Baby Alice
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That's sounds more like they wanted clothes >.>
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Are nudist church services morally acceptable?
- Thread starter Maria Sweet
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You have to go back and read it. I say that because it includes the fact that they sinned and realized that they were naked. that they knew to cover themselves up, that God did not tell them they were wrong for covering themselves up, and that he made them clothes after that.
The forums are a great source of fellowship and information, but you really have to commit to reading the Bible yourself. Otherwise you don't know what it says, if someone is twisting it, how it is being taken out of context, or how the argument lines up with the rest of the Bible.
Luke 8
5A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 6And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
You have to make sure you get strong roots in the faith before you engage too heavily in places with many birds.
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mmksparbud
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2Timothy2:15
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Leviticus 18:6-19 King James Version (KJV)
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
And before you say that is OT, let's put on our thinking hats for a second. Every time there is a naked person in the NT it is a direct result of demonic activity, either the possessed man and the tombs or someone attacked by demons. Thus this behavior can be concluded as a result of the demonic, this is so obvious I can't believe this is even up for debate.
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
And before you say that is OT, let's put on our thinking hats for a second. Every time there is a naked person in the NT it is a direct result of demonic activity, either the possessed man and the tombs or someone attacked by demons. Thus this behavior can be concluded as a result of the demonic, this is so obvious I can't believe this is even up for debate.
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Darkhorse
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You're speculating a lot about weather and temperature. While rain is not mentioned until the Flood, why do you assume that the ideal climate of Eden continued after the Fall?
Remember how God cursed the ground with thorns and thistles? I have wild berry vines all over my property and I wouldn't dream of trying to walk nude through them. I'd get shredded! When I have to deal with them, I wear heavy leather gloves - like the leather clothes God made.
While the middle east gets hot, it also gets quite cold. If we assume that Eden was in Mesopotamia (between the Tigris and Euphrates), they would need protection from cold for part of the year.
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Darkhorse
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The phrase "uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom for "have sexual relations with", much as we say "sleep with" today. It had nothing to do with actual nudity. These verses forbid incest, not nudity.
The young follower of Jesus who fled naked when the Romans grabbed him was not "demonic";
he was just trying to save his skin (no pun intended).
Mark 14:51-52
A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.
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mmksparbud
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If it didn't rain, there were no other problems with the weather. Certainly didn't snow. There are tribes that are running around naked in the dessert today. In the jungles, all sorts of stuff to cut them up. He didn't need to make them clothes. If it is OK to be nude today--to worship God even---then they did not
need clothes either.
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Darkhorse
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Unless I were in a very tropical area, I would need clothes, and I'm pretty hairy.
I love clothes in cold weather. Hot and humid? Clothes are too hot.
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mmksparbud
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Yah--so do I--Adam and Eve still did not need to have clothes. If He wanted them naked, He'd have left them that way.
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Darkhorse
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True, the tone changes from beauty and innocence to adultery, but that's part of the allegory's power. Showing how God's "bride" scorned His care and used her assets for evil purposes.
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God speaking about how He clothed her shows it is a better thing to be dressed. A blessing to be clothed by God. Physically and spiritually. (Btw, your friends all look a bit wierd. I guess that is because I'm from the UK and that many Americans look a bit wierd due to differing genes hehe)
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Darkhorse
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God's covering her nakedness with His garment (v. 8) symbolizes His intent to "marry" her, claiming her for His bride. It does not signify that her nakedness was shameful or improper. He had no problem with it in verse 7.
And yes, they do look a bit strange, but I can spot a Brit over here without much trouble. Genes matter.
They are all good people. The old man in the video (Bill) died a couple of years after it was made. He was 95 and loved to dance with the ladies!
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Bill looked nice.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/jamieson-fausset-brown/ezekiel/ezekiel-16.html
We'll have to hold a bible study on Ezekiel 16 sometime so it stops coming up in our discussions.
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2Timothy2:15
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The example in Mark you give was one I sort of anticipated. The fundamental problem with your argument is that his nakedness was not of his own choice but most scholars think he was most likely caught off guard and others laid hands on him grabbing his garment and he literally ran out of them. He was not choosing to run around naked.
Now for your point on incest. Simply viewing them naked was wicked, not just the sexual act, this is clear.
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mmksparbud
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Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
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Darkhorse
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Then why don't modern translations (which talk about incest, but not nudity) condemn nudity?
Leviticus 18:6-20 (NIV)
6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord."
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her."
8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father."
9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere."
10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you."
11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister."
12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative."
13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative."
14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt."
15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her."
16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother."
17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness."
18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living."
19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period."
20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her."
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Some Biblical authorities believe that Ham violated Noah sexually, and that this is the meaning of "saw his father's nakedness".
I don't know about that, but clearly, Ham's son was not cursed simply because his father accidently saw Noah naked. Accidents like this happen in every family, and were probably more common then then now.
What I clearly see is Ham's disrespect for his father, shown in how he told his brothers.
In a time when striking a parent meant death for a child, respect was taken seriously.
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