2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

LightLoveHope · Oct 31, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Since emotions are NOT stable, they cannot "confirm any position as being stable."

I think you have not understood the role of emotions in life. They are our bodies messenger, so something now, or take it easy, everything is fine. If you watch a baby, the emotional changes are vast. When everything is ok, it is all calm. When the boat is worrying, something is wrong, everything breaks loose and crying starts. This is actually how it works throughout our lives. We learn to filter out some stimuli, and calm down our responses, and avoid things that upset us, but most of the time we spend trying to get it all stable.

When someone close to you dies, you suddenly realise how what you assume was solid has just lost its bottom, and you are devastated. Today people can go into their 30's and experience no real loss, so this can be a great shock. It used to be quite common, a death took people often, and there was no certainty of living into old age.

So to talk then about trauma, and shock was not unusual, everyone had gone through coping with great loss. So it was unusual to meet non emotional people, it was more common to meet people with trauma and great trials just to survive. Our western society is more child like and isolated, without much emotional awareness because of this spoilt cocoon people live in.

I on the other hand have lost people, had to deal with great emotional pain and ups and downs, so it is something I know is core to our humanity and our walk in Jesus. If you want to walk closer to our King, learn to listen to yourself and others, to feel their pain, their fear and the peace of God that passes understanding.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 31, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Everything you experience is actually defined by your mind and nothing else.

The only truth in existence is found in God's Word. The best place to be is in the truth.

It is not possible to experience anything other than through our own senses.

Are you not aware that our senses lie to us.

And our senses are filtered by our brains, to create a perception of reality.

Scripture IS reality. That's where I am.

This is the world we live in and how we perceive it.
If you cannot accept this framework, then there is little to talk about because this is the truth of our existance.

What I cannot accept is your subjective orientation. There is no truth in that. Which you've demonstrated.

And if you claim to follow Jesus who is the truth, you should be able to accept the limitations of our perception and how "truth" as we experience it is taken by faith in our perceptions. It is why hallucinations created by ones mind are indistinguishable from the real world by the person experiencing them.

And that is the very problem of subjectivity. Hallucinations are not real. They are lies. And objectivity demolishes hallucinations.

I notice you want to be so definate and complete in your language but you simply do not know what are the actual limitations of how we live and function in this world.

I've notice that you avoid definitions and objective truth. Nor do you know the actual limitations of your own subjectivity.

You call people idiots who for whatever reason the Lord rebuked me for judging.

From all the descriptions of what they believed and acted, they sure weren't in line with Scripture. That's objective reality. I would follow the biblical rules, as outlined in 2 Thess 3:14,15-
14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.
15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

I describe the people you described to me as "idiots" because that is exactly the way they act and think.

I am a judge of no one, He is the Lord.

How come you've made so many (false) judgments about me?

If you have not learnt this limitation on our lives, what have you learnt in Jesus?

Of course I'm aware of the human limitations of this life. All objective people are aware of this. I'm not at all sure about subjective people.

And I've learned from Jesus all about grace, love and mercy.

We are here to be lights in the darkness, to show the hope we have in Christ and the wonder of His work in our lives.

In order to be lights in the darkness requires objective truth, not subjectivity.

Again you seem to not see this, rather you would condemn me as spreading satans lies.

When one's opinion about a subject is in direct opposition to what Jesus plainly taught, what else can it be called?

A strange believer you are.

Coming from a subjective person who has no objective truth. lol

FreeGrace2 · Oct 31, 2018

I said:
"Objectivity is clear thinking about facts."

LightLoveHope said:
Your facts are you are an immortal. If you are immortal, why are you still living here, surely it would be better to be somewhere else?

Just more subjective unreality. Your question is ludicrous. And you STILL don't have any idea what my "facts" are.

As an immortal can you create things ex-nihilo.

Only Creator God creates out of nothing. That's the facts. Objective reality.

I have met guys who claim they can, and go out of body to the 3rd heaven.

More subjective idiots, it seems. What drug were they taking?

I mean they have an eternal spirit now so anything is possible, meeting with Moses, Elijah, getting direct revelation from God. I mean, why even listen to scripture if you have the immortal hot line..........

I wonder why am even bothering to read this drivel.

And before you dismiss them, there are no boundaries in Jesus, so you can do anything, give future readings of peoples future because you can tap into the prophetic future, and pass on messages from saints who want to encourage their church brothers and sisters.

