Stringfellow_Hawke
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Should we sell our possessions to gain eternal life?
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The other thing to consider is the PRACTICALITY of preparation of the mental state and settling your affairs in preparation for fleeing.
Jesus and The Apostles were preparing his followers to be driven and persecuted from place to place. The destruction of THE ENTIRE holy land was only 40 years after Jesus..... The actual people following Jesus and The Apostles had to physically flee from the actual destruction coming to them during their lives.....
But the record stands that Christians did just that.. They were prepared to flee - and when The Roman Legions arrived to destroy the whole place - the remaining Christians that hadn’t already been driven out left as Jesus had commanded....
Selling all your earthly possessions prepares you to leave at a moment’s notice. Dealing with the separation of family commitments prepares you to leave at a moment’s notice.... You can’t do that if you have family land, holdings, servants, livestock, and the like. You can’t do that if you can’t bear the idea of leaving your family behind. All that stuff ties you down to one place or one region...
And let’s face it - if you have useful skills, abilities, talents, business acumen, morals, and ethics - those will come with you and you can use them wherever you end up...
Jesus and The Apostles were preparing his followers to be driven and persecuted from place to place. The destruction of THE ENTIRE holy land was only 40 years after Jesus..... The actual people following Jesus and The Apostles had to physically flee from the actual destruction coming to them during their lives.....
But the record stands that Christians did just that.. They were prepared to flee - and when The Roman Legions arrived to destroy the whole place - the remaining Christians that hadn’t already been driven out left as Jesus had commanded....
Selling all your earthly possessions prepares you to leave at a moment’s notice. Dealing with the separation of family commitments prepares you to leave at a moment’s notice.... You can’t do that if you have family land, holdings, servants, livestock, and the like. You can’t do that if you can’t bear the idea of leaving your family behind. All that stuff ties you down to one place or one region...
And let’s face it - if you have useful skills, abilities, talents, business acumen, morals, and ethics - those will come with you and you can use them wherever you end up...
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This topic always makes me feel like I come up way short in my ‘giving responsibility.’ And, that particular emotion is taken advantage of quite a bit here in the U.S. Re-distribution has escalated far beyond giving a helping hand to the truly needy. There is no question that as Christians we are to help those who have fallen on hard times (and we should want to), but I’m afraid it has went way beyond the scriptural intent, even to the expectation of total and perpetual provisions.
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Stringfellow_Hawke
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You have to laugh at the ones on here who just insist on themselves all the time.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
I was clear in my post, it doesn't include things you need to make money with or count as basic needs.
The disciples kept their boat they use to fish. Some returned to their homes. Today, many jobs involve a computer and using the internet. So keeping a computer and internet would help to keep proficient with those devices.
I'm running an online business as my only source of income so internet and computer is a necessity to me.
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maybe not a ferrari but what about a honda, or a toyota? western culture loves it's excess and luxury, to such degrees that we don't even recognize what excess and luxury is.
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MartyF
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You don’t need the internet to make money. Billions of people go without it.
But still you’re claiming that others “who are not you” and “who do not “need” it” should go without internet or go to hell?
Having a Ferrarri is ok as long as I use it as flashy wealth in my “needs” to impress my clients for my business? A mansion is fine as long as I use it in my “needs” to entertain business guests?
You do not “need” the internet for your job or anything else. You can get a job flipping hamburgers or cleaning dishes and toilets. Maybe you are too conceited to take one of these jobs? Lots of people meet their needs this way. Maybe you have more “needs” than they? Are your “needs”, needs or luxuries to make your life easier. Luxuries you would rather not have to go without. So, you get more money another way to pay for the things you want.
I know that many people here were born rich and won’t admit it, but people do live without beds and chairs. These are, in fact, luxuries. Or are these “luxuries” now “needs”?
Is the guy who cleans toilets going to hell because he bought a cheap internet connection? He’s only using it as a luxury to make his life more enjoyable. He doesn’t need it. His whole family is dead. He doesn’t need to “learn computers”. His job ain’t going nowhere. He must be going to hell. Right?
Are you understanding how conceited this point of view is? What I have are “needs”! What people with more money than I do have are “luxuries”. They’re going to hell. I’m going to heaven.
I’m hoping you can change your point of view and understand better that luxuries are not evil. Neither are Ferrari’s. Even if I can’t afford one.
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Kaon
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It is a start.
