Statues of Mary = Statues of Jesus?

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Some Protestants think the veneration of Mary with statues as being idolatry.
I say what about images of Jesus, that Protestants have everywhere?
Isn't a statue of Jesus an idol according to OT law?

Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.​

Looks like a statue of Jesus counts as an idol. But why? Look at why God does not like idols.

They are lifeless.
Leviticus 26:30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you.​

God finds them detestable.
2 Chronicles 34:33 Josiah removed all the detestable idols​

They are worthless.
Psalm 31:6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols; as for me, I trust in the Lord.​

They are the work of human hands.
Isaiah 2:8 Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.​

They will disappear, are not eternal.
Isaiah 2:18 and the idols will totally disappear.​

They are no comparison to God.
Isaiah 40:18 With whom, then, will you compare God?
To what image will you liken him?
19As for an idol, a metalworker casts it,
and a goldsmith overlays it with gold
and fashions silver chains for it.
20 A person too poor to present such an offering
selects wood that will not rot;
they look for a skilled worker
to set up an idol that will not topple.
25“To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.​

They don't know the future, past or anything.
Isaiah 41:22“Tell us, you idols,
what is going to happen.
Tell us what the former things were,
so that we may consider them
and know their final outcome.
Or declare to us the things to come,
23 tell us what the future holds,
so we may know that you are gods.
Do something, whether good or bad,
so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.
24 But you are less than nothing
and your works are utterly worthless;
whoever chooses you is detestable
My concern with statues of Jesus is that it is not representative of God and his glory? First it is only one part of the Trinity. Second, Jesus in his life on earth was in a lowered state of glory.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Exodus 33:18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
I don't think anything on earth can display the glory of God. I think it would be an insult to God to pose any image of Jesus as being representative of God's glory. Now Jesus is God, but to show only one statue shows only one person of God and leaves out the other two. Again, this is a misrepresentation of God.

God is spirit, how can anything physical represent him?

As to statues of Mary, at least people don't say she is a god, and we know she was just a woman so a statue of her seems to not be idolatry, as long as you don't bow down to it.

Maybe the problem is statues of Jesus and not Mary.

Now I must admit that I went to a church for many years that had a statue of Jesus on the alter and when we went up to the alter, we bowed our heads. I never had a problem doing that. Now, I wonder if it was good though?
 

Heavenhome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 31, 2017
3,279
5,323
65
Newstead.Australia
✟407,525.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As we are clearly told not to make any graven images or worship them, it means just that: DONT HAVE them.
I am not a Catholic so Mary is a non issue and I do not believe in any representation of Jesus, we don't know what Jesus looked like and it was probably for that very reason that we don't .
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,672
18,551
Orlando, Florida
✟1,261,687.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
I don't think anything on earth can display the glory of God. I think it would be an insult to God to pose any image of Jesus as being representative of God's glory. Now Jesus is God, but to show only one statue shows only one person of God and leaves out the other two. Again, this is a misrepresentation of God.

Haven't you heard of perichoresis (indwelling)? The persons of God are not parts of God, they are persons.

And consider this Bible verse: Colossians 2:9

God is spirit, how can anything physical represent him?

Colossians 1:15

Now I must admit that I went to a church for many years that had a statue of Jesus on the alter and when we went up to the alter, we bowed our heads. I never had a problem doing that. Now, I wonder if it was good though?
I wonder what churches you went to that you saw statues of Jesus at all? I have been to some different Protestant churches and I've never seen statues of Jesus at any churches that weren't Anglican or Episcopalian. Lutherans might have them too, at least traditionally, but it's uncommon in the US.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,504
45,436
67
✟2,929,694.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
...what about images of Jesus that Protestants have everywhere?
I've seen paintings of Jesus (perhaps sitting at the Last Supper) hanging on walls of Protestant Churches, and I've seen Him on stained glass images as well, but I can't recall a single "statue" of Him in any of the 100's of Protestant churches that I've been in over the years.