I can't tell if you are now speaking for yourself or still going on about the idiots that you like to bring up.

I have seen these immortal sons of God doing this. This is all the fruit of the gnostic theology.

An idiot theology. That is objective reality.

And no matter how looney they are, God must be with them, because they are saved and can never loose this promise.

No, the Bible says they are enemies of God. And all of them will experience God's discipline. In God's own timing.

If you claim they were never saved, how do you know, because your own theology denies you can tell or even exclude these immortal brethren from the Kingdom.

I never judge the status of others regarding their salvation. I only know the objective reality that the Bible states: those who believe possess eternal life and shall never perish. All the rest is up to God alone.

To exclude them, would show yourself are an unbeliever, which also is impossible as an immortal. Boy it gets very confusing around here, lol.

No, it's just that you are very confused. That's what subjectivity will get you.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 31, 2018

I said:
"Since emotions are NOT stable, they cannot "confirm any position as being stable.""

LightLoveHope said:
I think you have not understood the role of emotions in life.

I think you have overblown the role of emotions in life.

Your icon info indicates that you are Baptist but you sound much more like a Pentecostal.

They are our bodies messenger, so something now, or take it easy, everything is fine.

No, our brains (thoughts) are our messengers that tell us things.

Emotions do not think. Think of "mob rule". They are ruled by emotions and not thought.

If you watch a baby, the emotional changes are vast.

No thank you. I'll take my cues from objective reality and rational thought.

When everything is ok, it is all calm. When the boat is worrying, something is wrong, everything breaks loose and crying starts.

This is exactly what's wrong with emotionalism. Can't handle pressures and challenges. The Bible teaches how to remain calm and at peace (expression of faith) in the worst of storms.

This is actually how it works throughout our lives.

Only for those whose orientation is subjective. Not for those grounded in objective reality.

We learn to filter out some stimuli, and calm down our responses, and avoid things that upset us, but most of the time we spend trying to get it all stable.

How's that working about for you? I remain calm in the knowledge of the fact that God is in control, that everything that comes to me has been permitted by God, and that He has a plan for my life. My job is to align with God's plan, and that requires objective truth and reality and NO EMOTIONS.

When someone close to you dies, you suddenly realise how what you assume was solid has just lost its bottom, and you are devastated.

No I'm not. I fully understand that every human will die. It's a fact (objective reality) of life. When those I love die, yes, I grieve their loss, but I know the believers are safe in heaven. Which is far better than anything in this life.

I on the other hand have lost people, had to deal with great emotional pain and ups and downs, so it is something I know is core to our humanity and our walk in Jesus.

Aren't you aware of what the Bible says about losing a loved one?

1 Thess 4:13 - Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

If you want to walk closer to our King, learn to listen to yourself and others, to feel their pain, their fear and the peace of God that passes understanding.

No thanks. I much prefer to listen to the King Himself, believe all that He says.

And there is no peace of God that passes understanding in the subjective moaning and groaning of others.

Gr8Grace · Oct 31, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
A strange believer you are.

Sad, that this is true in today's world. Bible Doctrine IS strange to most believers.......But really Peter.......there have been a few of us(Grace believers) that have went round about with you many times. So it isn't 'strange' to you.....It's just REJECTED by you.

Dorothy Mae · Oct 31, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Well then, please pay attention, because I've explained it to you frequently.

Eternal life is given to those who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, and there are NO (that means zero) verses about losing eternal life.

Pretty simple, actually.

Your sentence needs work as you put in a non word and I have no idea what your point is.

What you've failed to do is provide any verse that says that eternal life CAN be lost.

I've proven my position with verses that DO SAY what I believe, but you haven't.

FreeGrace2, can't remember if I have asked you this. Do you personally need to love God to go to Heaven? Is that a commandment that is binding on you?

Dorothy Mae · Oct 31, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I am direct and straight forward.

Your posts are rude against the poster, not the views.

Your views are unbiblical, which I have shown. And you don't quote any Scripture that supports your claims.

"Many shall fall away from the FAITH and betray many." Jesus own words. Christians will fall away from the faith. What more do you need?

I've already dispelled that myth. So you can cease any time.

Do you have to obey the command to love God and man or is this an optional extra if you feel like it on particular days? Let us see if you have "dispelled" it.