If everyone sold their possessions and gave to the poor, then everyone would have their needs met. Greed and pride keep a separation between the poor and rich. Besides, these trinkets in this realm aren't really anything - even if you don't believe in God. They are a testament to our fear of our mortality - that we would hold on to such insignificant things anyway.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
Ironically, the value of a Honda and Toyota is well met by its reliability and low cost maintenance.
A bit more expensive than local brands. But if you keep a Honda or Toyota for a long time, you will actually save more money than having cheaper local brands.
Obviously, a large and powerful SUV of any brand would be over the top if you only commute around the city. In fact there are plenty of simpler and economical options for more rugged or offroad applications, like a basic, diesel pickup truck.
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MartyF
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For me, the article link is dead.
Everyone seems to be missing this passage.
Matthew 4:18-22 NLT
[18] One day as Jesus was walking along the shore of the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers-Simon, also called Peter, and Andrew-throwing a net into the water, for they fished for a living. [19] Jesus called out to them, "Come, follow me, and I will show you how to fish for people!" [20] And they left their nets at once and followed him. [21] A little farther up the shore he saw two other brothers, James and John, sitting in a boat with their father, Zebedee, repairing their nets. And he called them to come, too. [22] They immediately followed him, leaving the boat and their father behind.
At the time Jesus was calling his disciples to leave everything, including their very jobs and the equipment needed to make a living and follow him. They didn’t make sure the nets were folded first. They didn’t ask their parent’s permission first or find someone to help their father while they were away. They left immediately and followed him.
This is Jesus, however. Not my local pastor. And definitely not Karl Marx.
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Kaon
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I read the Communist Manifesto; I am not quoting Mark.
But, let's get into why communism fails, and Capitalism thrives - even under the guise of its more governmentally - dependent predecessor economies.
Communism fails because there is no perfect leader here yet (we killed Him anyway), and humans are full of pride, greed and envy. Communism is the perfect system for a community of entities that have adequate cooperative attributes. Since the OP had to be brought up, and since Christ had to make an example teaching addressing the same content, it shouldn't be hard to realize humanity could never pull off one of the most basic systems of cooperation.
Capitalism, however, depends on human degeneracy like greed in order to thrive. It depends on class separation and carnality so that the individual puts all focus on making capital (and, not cooperation). A capitalist only cares about more capital. Capitalism also deluded it's lower-level constituents to assume the goal is to be full of capital - by any means. Capital becomes the god of them - even in its morphology into other "less abrasive" systems.
Humans in our poor state today can only WISH a communist society could work, because it would mean humans can cooperate. But, the idea that communism = bad speaks more to the insatiable carnality within us - most of us just don't realize it.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
It's in the book of Acts I think.
Any economic system run by greedy men is bound to fail whether it's Socialist or Capitalist. It's only a matter of time. Capitalist and even ancient basic commerce crash periodically.
This is why in the Old Testament of the Bible, commerce is reset periodically by redistributing wealth - this is much better than a planned or unplanned economic crash.
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MartyF
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You are definitely right there. You are not quoting Mark. I am not suprised that you read the Communist Manifesto.
Capitalism depends on the freedom to exchange or give away goods and keep the results of one’s labors.
Communism fails because it depends on slavery. It requires one to muzzle the ox.
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Kaon
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Ok.
That is the deceptive myth the plebs are told so that they can continue producing the foundation of the pyramid scheme called Capitalism.
No one gives anything away in capitalism without an exchange of capital. There is no free lunch in capitalism.
Communism needs a perfect leader, and honorable, cooperative citizens to keep the community going. That doesnt exist today. Capitalism actually depends on slaves or indentured servitude (employement) to create a FAKE DEBT system so that the entire system can keep going.
The money is fake, or virtual in capitalism.
Trade is an illusion in capitalism.
Value is variable and subjective in capitalism.
Capitalism is a farce of a system that depends on degeneracy. It depends on plebs to flow the system and pledge nationalist oaths to keep the system going.
Capitalism is a romanticism born out of the Renaissance - when the paradigm shifted to an allusion of individual sovereignty vs. Noble subjectivity.
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MartyF
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Nope. It isn’t there.
Are you thinking of this?
Acts 4:32-37 NLT
[32] All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. [33] The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God's great blessing was upon them all. [34] There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them [35] and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need. [36] For instance, there was Joseph, the one the apostles nicknamed Barnabas (which means "Son of Encouragement"). He was from the tribe of Levi and came from the island of Cyprus. [37] He sold a field he owned and brought the money to the apostles.
It explained how the apostles were financed. It does not say “If everyone sold their possessions and gave to the poor, then everyone would have their needs met.”
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