Even in St. Peter's in Geneva, Switzerland (which is where John Calvin preached), the stained glass with Jesus' images remains, but all of the statues were removed (St. Peter's in Geneva used to be a Roman Catholic Church).

I've also never seen a Protestant kneel down/pray towards/worship beneath any of these paintings or stained glass images in more than 60 years.

Every Catholic church that I've been in has always had statues of both Mary and Jesus however.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,672
18,551
Orlando, Florida
✟1,261,687.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
I've seen paintings of Jesus (perhaps sitting at the Last Supper) hanging on walls of Protestant Churches, and I've seen Him on stained glass images as well, but I can't recall a single "statue" of Him in any of the 100's of Protestant churches that I've been in over the years.

Even in St. Peter's in Geneva, Switzerland (which is where John Calvin preached), the stained glass with Jesus' images remains, but all of the statues were removed (St. Peter's in Geneva used to be a Roman Catholic Church).

I've also never seen a Protestant kneel down/pray to/worship any of these paintings or stained glass images in more than 60 years.

Every Catholic church that I've been in has always had statues of both Mary and Jesus however.

I am surprised even a stained-glass depiction of Christ survived in that church through their reformation. Perhaps it was a later depiction when the Reformed began to be more liberal with the regulative principle?
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
"they bow down to the work of their hands." I don't know why some people bow down, but are they worshiping the statue? I have a nativity set that I put out at Christmas.

Maybe we should all become Amish --- no photos of loved ones.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Some Protestants think the veneration of Mary with statues as being idolatry.
I say what about images of Jesus, that Protestants have everywhere?
Isn't a statue of Jesus an idol according to OT law?

The explanation for this is quite simple. As you said, Some Protestants think statuary that depicts a saint or Jesus infringes upon the commandment against idolatry, but MOST Protestants do not.

People talk as though "Protestant" refers to one big church, when of course they are talking about many separate church bodies that, in most cases, are unrelated to each other.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Haven't you heard of perichoresis (indwelling)? The persons of God are not parts of God, they are persons.

And consider this Bible verse: Colossians 2:9

Colossians 1:15
If bugs me when people quote half a sentence.

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

So we are filled with the same that filled Jesus when he walked on earth. We can be filled with the teachings and love that God has along with his Spirit dwelling in us through faith. That is the context of the text.

Colossians 1 is addressing the power and authority of the Son of God. These are qualities of God. The form of God is another quality of God, but the text explicitly says God is invisible. This means the image of an invisible are nonvisible qualities of God.

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.​

The problem with idols is that they attempt to make a physical image of God's form which is invisible to us on earth.
I wonder what churches you went to that you saw statues of Jesus at all? I have been to some different Protestant churches and I've never seen statues of Jesus at any churches that weren't Anglican or Episcopalian. Lutherans might have them too, at least traditionally, but it's uncommon in the US.
It was a Lutheran church that got the statue from an old inner city church.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I've seen paintings of Jesus (perhaps sitting at the Last Supper) hanging on walls of Protestant Churches, and I've seen Him on stained glass images as well, but I can't recall a single "statue" of Him in any of the 100's of Protestant churches that I've been in over the years.

Even in St. Peter's in Geneva, Switzerland (which is where John Calvin preached), the stained glass with Jesus' images remains, but all of the statues were removed (St. Peter's in Geneva used to be a Roman Catholic Church).

I've also never seen a Protestant kneel down/pray to/worship any of these paintings or stained glass images in more than 60 years.

Every Catholic church that I've been in has always had statues of both Mary and Jesus however.
Maybe the statues everywhere in Protestant churches is exaggerated, but there are the many images of Jesus any different?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"they bow down to the work of their hands." I don't know why some people bow down, but are they worshiping the statue? I have a nativity set that I put out at Christmas.

Maybe we should all become Amish --- no photos of loved ones.
I have a nativity set also.
Why does an image of Jesus not count as an idol though?
The only escape from the commandment is that it is not an attempt to show the glory of God. Of course this will get many upset to think that Jesus' body is not the glory of God.