Please provide any verse that says that going to heaven depends on how one treats others. That's a new one to me.

Read Revelation 12 about the judgement where the deeds done in the body are read and a man is judged by them. Having faith or not faith in Jesus is not mentioned. We shall all be judged by the deeds done in the body.

There is the parable about the sheep and the goats. Were the sheep allowed to enter into Heaven based on their believing they were eternal secure or believing anything in particular? Was that what Jesus said. This is new because you do not read the whole Bible.

Are you not aware that everyone is free to do whatever? That's basically what Paul said in Romans 6. We choose which master we obey. But we're supposed to choose the right one.

Yes, I know that because I read the whole Bible. I also look around and inside and see that everyone is free (within obvious limits) to do whatever. I did not need to read Romans to know this. Stores are full of choices because of this fact.

Gr8Grace · Oct 31, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
FreeGrace2, can't remember if I have asked you this. Do you personally need to love God to go to Heaven? Is that a commandment that is binding on you?

I know it wasn't addressed to me......BUT, Why didn't Paul tell the jailer," Personally love the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved...?"

There ain't a person in the world that can 'love' God apart from being saved. Saved first, Indwelt with the Holy Spirit and then and ONLY then can we 'love' as the bible describes.

Someone that is not saved cannot love. They may have emotional, feelings and worldly 'love.' But not biblical love.

And to be direct with your question..... NO. We do not need to love God to be saved. Many believers love their religion and what THEY are doing for God and have COMPLETELY forgot about His love for them and what HE did for them.

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
No, our brains (thoughts) are our messengers that tell us things.
Emotions do not think. Think of "mob rule". They are ruled by emotions and not thought.

Knowledge tells us things. Thoughts are how we order knowledge, how we traverse the ideas which form a structure.

Emotions are summaries, conclusions, indicators of trouble or security.
How do you know 1 + 1 = 2.
Only by repetition. You go through the process and agree that you have found no problem with the process so it is true. You repeat this process to confirm no mistake. Emotions summarise ones conclusion. Most of our lives are operated on automatic mode, where a given situation creates ones preset response. It is fast and serves us well. It has been studied how much we live like this, 95%+ of the time. To go outside this and formulate a new approach is 5 times or so slower. It is our emotions that signal problems, cause us to kick in thought processes and reassess what is going on.

In the Lord our emotions are reprogrammed based on an open heart, humble, contrite and ready to learn and explore, open, listening.

Mob rule is kicking in anger and emotional overload, so the fight or flight response starts working. Once kicked in and given control, emotions drive decisions alone. Normally emotions tell us its ok we can carry on doing what we are doing.

So the mob rule issue, demonstrates my point. Emotions are just indicators, or emergency overrides, but they do matter. They are associated with who we are and what we are. They tell us what is going on internally and must be listened to, and if possible resolved. It is this area which many totally ignore and shut the Lord out of the most important issue in our lives, cleaning up our hearts, establishing love and truth as the core of our being. Without this we are just conflicted messes who have little eternal use. This is why the sermon on the mount is so crucial. To obey starts to resolve and lay out the foundations of good loving relationships based on who God is and who we are. And it is only possible because love has broken in through the cross and repentance, and we are willing to take the risk, and let God in, to heal the hurts, resolve our history and areas we refuse to deal with.

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
No thank you. I'll take my cues from objective reality and rational thought.

Here is the problem. You are talking like we are just thought.
If we are just thought, then God is just an idea, a framework, a logical conclusion with no edges or compromise, no mercy, no compassion, no joy, no sadness, no sacrifice, no care, no love, no involvement, no desire to help the weak or needy.

The cross which is 100% an emotional, a visseral statement of love, sacrifice, pain, forgiveness, hope, victory. It is totally illogical, unjust, overwhelmingly hopeful, impossible, brutal.

What are we called to live like

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Colossians 3:12-14

What is so hypocritical is to claim one believes in Gods grace but actually live as if grace does not exist.

The fruit of error is to produce in peoples lives the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

God is a God of emotion, of passion, of care, of anger, of forgiveness, of love.

It seems you have rejected the heart of God.
So I ask you, do you actually know Him?

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

Gr8Grace said:
Sad, that this is true in today's world. Bible Doctrine IS strange to most believers.......But really Peter.......there have been a few of us(Grace believers) that have went round about with you many times. So it isn't 'strange' to you.....It's just REJECTED by you.

