Five Different Kinds of Tongues

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
Please cite that scripture.

Rom 8:9
Gal 3:2
Gal 3:13-14
Gal 5:5
Eph 1:13
1 Cor 6:19
Titus 3:5
1 John 3:24
1 John 4:13
Acts 2:38
Acts 11:17

Dan the deacon said:
Can those who have not been.baptized also.have gifts of the Spirit?

Everyone who is a believer has a spiritual gift (1 Cor 12:7).

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
The topic is tongues. Not keeping the law.

I know it was off-topic. Somebody gatecrashed this topic turning it into a discussion on Saturday sabbatarianism, effectively accusing those who oppose it of being bound for hell (which is against the rules of this forum). I've explained why he is wrong, so I will be ignoring him from now on.

corinth77777 · Sep 10, 2018

.....The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

Dan the deacon · Sep 10, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Rom 8:9
Gal 3:2
Gal 3:13-14
Gal 5:5
Eph 1:13
1 Cor 6:19
Titus 3:5
1 John 3:24
1 John 4:13
Acts 2:38
Acts 11:17

Everyone who is a believer has a spiritual gift (1 Cor 12:7).

I disagree. Those who have been baptized. Only they are a part of the Church. I am not saying they have not entered salvation but the gifts are for the Church(the Body of Christ). As is the Holy Spirit. Remember when the Spirit descended for Christ? Was it not at His baptism? Why would we think it is different for us?
BTW Thank you for answering my question by posting the scriptures.

DamianWarS · Sep 10, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Acts 8 (assuming tongues was the manifestation) was not indiscriminate. Nor was Acts 19. People only spoke in tongues after an apostle laid hands on them.

yes... indiscriminately. There is no suggestion of individuals being chosen with specific gifts. as for Acts 8 what was clear was upon the onset of the Baptism of the HS was a power and this is consistent with the rest of Baptism of the HS experiences in Acts.

swordsman1 said:
The only time after Pentecost that the baptism of the Spirit occured subsequent to salvation was in the unique event of Acts 8, the first time a group was converted outside of Judaism. (All the tongues events in Acts happened the when whole new groups of people were added to the church). It is bad hermeneutics to declare that it is a post salvation event based on a single unique historical event when there are other clearer scriptures that say otherwise. 1 Cor 12:13 says that all beleivers are baptised in the Spirit the moment they beleive, they are baptised into the body of Christ - if you are not baptised in the Spirit you are not part of the body of Christ.

There is also Acts 11. 1 Cor and Acts use similar language and a cursory reading could come to conclusion they are the same but a study of the two reveals they are different and play by different rules. The Baptism of the HS wasn't just a one time thing and Acts shows us subsequent experiences all accompany some sort of burst of power from the HS and indiscriminately given. Acts 2 the 120 were baptised in the HS and all spoke in tongues, later in Acts 4, the same 120 were filled with HS in a experience of power again and all spoke with boldness after that. This sort of behaviour of the HS doesn't fit what Paul lays out in 1 Corinthians. So either the HS is inconsistent or these manifestations play by different rules and this is where the separation of doctrines come from

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
So you believe we must be completely free of sin? If that is true Christ died for nothing as every man (including you) still sins. We are given these gifts not because we never sin. St. Paul.spoke in tongues and he said he still sinned.
I am quite sure most of us sin daily. I ask.forgiveness daily. Afyer I ask I am free of sin until I sin again. So there are times I am sin free. But as my Father is not an Indain giver, He does not take the gift He gave me back because it is a gift not a contract that I can only keep.it if I do not sin. He made me with this sinful flesh, so I am quite sure He understands my weakness. Regardless of your odd beliefs that even you cannot uphold.

Nope your making things up playing in straw and saying things no one is saying to you. I guess it is because you have no scriptures to share. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (MATTHEW 15:2-9; ACTS 5:29; ROMANS 3:4)

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
I guess you do not understand the word fulfilled
It means completed so ended , abolished, no longer valid and over with are all valid. The law is no.longer what we are to uphold. There were over 600 of them and even you keep them poorly at best.

NOPE! Seems you do not understand the meaning of the word fulfilled. Let's have a look

The GREEK word for FULFILLED is γίνομαι is a verb tense and means, to generate; to come into being; to arise and be assembled; to come to pass; to continue doing; to be finished and come to pass; to grow; to happen, be kept; to partake..

The CONTEXT is v18...

MATTHEW 5:17-19
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [execute and to satisfy and to perfect and verify and accomplish, supply; finish a task and complete]. [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled [to generate; to come into being; to arise and be assembled; to come to pass; to continue doing; to be finished and come to pass; to grow; to happen, be kept; to partake]. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So nope heaven and earth are still here. You may need to read your bible again.

v18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled [continue doing; come to pass; to keep and to partake of]

GREEK word for FULFILL is πληρόω means to execute, finish and accomplish; to verify; fulfill, perfect and accomplish is used in v17.

