Five Different Kinds of Tongues

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
HEBREWS 11
They didn't have Bibles either. You are obviously not of the faith of Abraham, right? You are Bible-dependent. Maybe you need to join BA? (bibles anonymous) For biblaholics.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
They didn't have Bibles either. You are obviously not of the faith of Abraham, right? You are Bible-dependent. Maybe you need to join BA? (bibles anonymous) For biblaholics.

Of course they had God's WORD in the OLD TESTAMENT you need to read your bible more. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD. How could those saved by faith in HEBREWS 11 be saved if they did not know the WORD of GOD?
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course they had God's WORD in the OLD TESTAMENT you need to read your bible more. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD. How could those saved by faith in HEBREWS 11 be saved if they did not know the WORD of GOD?
How did they know it? Not by reading it in the Bible. This is where you have failed.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
How did they know it? Not by reading it in the Bible. This is where you have failed.

Read this slowly and tell me what you think it means?

FAITH COME BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD *ROMANS 10:17
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Read this slowly and tell me what you think it means?

FAITH COME BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD *ROMANS 10:17
I t m e a n s t h a t i f y o u d i d n ' t h a v e a b i b l e - y o u w o u l d b e t o a s t
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I t m e a n s t h a t i f y o u d i d n ' t h a v e a b i b l e - y o u w o u l d b e t o a s t
Aww nope Steve you have a wrong understanding of the scriptures here is your problem. ROMANS 10:17 is saying that FAITH COMES BY HEARING the WORD of GOD. So when there was no bibles the WORD was spoken and people heard it but where did they hear it from? The WORD of God.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word)
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Aww nope Steve you have a wrong understanding of the scriptures here is your problem. ROMANS 10:17 is saying that FAITH COMES BY HEARING the WORD of GOD. So when there was no bibles the WORD was spoken and people heard it but where did they hear it from? The WORD of God.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word)
So, why can't you hear his voice? Not a sheep? Baaa…
 
Upvote 0

corinth77777

learner
Nov 15, 2013
3,089
441
✟99,135.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Do any abide in CHRIST if a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come and they turn away from it? John says it is obedience to God's LAW through love that is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10.
Delete
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Is it possible for one to abide in Christ and turn away?
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Of course you can turn away if you do not abide in Christ *1 JOHN 3:6; JOHN 15:4-6
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The reason I asked was because the word 'power' doesn't appear in the version I consider best for bible study (the NASB). The word there is translated 'authority', but I see other versions translate it power - which gives the impression of 'dunamis', supernatural miracle-working power. However the actual word used is 'exousian' which is power in the sense of having authority.

BDAG Lexicon
① a state of control over someth., freedom of choice, right
② potential or resource to command, control, or govern, capability, might, power
So Simon was wanting the authority to impart gifts. Notice that Simon was not seeking to be baptised in the Spirit. He wanted to buy the same authority (or power) as Peter had to impart the Spirit. The BoS itself is not a form of power.

power is the preferred english translation. Words can't be understood in a lexicon vacuum and they have contextual meaning. Simon was some sort of sorcerer or learnt in a degree in performing magic. He is interested in power, authority would be arbitrary to him without the manifestation so it is really the manifestation he was looking for. The word "power" however is contextually based on Simon's perception and the BoS is not a magic wand or incantation. But its manifestation are a sense of increase and this is the "power" I am referring to.

Being filled and being baptized are completely different terms. One is external, the other internal.

The disciples were both filled and baptized at Pentecost. The were baptized in the Spirit and made part of the body of Christ, the church (1 Cor 12:13), and they were also also filled with the Spirit coming under His influence (Eph 5:18).

No they are not synonymous. All believers are baptized in the Spirit at conversion - it is the beleivers placement into the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" . There is no indication of this being a repeated event. Like water baptism (which is an outward picture of this inner baptism) it is a one-off initiation event.

You are superimposing 1 Cor 12 over Acts. Acts doesn't need 1 Cor 12-14 as it's interpreter and it may stand alone. Acts reveals to us what the baptism of the Holy Spirit looks like. When you force the rules of 1 Cor 12-14 it then forces a different understanding outside of the natural with many areas of tension. The Epistles were written before Acts and Paul does not write the his letter to the Corinthians so they may understand Acts better.