Hi Gr8Grace,

I believe in Gods grace, it is called the cross, the infinite statement of His love for mankind and the hope of turning mortal man into an eternal being like Jesus.

But there are conditions, which depend on believers recognising the amount of work that must be done in their lives, literally from top to bottom, born again, starting anew, like a child, relearning everything, and becoming someone different, a new identity, a new way of being, open, loving, founded on eternity, walking in grace, an ambassador of Christ, Christs body on earth.

Believers who are immortal sinners, are a farce, a statement of defeat to sin, enslavement to their passions and hypocracy, with the hope Jesus neither sees the sin or rejects the compromise.
Staying an evil doer is literally inviting judgement on ones soul. One openly admits they do not listen to Jesus, do not obey Him or seek His will or ways, and condemn those who do follow and obey Him.

A man of faith knows their struggles, but knows Christ will bring them victory, through His Spirit and learning how to walk in His love. An unbeliever has given up and believes staying a sinner is salvation because they have been forgiven no matter where they are going or what they do.

A long walk is one step at a time, and one forward seems not much compared to going back, but over time, the journey is completed. The difference is the direction of travel, and not giving up.
Jesus can do nothing with those who have given up, and they will have nothing but a broken life on judgement day. So I call those to repent of their sins, to humble themselves and commit themselves to follow, obey and have faith in Jesus and the cross. For this alone is the way of salvation.

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

I am a grace believer.

I believe God is love, and the cross is His statement of love and victory over sin and death, if we can grasp and become one with Him in thought, heart, strength, and deed.

Without resolving our hearts it is impossible, which is no wonder why so many believers find walking in the Spirit impossible. You cannot defend your heart and leave it in the world with its history of pain and defence and expect to know the King and walk like Him. Our hope comes from knowing openness, honesty, repentance, humbleness, service is everything, empowered by the cross and the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

Now these appear to be just words. You begin to make them real by gifts of love given to all, breaking through hurt, revenge, bitterness, hatred, lust, envy and all the things that stop sharing. And why can you, because you know you are loved, you know you have an eternal home, you know there is nothing that can separate you from the King of Kings.

People lie so easily to themselves and to me. They reject these words, because they desire to preserve themselves and what they have achieved, their life. But by doing so they lose the very life they desire to protect. It is this risk, this openness which is so vulnerable and makes me shake and tremble, even though I know my King. Jesus stands at the door and knocks, open up to Him and He will come and eat with you, Amen, Praise the Lord, Halleluyah, thank you Jesus.

JLB777 · Nov 1, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, finally, an answer. Thanks.

I have stated this position countless times to you on every forum we have discussed this topic.

Somehow you seem to just ignore it and go back to quoting scripture references without the scripture itself.

JLB

JLB777 · Nov 1, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Now that you acknowledge and agree that WHEN a person is born again, which means WHEN they believe in Christ, they receive the gift of eternal life.

Notice that those are not my words, but yours.

Here is my words.

When a person is born again, they have the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus joined to their spirit and are now connected to the eternal life that is only found in Christ.

The completion of the process will occur when He comes and we come forth in the resurrection of life.

This occurs at His coming.

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

Luke says it this way -

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35

This is why it’s called the hope of eternal life.

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:5-7

JLB

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

"If you want to walk closer to our King, learn to listen to yourself and others, to feel their pain, their fear and the peace of God that passes understanding."

FreeGrace2 said:
No thanks. I much prefer to listen to the King Himself, believe all that He says.

Free, I wonder at who you follow.
Jesus wept with Mary over Lazaruses death. He wept despite knowing Lazarus would rise again at His command. He wept because He empathised with Mary and Martha at the loss of their brother. He felt their pain, their loss. God cares this much about how we feel.

Jesus calls us to be like Him.
Paul puts it like this

Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Rom 12:15

Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Gal 6:2

God calls us to love people as He loved us.

And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Matt 10:30-31

You are closed and shut off it appears. God is open, caring, loving, considerate, emotional.
Jesus wept over Jerusalem,

As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it
and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."
Luke 19:41-44

A hard heart knows nothing of these things, and assumes everyone else is like them. It is the problem of being in our own subjective world, in which we filter out any other perspectives because we say to ourselves, they are lying.

