When God doesn't answer

angeltrue · Aug 19, 2018

I've been in prayer for years for certain things for my children and I and none of my heartfelt pleas were answered for them - or me. I've consistently seen evil people get away with horrendous misdeeds and harm others. Some of the wrongdoers have been 'Christians' and some in leadership positions.

I'm at a rough time in my walk with God. I've lost the desire to read the bible because I don't get answers. I know all the Scriptures and have prayed and fasted and prayed and fasted to no avail. And then I see the wicked prosper. I was just reading about a man who was sent to jail by a corrupt prosecutor who used the poor man as a stepping stone to boost his career even though he knew the man was innocent. The article said that prosecutorial misconduct is endemic - that this goes on all the time and no one ever holds corrupt prosecutors or police accountable for ruining lives. How many people were shot and killed by police and held accountable?

I read that psychopaths seek prosecutorial and law enforcement positions. I did some emails for the wrongfully convicted and nothing makes sense. I saw a man who spent many years in jail due to corrupt police and he said that he fears police now more than criminals. I began a prison ministry but it's depressing because prisons are a booming 'business' where the poor and non-connected go to jail and the politically connected get a promotion. Prisons actually pay lobbyists to influence politicians to enact harsher penalties so that more people are sent to prison. How can anyone be that evil? Even when I was unsaved I was never evil like that.

I feel as if I have no power to change things and I pray and my prayers go nowhere. I see evil prosper.

I know Psalm 73 - I've read it thousands of times. I just don't know how other believers cope with seeing all the evil and a God who remains aloof, and prayers said for many years don't yield answers.

Unofficial Reverand Alex · Aug 19, 2018

Coming here was certainly a good move; discussing these things tends to help things make more sense, or at least a little less extreme.

Don't think you're the only one who struggles with unanswered prayers; I've spent years praying for a girlfriend & an end to lust, and I'm still single, and one of my closest friends was almost raped at a frat party.

Trust in God is all you've got sometimes; "My peace I leave you, my peace I give to you." It will feel irrational or stupid at times, but God will get you through anything. Pay attention to the graces you've received throughout these trials, instead of just focusing on the bad; I can't tell you how many graces have come through my singleness, or through my friend almost getting raped. It's absolutely incredible what God can do when things look bleakest.

And remember Christ's words as He was dying on the cross: "Into Your hands I commend my spirit." I can tell you from experience that this is an exceptionally powerful prayer.

God be with you.

angeltrue · Aug 19, 2018

Unofficial Reverand Alex said:
Coming here was certainly a good move; discussing these things tends to help things make more sense, or at least a little less extreme.

Don't think you're the only one who struggles with unanswered prayers; I've spent years praying for a girlfriend & an end to lust, and I'm still single, and one of my closest friends was almost raped at a frat party.

Trust in God is all you've got sometimes; "My peace I leave you, my peace I give to you." It will feel irrational or stupid at times, but God will get you through anything. Pay attention to the graces you've received throughout these trials, instead of just focusing on the bad; I can't tell you how many graces have come through my singleness, or through my friend almost getting raped. It's absolutely incredible what God can do when things look bleakest.

And remember Christ's words as He was dying on the cross: "Into Your hands I commend my spirit." I can tell you from experience that this is an exceptionally powerful prayer.

God be with you.

Yes not much makes sense to me and every once in awhile I get down from unanswered prayer.

I know someone in a surrounding town who was raped at a party and no one was charged because the boy's grandfather was chief of police. Things are corrupt.

I'm sorry to hear you can't meet someone. My daughter was single for awhile after she divorced. She remarried and I don't think the man is a believer - or else he doesn't show any outward appearance. It troubles me. Her first husband was a believer, handsome, alpha-male - and a cheater. Go figure. He's still trying to get her back but she won't. He was a fool. Now he's contacting my other daughter. Our pastor is single and I don't understand that either - he's a good man. How old are you?

I was just reading an article about that yesterday - hormones keep being produced and I don't know that it's lust as much as hormones.

I go through this every once in awhile when I look at all the times I've begged God for help and He's remained aloof and long-time prayers are unanswered.

Unofficial Reverand Alex · Aug 19, 2018

angeltrue said:
Our pastor is single and I don't understand that either - he's a good man. How old are you?