Do you have an answer for me?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I have a nativity set also.
Why does an image of Jesus not count as an idol though?
The only escape from the commandment is that it is not an attempt to show the glory of God. Of course this will get many upset to think that Jesus' body is not the glory of God.

Do you have an answer for me?

What is your question?
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The explanation for this is quite simple. As you said, Some Protestants think statuary that depicts a saint or Jesus infringes upon the commandment against idolatry, but MOST Protestants do not.

People talk as though "Protestant" refers to one big church, when of course they are talking about many separate church bodies that, in most cases, are unrelated to each other.
My question is, why is a statue of Jesus not an idol according to scripture, which is what most Protestants follow?
 
Upvote 0

Hieronymus

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
8,427
2,998
52
the Hague NL
✟69,862.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thinking out loud:

Looking at the 2nd Commandment, i think it's intended as a law against worshipping anyone or anything other than God.
Now Jesus is God too, but Mary is not.
But still, i think it's not a good idea to worship / pray to a statue or painting of Jesus.
It's not the way God intended i.m.h.o. to focus on some representation of God / the Godhead in order to make some sort of connection to Him.
Do we need a reminder like a crucifix to get our attention (back) to God?
I'm not sure, i don't think that's what being a Christian should be about.
But i could be wrong.
For some it may help. (?)
But praying to a crucifix, as if it were a portal or something like that, seems off to me.
Praying to objects can "lure" spirits though, but God is not to be lured.
So unless you want to lure little g gods, i would say don't make graven images / idols for religious purposes.
Perhaps this is the risk in making Christian images / sculptures.
On the other hand, why not depict Biblical scenes, like the crucifixion?
It can say more than a 1000 words.
I think that Law is specifically about worshipping or channeling through an idol / figurine / statue / image, because it's about having no other gods before Him and no substitutes of Him either.
 
Upvote 0

Hieronymus

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
8,427
2,998
52
the Hague NL
✟69,862.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The explanation for this is quite simple. As you said, Some Protestants think statuary that depicts a saint or Jesus infringes upon the commandment against idolatry, but MOST Protestants do not.

People talk as though "Protestant" refers to one big church, when of course they are talking about many separate church bodies that, in most cases, are unrelated to each other.
Hmm... Related in Jesus Christ i hope..
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
My question is, why is a statue of Jesus not an idol according to scripture, which is what most Protestants follow?

The same reason a nativity set is not an idol. I've never worshiped a nativity set, a Bible, or a picture. I don't pray to pictures, icons, or figurines. How do you feel about crosses?
 
Upvote 0

Tutorman

Charismatic Episcopalian
Jun 20, 2017
1,637
1,349
52
california
✟103,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We have a Risen Christ cruifix hang behind the alter and two icons depicting Christ. One icon is with angels on either side of Christ and the other icon is the Christ child with the Theotokos no one worships them.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Site Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We have a Risen Christ cruifix hang behind the alter and two icons depicting Christ. One icon is with angels on either side of Christ and the other icon is the Christ child with the Theotokos no one worships them.
I've never worshiped a nativity set, a Bible, or a picture. I don't pray to pictures, icons, or figurines.
Read the commandment. God said to not make images of him. Read all the scripture I quoted, multiple deal with the idea of an object created to be his image. Worshiping the object is not a criteria for it to be an idol and something God does not like.

But I have no problem with a nativity scene. Why is that different and not an image of God?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Maybe the statues everywhere in Protestant churches is exaggerated, but there are the many images of Jesus any different?
Yes, that's fair to ask; and I would answer that there is no difference between the two so long as the issue is the commandment about graven images. If it is about praying to the personages pictured (but not to the image itself), then there is a big difference and I hope you agree.

However, my point about the churches described is still valid, I think, because some churches see having such an image in a church as wrong--and so do not have them--while others (such as the one I referred to) have them and do not think them wrong. I don't see anything mysterious or contrary about that; these are not churches of the same (Protestant) denomination.
 
Upvote 0