PAUL uses this same GREEK word in ROMANS 13...

ROMANS 13:9-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Hope this helps

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2018

DamianWarS said:
yes... indiscriminately. There is no suggestion of individuals being chosen with specific gifts.

That's not true. In Acts 19 they received the gift of prophecy, others didn't. Agabus was given the gift of prophecy, others were not. Philip was an evangelist, others were not. Some were apostles, others were not. Some were teachers, others were not. Some spoke in tongues, others did not.

DamianWarS said:
as for Acts 8 what was clear was upon the onset of the Baptism of the HS was a power and this is consistent with the rest of Baptism of the HS experiences in Acts.

Where in Acts 8 does it say it was a 'power'?

DamianWarS said:
There is also Acts 11.

Acts 11? Are you referring to Cornelius household? They received the Spirit as Peter was preaching.

DamianWarS said:
1 Cor and Acts use similar language and a cursory reading could come to conclusion they are the same but a study of the two reveals they are different and play by different rules.

You haven't shown us where the tongues themselves were different. And what are these 'rules' you refer to?

DamianWarS said:
Baptism of the HS wasn't just a one time thing and Acts shows us subsequent experiences all accompany some sort of burst of power from the HS and indiscriminately given.

People were baptized in the Spirit multiple times? Where?

DamianWarS said:
Acts 2 the 120 were baptised in the HS and all spoke in tongues, later in Acts 4, the same 120 were filled with HS in a experience of power again and all spoke with boldness after that.

You are getting confused with the baptism and filling of the Spirit. They are two different things. Fillings are not associated with tongues, they are associated with boldness. And the only time baptism of the Spirit is associated with tongues was when whole new groups of people joined the church for the 1st time - Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles, Disciples of John the Baptist.

DamianWarS said:
So either the HS is inconsistent or these manifestations play by different rules and this is where the separation of doctrines come from

As I said the circumstances may have been different, but the gift itself was the same.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

corinth77777 said:
.....The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

If you stopped there your interpretation that God's LAW stopped at John might seem correct. But the next few verses you leave out undoes your interpretation of the sctiptures. Let's add them all together and show what you have left out that changes the meaning your trying to put on the scriptures.

LUKE 16:16-18 [16] The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. [17], And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one dot of the law to fail. [18], Whosoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whosoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery.

Yep seems the next two verses you left out goes against your teachings here. You may want to re-visit the scriptures? If God's 10 commandments were until John then Jesus would not be teaching them after John. Not to mention all the Apostles after the death of Jesus.

...........

Matthew tells the same story here...

MATTHEW 5:17-19 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps.. :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

swordsman1 said:
I know it was off-topic. Somebody gatecrashed this topic turning it into a discussion on Saturday sabbatarianism, effectively accusing those who oppose it of being bound for hell (which is against the rules of this forum). I've explained why he is wrong, so I will be ignoring him from now on.

Not really, you were the one who changed the topic. It is God's WORD that disagreed with you. They are God's WORD's not mine. You only showed you did not believe them.

Dan the deacon · Sep 10, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
NOPE! Seems you do not understand the meaning of the word fulfilled. Let's have a look

The GREEK word for FULFILLED is γίνομαι is a verb tense and means, to generate; to come into being; to arise and be assembled; to come to pass; to continue doing; to be finished and come to pass; to grow; to happen, be kept; to partake..

The CONTEXT is v18...

MATTHEW 5:17-19
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [execute and to satisfy and to perfect and verify and accomplish, supply; finish a task and complete]. [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled [to generate; to come into being; to arise and be assembled; to come to pass; to continue doing; to be finished and come to pass; to grow; to happen, be kept; to partake]. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

v18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled [continue doing; come to pass; to keep and to partake of]

So nope heaven and earth are still here. You may need to read your bible again.

You left out much of that definition.
It also means completed, finished, run it's coarse, ended and completed it's purpose. You only posted the part agreeing with your false doctrine.
. We are told to.keep the commandments of Christ
Do you know what they are? I assure you they are not Israel's ten. Those are completed. Finished and no longer law. But you van keep.believing what you wish like all those of the SDA.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
You left out much of that definition.
It also means completed, finished, run it's coarse, ended and completed it's purpose. You only posted the part agreeing with your false doctrine.
. We are told to.keep the commandments of Christ
Do you know what they are? I assure you they are not Israel's ten. Those are completed. Finished and no longer law. But you van keep.believing what you wish like all those of the SDA.

