Feinstein on Kavanaugh accusations: I don’t know if ‘everything is truthful'

LivingWordUnity said:

Dems are afraid that Kavanaugh will take away their abortions.

That's what the Dems stand to gain from his nomination being borked.

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There's more to it than that. Any right wing ideologue nominated to the court by this administration would be expected to be hostile to Roe v. Wade and try to promote the rest of the Christian Right's sexual agenda. In this case there is more to it than that. In particular, Kavanaugh has promoted the notion that the President should be immune from any kind of legal investigation. That's why he was nominated rather than someone else.

LivingWordUnity said:

View attachment 241559

"I can't say everything's truthful. I don't know."

- Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)

See: The Hill - 18 Sep 2018

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Thanks for letting us know she was honest about the situation.

Afra said:

No, that is not what "advise and consent" means. Here are what advise and consent mean:

Advise: to give (someone) a recommendation about what should be done

Consent: to give assent or approval​

Source: Merriam Webster Dictionary: Definition of ADVISE
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And that is precisely what the Senate is doing.

And if the FBI thought that this was worthy of investigation, they would be investigating it. The FBI is independent. You know what the FBI should be doing better than the FBI director and its other employees? This is news to me.

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Assent and approval cannot be given if we don't know all the facts. This proves my point: Republicans are doing the barest possible and arguing against investigation (as you are) so that they go into the confirmation process not having the knowledge they need to do their job.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

Assent and approval cannot be given if we don't know all the facts.

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No, this is false.

This proves my point: Republicans are doing the barest possible and arguing against investigation (as you are) so that they go into the confirmation process not having the knowledge they need to do their job.

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No, that is false.

And let's not pretend here. You will never be satisfied no matter what the Republicans or anyone else does, because you simply do not want to see him on the court. You already admitted that you want to keep him off the court, regardless of what facts come out.

Ringo84 said:

Republicans are doing the barest possible and arguing against investigation

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Republicans are the ones making every possible accommodation for her to testify.

Speedwell said:

Any right wing ideologue nominated to the court by this administration would be expected to be hostile to Roe v. Wade

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Swing and a miss, nice try though. Kavanaugh is an "originalist". Originalism is a way to interpret the constitution. He believes in a strict, textual interpretation of the constitution. Revisionists want to rewrite the constitution just the same way that they want to rewrite history. The Liberals have turned into obstructionists because they want a revisionist liberal appointed to the court. Not a conservative. So they are willing to do anything to stop Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh personal opinions do not matter. What counts is the Constitution. The liberals want to turn the Constitution into toilet paper to serve their agenda.

AkidoMaster said:

Republicans are the ones making every possible accommodation for her to testify.

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And calling a single witness, Kavanaugh himself, while failing to start an investigation or call any other corroborating witnesses.
Ringo

Afra said:

No, this is false.

No, that is false.

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OK....proof?

And let's not pretend here. You will never be satisfied no matter what the Republicans or anyone else does, because you simply do not want to see him on the court. You already admitted that you want to keep him off the court, regardless of what facts come out.

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You seem to think you know an awful lot about what I think and what will satisfy me. I didn't realize you were psychic.

My arguments have bee crystal clear and have not changed since this first broke: regardless of how I feel about Kavanaugh and his judicial philosophy, a sexual assault charge is serious and should be taken seriously. That means it should be investigated thoroughly by law enforcement. If you were more confident of your candidate's innocence, you would not be trying out of desperation to make this more about me than about Kavanaugh and his accuser.
Ringo

joshua 1 9 said:

Swing and a miss, nice try though. Kavanaugh is an "originalist". Originalism is a way to interpret the constitution. He believes in a strict, textual interpretation of the constitution. Revisionists want to rewrite the constitution just the same way that they want to rewrite history. The Liberals have turned into obstructionists because they want a revisionist liberal appointed to the court. Not a conservative. So they are willing to do anything to stop Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh personal opinions do not matter. What counts is the Constitution. The liberals want to turn the Constitution into toilet paper to serve their agenda.

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I would certainly favor a genuine originalist over Kavanaugh, who is nothing but a hack selected to pander to the agenda of the Christian Right.

Ringo84 said:

OK....proof?