And the reason why scripture does not echo these points to the reader, because they are seen only when their hearts respond, but a hard heart does not, so the words cannot mean something they do not experience. Scripture is this strange mirror, infinitely deep, but only for those who have delved those parts to see it reflected there.

LightLoveHope · Nov 1, 2018

Gr8Grace said:
Sad, that this is true in today's world. Bible Doctrine IS strange to most believers.......But really Peter.......there have been a few of us(Grace believers) that have went round about with you many times. So it isn't 'strange' to you.....It's just REJECTED by you.

Thank you for recognising I have rejected sinners immortality.
Listen to Jesus

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life
Rev 21:27

This is my challenge to immortal sinners. If you are a sinner who is now immortal which heaven are you going to? It is not the one Jesus is talking about, because your sin bans you from this.

The lie you have bought is God does not see your sin, only Jesus's blood, but the truth should be Jesus does not see your sin, because you have been washed clean, not covered up.

We are not talking here OCD obedience, "Did Jesus ask me to leave the house now? If I deny this prompting am I in sin or not?"

Jesus is about open hearts, honesty, working with ones desires and seeing righteous fulfilment of our needs. People can cope with almost anything, but find it very hard when their neighbour has something more than they have. Learning to value themselves, the gifting one is given, and value others is the hard road.

Immortal sinners have never even tried open heart walking in repentance and brokenness, which is why they do not believe there is any alternative. If they listen to the enemy who says they are forever defeated, they will claim these words are the enemies, but the cross should testify that this is not so.

Peter said this
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:14-16

If Peter could write this and live, so can we. Look at his struggles and issues, at different points in his life. This issue is not minor, but an eternal one, and ones whole communion and meeting the Lord rests upon its realisation.

Have you really met the Son of God, who died upon the cross to bring you Life, Holiness, maturity, love, fullness, victory, freedom? Or has it always be trying rather than opening and honest vulnerability and pain. It sounds like some believers here have not, and think eternity is just an intellectual assent, a wink and a nod and you are in. The thief on the cross, was about to die, he honestly saw his sin, his deserving death and curses, yet Jesus, innocent, looking at him and giving love despite unjust condemnation, the thief declared his faith and asked Jesus to remember him. That is us, doomed and judged, but Jesus is our hope, with our vulnerability laid bare. But we have to see it to grasp it for it to become real. How many see the truth?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
FreeGrace2, can't remember if I have asked you this. Do you personally need to love God to go to Heaven?

In order to go to heaven, one MUST POSSESS eternal life. That is received on the basis of full trust in Jesus Christ apart from anything else.

Is that a commandment that is binding on you?

The command to love God is for believers. And, yes, it is binding on me.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2018

I said:
"Your views are unbiblical, which I have shown. And you don't quote any Scripture that supports your claims."

Dorothy Mae said:
"Many shall fall away from the FAITH and betray many." Jesus own words. Christians will fall away from the faith. What more do you need?

Can you not discern the huge difference between falling away from the faith, which the Scriptures actually state clearly, and falling away from salvation, which isn't mentioned in Scripture by any combination of words?

Do you have to obey the command to love God and man or is this an optional extra if you feel like it on particular days? Let us see if you have "dispelled" it.

The command to love God is for ALL believers, who already, on the basis of their faith, have received the gift of eternal life, and shall never perish. So the command isn't a condition on entering heaven. But commanded for all believers.

Read Revelation 12 about the judgement where the deeds done in the body are read and a man is judged by them. Having faith or not faith in Jesus is not mentioned. We shall all be judged by the deeds done in the body.

I think you meant Rev 20, not 12. That is the Great White Throne Judgment. And yes, everyone, both believer and unbeliever, will be judged according to their deeds.

The judgment for believers is found in 2 Cor 5:10, and determines one's reward, or loss of reward, and based on what they have done.

The judgment for unbelievers is found in Rev 20:11-15 and determines how "bearable" the lake of fire will be, as Jesus clearly taught in:
Matt 10:15, 11:22, 24
Luke 10:12, 14

There is the parable about the sheep and the goats. Were the sheep allowed to enter into Heaven based on their believing they were eternal secure or believing anything in particular? Was that what Jesus said.

Thanks for not including the citation. But never mind, I'll go look up the passage.
<pause>

Ok, Matt 25-
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

I think it is clear from v.32-34 that God is separating those who ARE believers from those who AREN'T believers. So your theory is in error.