Not at all the scripture CONTEXT you are leaving out of the word meanings show your interpretation is a false one. Jesus does not have different laws to those in the OLD TESTAMENT. The Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the NEW. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12)

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
I disagree. Those who have been baptized. Only they are a part of the Church. I am not saying they have not entered salvation but the gifts are for the Church(the Body of Christ). As is the Holy Spirit. Remember when the Spirit descended for Christ? Was it not at His baptism? Why would we think it is different for us?
BTW Thank you for answering my question by posting the scriptures.

1 Cor 12:7 "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."

No we do not receive the Spirit at water baptism. As the verses I quoted show, we receive the Spirit at salvation.

corinth77777 · Sep 10, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If you stopped there your interpretation that God's LAW stopped at John might seem correct. But the next few verses you leave out undoes your interpretation of the sctiptures. Let's add them all together and show what you have left out that changes the meaning your trying to put on the scriptures.

LUKE 16:16-18 [16] The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. [17], And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one dot of the law to fail. [18], Whosoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whosoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery.

Yep seems the next two verses you left out goes against your teachings here. You may want to re-visit the scriptures?

...........

Matthew tells the same story here...

MATTHEW 5:17-19 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps..

The Law is fullfilled...by Christ....once one comes to Faith in Christ....they establish the law....the purpose is met....for those who still need to come to Christ it is there for them...

corinth77777 · Sep 10, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If you stopped there your interpretation that God's LAW stopped at John might seem correct. But the next few verses you leave out undoes your interpretation of the sctiptures. Let's add them all together and show what you have left out that changes the meaning your trying to put on the scriptures.

LUKE 16:16-18 [16] The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. [17], And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one dot of the law to fail. [18], Whosoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whosoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery.

Yep seems the next two verses you left out goes against your teachings here. You may want to re-visit the scriptures? If God's 10 commandments were until John then Jesus would not be teaching them after John. Not to mention all the Apostles after the death of Jesus.

...........

Matthew tells the same story here...

MATTHEW 5:17-19 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps..

Please stop waving ...I find it sarcastic...
Thanks.....also I would find it very hard for an an SDA member to teach me....who follows Ellen White.....etc...Humbleness works better...Why do you suppose we do not say to you, "I hope this Helps"........It sounds as you believe you have the answers...Thanks for considering my wish

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

corinth77777 said:
The Law is fullfilled...by Christ....once one comes to Faith in Christ....they establish the law....the purpose is met....for those who still need to come to Christ it is there for them...

If God's LAW is not fulfilled in you as the fruit of FAITH (ROMMANS 13:8-10) and you are breaking any one of them you do not know Christ and do not have saving faith (1 JOHN 2:1-4; JAMES 2:18-20). It is God's LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172). If your lamp has gone out haw can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow * PROVERBS 13:9?

corinth77777 · Sep 10, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
You left out much of that definition.
It also means completed, finished, run it's coarse, ended and completed it's purpose. You only posted the part agreeing with your false doctrine.
. We are told to.keep the commandments of Christ
Do you know what they are? I assure you they are not Israel's ten. Those are completed. Finished and no longer law. But you van keep.believing what you wish like all those of the SDA.

Legalism judges.....

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

corinth77777 said:
Legalism judges.....

Is it legalism or is it God's WORD that judges?

JOHN 12:47-48 [47] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [48], He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (MATTHEW 15:3-9).

corinth77777 · Sep 10, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If God's LAW is not fulfilled in you as the fruit of FAITH (ROMMANS 13:8-10) and you are breaking any one of them you do not know Christ and do not have saving faith (1 JOHN 2:1-4; JAMES 2:18-20). It is God's LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172). If your lamp has gone out haw can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow * PROVERBS 13:9?

There are 2 types of Laws
Ones after the flesh
And ones after the Spirit

So when it speaks to those delivered by Christ its most likely speaking of the spiritual
Not the Law of God....

There are 2 different covenants
As with a new marriage after the husband dies... the vows are different and some vowd may remain. BUT the difference on the aspect, for example of love....is that love stems from faith as a gift from Christ.
So while Love as noted in scripture is not new but new that is an example...to a vow that is also in the new cov.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2018

corinth77777 said:
There are 2 types of Laws
Ones after the flesh
And ones after the Spirit

So when it speaks to those delivered by Christ its most likely speaking of the spiritual
Not the Law of God....

There are 2 different covenants
As with a new marriage after the husband dies... the vows are different and some vowd may remain. BUT the difference on the aspect, for example of love....is that love stems from faith as a gift from Christ.
So while Love as noted in scripture is not new but new that is an example...to a vow that is also in the new cov.

Or is it referring to the 10 Commandment being kept two ways? One by the letter that leads to sin and death (1 John 3:4) and the other by the Spirit leading to LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who believe and follow God's WORD (Galatians 5:16; Romans 13:8-10; John 3:15-20) and brings us into the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12)?

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