing justice, mercy and faithfulness, being loyal and obedient to God does. Trust is often misinterpreted to mean that God saves those who believe God will save those who trust.

Paul said if the uncircumcised person, a non covenant member, who was without the covenant did what was required by the covenant, observed the weightier matters of the Law, he or she would receive the same benefit as a covenant member.



In the Ancient Near East, faith mistranslated as belief today, was understood to mean loyalty. Believing in the Lord Jesus saved, because it meant being loyal to Him. Loyalty saves whether it is simply agreeing, believing, like Abraham believing God, which is a loyal response, or if it is taking you son to be sacrificed, which is also a loyal response. The criterion is how you react to an action of God in that particular situation. Did Paul tell the jailer to trust in Jesus or to be loyal to Jesus?



It's necessary to unpack what the resurrection meant. The resurrection was the wedding feast, the last and greatest sign and wonder performed to convince people to come out of Egypt, stop serving the world for gains that perished and begin serving God for treasure that lasts. God's People must not only intend to leave Egypt, they must act, like Zachaeus, with a response showing that intent. Israel left Egypt, she believed in her heart. Baptism is then GIVEN, acknowledging the oath of loyalty taker has qualified to take part in the Covenant. God baptised Israel by drawing her out of the water, escaping wrath.



The change in nature is a result of seeing the benefit of serving God to be better than serving the world.

Note how Israel, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira continued to sin, wanted to go back to serving Egypt, as contrasted with Caleb:

Numbers 14:20So the LORD said, “I have pardoned themaccording to your word; 21but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD. 22“Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, 23shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. 24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

Absolutely outstanding. You are more than welcome to critique anything and everything I write.
 
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bcbsr

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You're wrong on every count.

Romans 4:4-6 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation.
In contrast it says, "to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:5,6

Ephesians 2:8,9 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation.
In contrast it says, "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Trusting God to justify you does not save you
Again "to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
And
This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." Is 30:15

It's necessary to unpack what the resurrection meant. The resurrection was the wedding feast
Wrong again. The resurrection was Christ coming back from the dead as proof validating his teachings.

"For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." Acts 17:31

The change in nature is a result of seeing the benefit of serving God to be better than serving the world.
And wrong again.
"to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God." 1John 1:12,13

Regeneration was caused by personal desires or will, but by God alone.

What you have proposed is a rejection of the grace of God and the free gift of eternal life (you would have none of it) and in its place advocate a salvation by works scenario.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
 
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You're wrong on every count.

Wordkeeper said:
Romans 4:4-6 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation.

In contrast it says, "to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:5,6

Israel was called a hired hand. She was to circumcise the male members, to teach that the Messiah would be Jewish, and a man. Her job was to be the bearer of oracles, to help believers identify the Christ. Similarly with the other special laws pointing to Christ.

Romans 3:1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.

In return, Israel would escape the wrath of God. She would never be saved perfectly, become blessings to the world, but faithful believers never went to hell. The Sinaitic Covenant was a pedagogo, wrongfully translated as tutor, but Greek slaves, pedagogos were babysitters, guardians, caring for the children in the place of the parents. So Israel had to WORK for her safekeeping. There were always righteous Jews like Elizabeth and Zacharias, whose existence ensured Israel’s survival, remnant who ensured Israel was never going the way of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Wordkeeper said:
Ephesians 2:8,9 doesn't say that good works are not required for salvation.

In contrast it says, "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Greek scholars are agreed the referent of the neuter demonstrative τοῦτο (‘this’) in Ephesians 2:8 is the preceding neuter phrase “grace through faith (salvation)”, meaning that Gentiles were saved by this type of a savaltion, and even that was a gift, meaning that the inclusion of Gentiles was not because they performed better than Jews. All have sinned, not one (people group) is righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God.

Wordkeeper said:
Trusting God to justify you does not save you

Again "to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

And

This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." Is 30:15

See above.

Wordkeeper said:

It's necessary to unpack what the resurrection meant. The resurrection was the wedding feast

Wrong again. The resurrection was Christ coming back from the dead as proof validating his teachings.

"For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." Acts 17:31

The teaching is that God can be depended upon to defeat obstacles coming between the believer and Rest. The proof is that Christ defeated even death. This was the whole purpose of God causing the calamity of water and food shortage in the wilderness:

Deuteronomy 8:3"He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

Wordkeeper said:
The change in nature is a result of seeing the benefit of serving God to be better than serving the world.

And wrong again.

"to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God." 1John 1:12,13

Regeneration was caused by personal desires or will, but by God alone.

What you have proposed is a rejection of the grace of God and the free gift of eternal life (you would have none of it) and in its place advocate a salvation by works scenario.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Your own text teaches personal will and desire are the factors that cause regeneration. Else why should God reward Caleb for something he was not responsible for:

Numbers 14:20The Lord replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, 22not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times—23not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it. 24But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.
 
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Danthemailman

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I think people should be glorifying Jesus and not themselves.
Amen! :oldthumbsup: Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
 
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Thess said in post #1:

Eternally Life Saving Beliefs....What Beliefs, Exactly, Are Required?