Being FILLED with the Spirit, however, can happen repeatedly. Eph 5:18 "but be filled with the Spirit", the tense of 'filled' is present imperative ie. be continually filled.

Peter was filled at Pentecost, he was filled again when he stood before the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:8, and filled again in Acts 4:31. Paul was filled in Acts 9:17, and again in Acts 13:9. Stephen was filled in Acts 6:3-5, and again in Acts 7:55.

What characterizes each of those filling events in scripture was not tongues, but boldness. Only one involved tongues (Pentecost), so tongues cannot be said to be a characteristic of being filled with the Spirit.

how many do you need? is one not enough? The baptism of the HS biblical is the initial event and the subsequent fillings are later events, tongues is consistent as you point out with the baptism of the HS event over subsequent fillings. The HS is in control of his manifestations I can only read scripture and see what it reveals about these events. One thing is consistent there is an increase from the HS to allow things to happen that in our natural state we are unable to do.

When did the disciples received the HS? upon Pentecost or John 20:22? The Bible doesn't spell out your pneumatology the way you want it to. Rather than sweep the conflicts under the rug could possible both exist at the same time?

Paul's conversion took place on the Damascus Road not when he was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17.

so was Paul baptised with the Spirit upon his encounter with Ananias or was it upon his encounter with Christ? What indications does the text tell us? If you force 1 Cor 12 over it how does this change these indications? Which is more responsible? Is the text so difficult that you need Paul to hold your hand?
 
Upvote 0

corinth77777

learner
Nov 15, 2013
3,089
441
✟99,135.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Of course you can turn away if you do not abide in Christ *1 JOHN 3:6; JOHN 15:4-6
Not, what I meant...you are saying that the truth is your knowledge...you believe you receive the Spirit to keep the Law. And one who has not received "your truth" doesn't abide in Christ. ....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Dan the deacon

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
823
386
65
Perry
✟28,197.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not, what I meant...you are saying that the truth is your knowledge...you believe you receive the Spirit to keep the Law. And one who has not received "your truth" doesn't abide in Christ. ....
It is not hos view but Ms White's. She is the SDAs Joseph Smith.
 
Upvote 0

gideon123

Humble Servant of God
Dec 25, 2011
1,185
583
USA
✟59,081.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"I shared a few near the bottom of the OP. Was there a specific kind of tongues you wanted to discuss?

Part of the problem is that the Bible says very little about the subject. "

My point was simply to say this. Whenever I see mention of Speaking In Tongues in the Book Of Acts ... I see this as a reference to speaking in foreign languages. It is clear from the surrounding passages, that people from other lands and cities understood the words. They did not need an 'interpretation'. The words the spectators heard were in their own native languages.

For example, if you suddenly stood up and said The Book Of Romans in Russian .. and someone from Moscow understood you ... that is what I am saying. And it would be a true miracle, if you had never heard a word of the Russian language.

In all passages in Acts, I see the same thing. People from other cities understood immediatwly.

I believe that some Protestant churches have gone astray in their teachings. I see no value in saying gibberish to God. And I dont believe that God does either. If a person goes to Home Depot and tries to buy something .. and speaks in gibberish .. the police will ask for a medical evaluation of that person.

So why should church be any different?

God already knows our hearts and minds. We dont need to scramble sounds to talk to Him.

Just my thoughts on this.

Blessings!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,940
1,064
✟250,347.00
Faith
Christian
power is the preferred english translation. Words can't be understood in a lexicon vacuum and they have contextual meaning. Simon was some sort of sorcerer or learnt in a degree in performing magic. He is interested in power, authority would be arbitrary to him without the manifestation so it is really the manifestation he was looking for. The word "power" however is contextually based on Simon's perception and the BoS is not a magic wand or incantation. But its manifestation are a sense of increase and this is the "power" I am referring to.

I don't have a problem with translating it as 'power' providing it is understood that it is power in the sense of having an authority. Eg a boss having the power to fire someone. That is the meaning of the Greek word. And the power that Simon was seeking was the power to impart the Spirit as Peter had done (not some kind of power that the Spirit would give him). It says so plainly:

Acts 8:18-20 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Substitute 'authority' for 'power' if you wish, it doesn't change the clear meaning of the passage.