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Assent and approval can be given if we do not know all of the facts. We will never know what happened in that room because neither one us was there, nor were any of the senators there. Only the Lord Almighty knows all of the facts, and that is true with respect to this confirmation and every confirmation in history. So your first statement is false.

As for your second statement, the Senate could do less than what they have agreed to do, so your second statement is also false.

My arguments have bee crystal clear and have not changed since this first broke: regardless of how I feel about Kavanaugh and his judicial philosophy, a sexual assault charge is serious and should be taken seriously.

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I agree that the charge is serious and should be taken seriously. It is being taken seriously. That is why they delayed the vote to Monday, and then delayed it again when she indicated that Ford agreed that she needed more time to prepare her testimony.

That means it should be investigated thoroughly by law enforcement.

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The incident was reported to law enforcement and if any law enforcement agency on the Earth believes that it warrants an investigation, they will investigate it. I will leave it up to those agencies as to the extent of their investigation. Unfortunately I am not the FBI director and have no say in their internal affairs. And neither do you. If you dislike this, you are welcome to apply to the FBI as an agent and investigate it yourself. Or you may hire a private investigator. I do not think the world is very concerned about what you think should be done. You can do something, get over it, and/or continue to complain on a web forum.

If you were more confident of your candidate's innocence, you would not be trying out of desperation to make this more about me than about Kavanaugh and his accuser.

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I do not care about you very much, please rest assured. And Kavanaugh is not my candidate, nor am I a Republican. As I mentioned before there are other candidates that I would rather see than Kavanaugh, and if his nomination is pulled that would be fine by me. I am starting to wish that they pull his nomination just so I no longer have to hear you whine and complain about it. Have a nice day.

Afra said:

Assent and approval can be given if we do not know all of the facts. We will never know what happened in that room because neither one us was there, nor were any of the senators there. Only the Lord Almighty knows all of the facts, and that is true with respect to this confirmation and every confirmation in history. So your first statement is false.

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Presumably this wasn't a party of only two people. Someone was there that can be interviewed/questioned so that they can get to the bottom of what happened. That doesn't mean the statement is false; only that you think that the current absence of facts means that facts about this party are unknowable and undiscoverable.

As for your second statement, the Senate could do less than what they have agreed to do, so your second statement is also false.

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You're a lawyer and you make these arguments?

Doing the barest amount possible and saying "well, they could do nothing, so that means what you say is false" is...pretty ridiculous.

I agree that the charge is serious and should be taken seriously. It is being taken seriously. That is why they delayed the vote to Monday, and then delayed it again when she indicated that Ford agreed that she needed more time to prepare her testimony.

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Then what is the issue here? If you agree with me why do you keep picking a fight over this issue?

The incident was reported to law enforcement and if any law enforcement agency on the Earth believes that it warrants an investigation, they will investigate it. I will leave it up to those agencies as to the extent of their investigation. Unfortunately I am not the FBI director and have no say in their internal affairs. And neither do you. If you dislike this, you are welcome to apply to the FBI as an agent and investigate it yourself. Or you may hire a private investigator. I do not think the world is very concerned about what you think should be done. You can do something, get over it, and/or continue to complain on a web forum.

I do not care about you very much, please rest assured. And Kavanaugh is not my candidate, nor am I a Republican. As I mentioned before there are other candidates that I would rather see than Kavanaugh, and if his nomination is pulled that would be fine by me. I am starting to wish that they pull his nomination just so I no longer have to hear you whine and complain about it. Have a nice day.

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You say you don't care about me very much, which is fine. But you seem to ascribe a lot of power to me. In your eyes, whether or not the FBI investigates this incident, as it should, rests on my shoulders alone. In one of the previous iterations of this infinite loop of an argument, you made it seem as though I alone have the power to compel the Senate committee to do - or not do - things.

That's not to mention the fact that you keep protesting that you agree with me that the incident is serious and should be investigated, but when it comes to actually...you know...investigating the incident, you suddenly protest that no investigation is necessary and it's totally out of the wheelhouse of the FBI to check Ford's story at all.

There's a very simple way for this to end: investigate to get to the bottom of the truth. If Kavanaugh doesn't want the truth to come out, he should withdraw.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

But we have been arguing for the better part of a weekend, without irony, why an investigation is totally unfair...