Regarding what beliefs are required for salvation from hell, the Gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13) is that we can be initially saved from hell by believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36; 1 John 2:23), and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

And the Gospel is that we can be ultimately saved from hell if we continue to believe this to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23), and continue to perform good works of faith to the end (Romans 2:6-8; 1 Thessalonians 1:3), and repent from every sin that we commit (Hebrews 10:26-29), and get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16, Romans 6:3-11), and partake of Jesus' divine flesh and blood in the bread and wine of Communion (John 6:53; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30), and forgive everyone for everything (Matthew 6:14-15), and do all that we can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to, and peace with, everyone whom we have ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26), and help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and provide for our families (1 Timothy 5:8), and do not blaspheme God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29), and do not remove words from the book of Revelation (Revelation 22:19), and do not worship the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), or worship his image, or willingly receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-12), but continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:22), and overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26).

Thess said in post #1:

What are we to properly believe that will lead us into a proper submission to Christ?

Regarding submission to Christ, that would involve actually doing what He has given us to do (Luke 6:46).

Jesus Christ gives each Christian his or her own spiritual work to do (Mark 13:34, Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:28-30; 1 Corinthians 12:8-10). And He gives different Christians different amounts of spiritual talents (Matthew 25:15). So it is not possible for all Christians to do the same spiritual work for Jesus, or to accomplish the same amount for Him. And so any one Christian should not (as sometimes happens) judge any other Christian for not doing the same spiritual work that he or she is doing, or for not accomplishing as much as he or she is accomplishing (Romans 14:4). Nor should any Christian think that the spiritual work which Jesus has given him or her is unnecessary and not a real part of the operation of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:14-30). But there is still no room for complacency, because for those Christians who have been given much spiritual talent by God, much will be required of them by God (Luke 12:48b). And for those Christians who have not been given as much spiritual talent by God, they are still expected to accomplish something for Him (Galatians 6:4-5), and not to just sit back and do nothing at all for Him (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

Thess said in post #1:

I will start by stating that Obedience is not the Vessel that grants Salvation, but it is the Letter that Confirms our Identity.

Note that obedience to Christ is required for ultimate salvation (Hebrews 5:9).
 
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JohnB445 said in post #2:

I think people should be glorifying Jesus and not themselves.

Of course.

For it is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of Christian faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it is impossible for people to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions as Christians, apart from God making it possible for Christians to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if Christians continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges the Church at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient Christians some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify Christians (Romans 8:30).
 
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bcbsr said in post #4:

Then salvation is not contingent upon obedience, but rather obedience is an effect of being saved.

Note that that is not necessarily the case with regard to continued obedience unto the end, because salvation does not take away free will.

For example, Matthew 25:26,30 shows that even someone who was a servant of Jesus Christ can ultimately lose his salvation because of unrepentant laziness. One way that a Christian could desire to become lazy without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term), that he continues in it over time until his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12). Love for God means choosing to do what God says to do (1 John 5:3). So if one's love for God grows cold (Matthew 24:12), one will no longer choose to do what God says to do (John 14:24), meaning that one will become lazy in God's eyes (Matthew 25:26,30).

bcbsr said in post #4:

That is salvation is by faith apart from works . . .

That's right initially, but not ultimately.

For initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). But other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

bcbsr said in post #4:

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

1 John 3:9, like 1 John 3:6, 1 John 5:18 and 3 John 1:11b, means that the initial salvation of Christians will be accompanied by them repenting from their sins and not continuing in them, at least for a while. What these verses do not mean is that Christians lose their free will and become robots, unable to ever choose, sometime subsequent to their initial salvation and repentance, to commit a sin without ever repenting from it. For other verses show that it is possible for Christians to do this, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

bcbsr said in post #4:

And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. 1 John 5:3,4

Regarding overcoming, note that any Christian can ultimately have his name blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5). He can ultimately lose his salvation, and be cast into the second death of the lake of fire (Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14-15), if he does not overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:26, Hebrews 6:11-12, Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Matthew 24:9-13).

Revelation 3:5, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 2:13-14, and 1 John 4:4 do not contradict this. For these verses do not give any assurance that every Christian will overcome to the end. All that the 1 John verses give assurance of is that Christians can presently be overcomers. And all that Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, and Revelation 2:26 give assurance of is that those Christian who do overcome to the end will not have their names blotted out of the Book of Life, and will not be cast into the lake of fire.

An example of Christians "overcoming" (Greek: nikao: G3528) (Revelation 3:5) or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2) to the end is found in Revelation 15:2, which refers to Christians who will be willing to be killed by the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), instead of worshipping him to save their mortal lives during his future, worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Christians will be able to spiritually overcome the future Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives unto the death (Revelation 12:11). But it is also possible for Christians to fail to overcome, and so in the end to lose their salvation from hell (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11), if they are fearful (Revelation 21:7-8) of being tortured and killed (Matthew 10:28, Revelation 2:10), to the point where they will wrongly employ their free will to renounce Jesus Christ and His Gospel, to commit apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6), to keep from getting tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13).

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bcbsr said in post #10:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

John 5:24 refers to salvation in the sense of Christians' present, spiritual salvation, instead of the still-future, ultimate redemption of their physical bodies (Romans 8:23-25). John 5:24 means that a Christian will not ultimately come into condemnation, as in an ultimate loss of salvation, so long as he continues to the end to believe (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23, John 15:6), to perform good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, John 15:2a), and to repent from every sin that he commits (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27). All Christians will be judged (2 Corinthians 5:10).

Some Christians, at the judgment of the Church by Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30), at His future, Second Coming (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), will lose their salvation because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Timothy 2:12b). That is why Christians know the "terror" of the coming judgment of the Church by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10-11), why they must remain in fear of being cut off the same as non-Christians if they do not continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46), why they must be careful to work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8).
 
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