Nothing either group did or didn't do determines their ultimate destination, as you surmise. And the language doesn't permit such a view.

This is new because you do not read the whole Bible.

I've done that, and no, this is not new. More than that, I keep reading through the NT MONTHLY for well over a decade.

Yes, I know that because I read the whole Bible.

Then how come you don't believe that every recipient of eternal life shall never perish, which is just another way of expressing eternal security from the moment of faith in Christ?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Knowledge tells us things. Thoughts are how we order knowledge, how we traverse the ideas which form a structure.

My point.

Emotions are summaries, conclusions, indicators of trouble or security.

No they aren't any of these things. It takes THOUGHT, or knowledge to know these things. Emotions DON'T THINK. They are only FEELINGS. Not thoughts.

How do you know 1 + 1 = 2.

Because of knowledge. Not feelings.

Only by repetition.

Not necessarily. But surely NOT by emotions.

You go through the process and agree that you have found no problem with the process so it is true. You repeat this process to confirm no mistake. Emotions summarise ones conclusion.

Where did you get your information? Because it FEELS right to you? Well, emotions NEVER summarize any kind of conclusion, because emotions only feel, they NEVER think.

In the Lord our emotions are reprogrammed based on an open heart, humble, contrite and ready to learn and explore, open, listening.

I'll bet you have no Scripture to share that taught you this, right? Because all this is nothing more than your emotions emoting.

Mob rule is kicking in anger and emotional overload, so the fight or flight response starts working.

Making my point that emotions don't think. No more than mob rule thinks.

Once kicked in and given control, emotions drive decisions alone.

Again, because of NO THINKING.

Normally emotions tell us its ok we can carry on doing what we are doing.

It seems rather clear to me that you've horribly confused emotions with one's conscience. We THINK from our conscience. We don't THINK from our emotions.

So the mob rule issue, demonstrates my point.

No, it proves my point that emotions DO NOT THINK.

Emotions are just indicators, or emergency overrides, but they do matter.

Emotions are dangerous because they cannot think or be rational. That comes from one's conscience. One can "feel right" about something and be totally wrong nonetheless.

Those who are ruled by their emotions are highly unstable people. That makes them dangerous.

One good example is the American Democrat party. Because Trump won the election, their emotions have taken over and they have ceased to use their brains for thinking. All they do is emote, and none of it is good. It's all evil.

They are associated with who we are and what we are.

Wrong again. What is associated with who and what we are is from the mind, where one thinks.

They tell us what is going on internally and must be listened to, and if possible resolved.

What you are describing is thinking, which the emotions are INCAPABLE of doing.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 1, 2018

I said:
"No thank you. I'll take my cues from objective reality and rational thought."

LightLoveHope said:
Here is the problem. You are talking like we are just thought.

What do you have against objective reality? By that, I mean FACTS. Distinguished from feelings.

And the problem is not me, but your own views. You talk like we are just emotions, or that emotions are vastly more important than thoughts or objective reality.

If we are just thought, then God is just an idea, a framework, a logical conclusion with no edges or compromise, no mercy, no compassion, no joy, no sadness, no sacrifice, no care, no love, no involvement, no desire to help the weak or needy.

I already made clear what the emotions are for, so you can stop this phony charge that I have no emotions.

btw, do you really think God 'compromises' anything? Where would you get that idea?

The cross which is 100% an emotional, a visseral statement of love, sacrifice, pain, forgiveness, hope, victory. It is totally illogical, unjust, overwhelmingly hopeful, impossible, brutal.

Obviously you have no idea. The cross (death of the Messiah on behalf of the entire human race) was a PLAN (takes thought and organization) from God. All you can see, though, are emotions, but no thought or objective reality.

Yes, Jesus went to the cross in an action of love. But remember 1 Cor 13. Love is NOT an emotion, but an action. An action of patience and kindness.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

Of these 9 things, only 1 is an emotion; joy.

God is a God of emotion, of passion, of care, of anger, of forgiveness, of love.

Do you really not know about God's justice? Which is the basis for why Jesus went to the cross?

It seems you have rejected the heart of God.

It seems you have rejected your brain.

So I ask you, do you actually know Him?

From all you've posted, I know Him FAR BETTER than you do at the present time.

You're so tied up in your emotions/feelings, that barely a thought can get through.

I do feel sorry (an emotion) for you. It must be a terrible burden.

2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

Jesus leads us to life

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