You are superimposing 1 Cor 12 over Acts. Acts doesn't need 1 Cor 12-14 as it's interpreter and it may stand alone. Acts reveals to us what the baptism of the Holy Spirit looks like. When you force the rules of 1 Cor 12-14 it then forces a different understanding outside of the natural with many areas of tension. The Epistles were written before Acts and Paul does not write the his letter to the Corinthians so they may understand Acts better.

That is a very dangerous approach to bible interpretation. One of the main principles of hermeneutics is that we use scripture to interpret scripture. Clearer passages on a particular subject shine light on more obscure passages. 1 Cor gives us vital information about the Baptism of the Spirit that Acts does not. It tells us that all believers are baptized in the Spirit and that it is what unites them into the body of Christ. There is no contradiction between 1 Corinthians and Acts. Acts gives us no conflicting details about what the BoS is, it only tells us that the disciples would be Baptized in the Spirit at Pentecost. Contradiction between Acts and 1 Cor is only introduced if you claim that the BoS is a subsequent event and that not all believers experience it.

so was Paul baptised with the Spirit upon his encounter with Ananias or was it upon his encounter with Christ? What indications does the text tell us? If you force 1 Cor 12 over it how does this change these indications? Which is more responsible? Is the text so difficult that you need Paul to hold your hand?

It doesn't say Paul was baptized in the Spirit when he was with Ananias. To claim he was would be an unwarranted presumption. Scripture doesn't tell us when Paul was baptized in the Spirit, but based on what Paul says about it we can safely assume it happened at his conversion on the Damascus Road.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

corinth77777

learner
Nov 15, 2013
3,089
441
✟99,135.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Do any abide in CHRIST if a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come and they turn away from it? John says it is obedience to God's LAW through love that is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10.

I had to delete my first response...
But I needed to go back to your logic and see if it's correct.
First I really want to dismiss your question because the knowledge you are speaking of is your truth. You believe to keep the sabbath and I believe the sabbaths were shadows as scripture states.

Let's look at the passages in 1 John.
And see if we can get an understanding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"I shared a few near the bottom of the OP. Was there a specific kind of tongues you wanted to discuss?

Part of the problem is that the Bible says very little about the subject. "

My point was simply to say this. Whenever I see mention of Speaking In Tongues in the Book Of Acts ... I see this as a reference to speaking in foreign languages. It is clear from the surrounding passages, that people from other lands and cities understood the words. They did not need an 'interpretation'. The words the spectators heard were in their own native languages.

For example, if you suddenly stood up and said The Book Of Romans in Russian .. and someone from Moscow understood you ... that is what I am saying. And it would be a true miracle, if you had never heard a word of the Russian language.

In all passages in Acts, I see the same thing. People from other cities understood immediatwly.

I believe that some Protestant churches have gone astray in their teachings. I see no value in saying gibberish to God. And I dont believe that God does either. If a person goes to Home Depot and tries to buy something .. and speaks in gibberish .. the police will ask for a medical evaluation of that person.

So why should church be any different?

God already knows our hearts and minds. We dont need to scramble sounds to talk to Him.

Just my thoughts on this.

Blessings!
Thanks for your post. But I will have to disagree.
Both about your general problem with tongues and your complete misunderstanding about tongues in the book of Acts.

Did you read the OP at the beginning of this topic. There are at least different kinds of tongues. (six now)

I'm willing to discuss this further, but I get a sense that you just wanted to say your piece and leave. Please reply if you want to explore this further. Otherwise, God bless you.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
To anyone here claiming anyone said they were sinless, can you please show us where the claim was made?

That's always a favorite way to shoot the messenger in these conversations but it's always assumed and never that I know of, has anyone actually claimed that.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To anyone here claiming anyone said they were sinless, can you please show us where the claim was made?

That's always a favorite way to shoot the messenger in these conversations but it's always assumed and never that I know of, has anyone actually claimed that.
I thought LGW was claiming that. But I might be mistaken. Ask him if any sin is allowed in heaven. That would get his attention.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I thought LGW was claiming that. But I might be mistaken. Ask him if any sin is allowed in heaven. That would get his attention.

If you would please show me as I asked, I'll take a look at it.

I think I did actually hear someone once say thy didn't sin here but they really caught heck for it, however it's not common at all.
 
Upvote 0