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I haven't seen anyone here or anywhere else use the word unfair. The argument is the investigation would be pointless, woefully inconclusive, and used by the Democrats as a permanent block to appointment. The latter would render it unfair, of course, just not in the sense you want to claim.

KCfromNC said:

Obvious in what way? What does she stand to gain from this? Please, do tell.

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The fame and notoriety associated with being The One who blocked Kavanaugh. Those who would grant her this status care not if the allegation is true.

Ringo84 said:

Presumably this wasn't a party of only two people. Someone was there that can be interviewed/questioned so that they can get to the bottom of what happened. That doesn't mean the statement is false; only that you think that the current absence of facts means that facts about this party are unknowable and undiscoverable.



You're a lawyer and you make these arguments?

Doing the barest amount possible and saying "well, they could do nothing, so that means what you say is false" is...pretty ridiculous.



Then what is the issue here? If you agree with me why do you keep picking a fight over this issue?



You say you don't care about me very much, which is fine. But you seem to ascribe a lot of power to me. In your eyes, whether or not the FBI investigates this incident, as it should, rests on my shoulders alone. In one of the previous iterations of this infinite loop of an argument, you made it seem as though I alone have the power to compel the Senate committee to do - or not do - things.

That's not to mention the fact that you keep protesting that you agree with me that the incident is serious and should be investigated, but when it comes to actually...you know...investigating the incident, you suddenly protest that no investigation is necessary and it's totally out of the wheelhouse of the FBI to check Ford's story at all.

There's a very simple way for this to end: investigate to get to the bottom of the truth. If Kavanaugh doesn't want the truth to come out, he should withdraw.
Ringo

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I think the bottom line here is that you want the FBI to launch a detailed investigation, there is no evidence to suggest that they are going to do that, and the people in charge of the Senate confirmation process do not care that you want an FBI investigation. Have a nice day.

Sistrin said:

I haven't seen anyone here or anywhere else use the word unfair. The argument is the investigation would be pointless, woefully inconclusive, and used by the Democrats as a permanent block to appointment. The latter would render it unfair, of course, just not in the sense you want to claim.

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If I was wrongly accused of a sexual assault, I would call for an investigation to clear my name. That you (and/or Kavanaugh) think that an investigation would be "pointless" tells me everything I need to know about his presumed innocence.

Again: Kavanaugh's supporters are not even trying to argue his innocence anymore; just trying, unsuccessfully, to convince us that an investigation of the nominee they swear is innocent would be a "waste of time".
Ringo

LivingWordUnity said:

It's impossible to prove one way or the other because the accusation is over 30 years old, and the accuser herself isn't sure about the details. That's why an investigation would be pointless.

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Over thirty years old or not, they can talk to attendees of this party and determine what, if anything, happened. They can confirm that Kavanaugh was "stumbling drunk", that Ford attended the party, and that people were buzzing about the incident at school in the days following the party.

Doesn't take Eddie Valiant or Sherlock Holmes to figure these things out. You just don't want an investigation because you seem to realize that he's guilty.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

If I was wrongly accused of a sexual assault, I would call for an investigation to clear my name. That you (and/or Kavanaugh) think that an investigation would be "pointless" tells me everything I need to know about his presumed innocence.

Again: Kavanaugh's supporters are not even trying to argue his innocence anymore; just trying, unsuccessfully, to convince us that an investigation of the nominee they swear is innocent would be a "waste of time".
Ringo

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I asked you once prior to post Kavanaugh's words where he opposed an investigation. Still waiting.

As for me, my central claim hasn't changed. This particular woman is an obvious self-serving social justice warrior playing her role in the ongoing attempt to stop Kavanaugh's appointment. Her story is a joke.

At some time the year of which she can't remember at a party she doesn't remember where or when it took place or how she got there Future Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh attempted to rape her. No one can corroborate her story, of course, any part of it, but she must be believed because Woman.

I don't mourn for this woman. I mourn for the death of common sense.

Sistrin said:

As for me, my central claim hasn't changed. This particular woman is an obvious self-serving social justice warrior playing her role in the ongoing attempt to stop Kavanaugh's appointment. Her story is a joke.

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What is your evidence for this statement?