I just turned 20, going into my second year of college. God's given me a lot of good friends, but no girlfriend since the first one, sophomore to junior year of high school. It's now been about 3 and a half years since I was dumped. I was a wreck for awhile, but it was through that wreck that God really showed His love & power. Sometimes the biggest disasters are where God's love is the brightest; she hurt me worse than I've ever been hurt before or since, but love conquers all, and God's love has brought me a long way.

angeltrue · Aug 19, 2018

Unofficial Reverand Alex said:
I just turned 20, going into my second year of college. God's given me a lot of good friends, but no girlfriend since the first one, sophomore to junior year of high school. It's now been about 3 and a half years since I was dumped. I was a wreck for awhile, but it was through that wreck that God really showed His love & power. Sometimes the biggest disasters are where God's love is the brightest; she hurt me worse than I've ever been hurt before or since, but love conquers all, and God's love has brought me a long way.

Good Lord you're so young! My pastor is in his late 40's and unmarried. He's such a nice man. I wish he would go on a dating site because he has so much to offer. I look at it that he's depriving a woman of meeting someone like him.

I don't think any of us escape feelings of rejection. My kids all had it. I didn't have boyfriends at your age. My parents had too many kids and I didn't have access to quality food, nice clothes, or any advantages. I didn't have a lot of dates before I married at 21 or 22. Then I had a lot of attention - after I married. It was pretty unfair! So I was a late bloomer.

I think you're probably better off because you have time to find yourself. The people you would want in your young years aren't necessarily the ones you would want when you're older.

You sound like you have your head on straight. I think you'll meet someone as long as you make yourself available. Today they have so many dating Apps and online dating. It's a lot easier to find people you're compatible with.

Chinchilla · Aug 19, 2018

angeltrue said:
I've been in prayer for years for certain things for my children and I and none of my heartfelt pleas were answered for them - or me. I've consistently seen evil people get away with horrendous misdeeds and harm others. Some of the wrongdoers have been 'Christians' and some in leadership positions.

God does not chastase the sons of the Devil because why would he if they would never believe anyways , he doesn't even give angels for thier protection .
Moreover Satan is not interested in attacking his children , so in fact evil people tend to look like nothing bad is happening to them , untill they die and enjoy thier eternal torments .

angeltrue said:
I'm at a rough time in my walk with God. I've lost the desire to read the bible because I don't get answers. I know all the Scriptures and have prayed and fasted and prayed and fasted to no avail. And then I see the wicked prosper. I was just reading about a man who was sent to jail by a corrupt prosecutor who used the poor man as a stepping stone to boost his career even though he knew the man was innocent. The article said that prosecutorial misconduct is endemic - that this goes on all the time and no one ever holds corrupt prosecutors or police accountable for ruining lives. How many people were shot and killed by police and held accountable?

Romans 12:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Revelation 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

angeltrue · Aug 19, 2018

Chinchilla said:
God does not chastase the sons of the Devil because why would he if they would never believe anyways , he doesn't even give angels for thier protection .
Moreover Satan is not interested in attacking his children , so in fact evil people tend to look like nothing bad is happening to them , untill they die and enjoy thier eternal torments .

Thanks for the reminder that Satan doesn't attack his own. I still feel weary that God's promises don't seem to ring true. I know I was spiritually reborn but it's been a hard road and God hasn't given me much help but He has allowed me to be attacked.

Romans 12:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Revelation 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Good verses. Just kind of weary waiting and waiting for years for answers.

Ann93 · Aug 20, 2018

I understand where you are coming from. God does answer our prayers but it is not always in our timing or how we think they should be answered. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22-23

Willing-heart · Aug 20, 2018

There is a saying “Persistence is like wrestling a Gorilla, you don’t give up when you’re tired, you only give up when that Gorilla is tired.” There is no place this persistence is most rewarding than on the knees of prayer, no battlefield victory is more certain than on the throne of Grace, no campaign where we are assured of strength, power, and ultimate triumph than in the prayer closet.

(Luke chapter 18) Jesus tells of the parable of the woman with a just cause and the unjust judge who at first refused to vindicate are just cause but eventually gave in because of her persistence wearing him out. How much more are we not going to vindicated by a just God when our cause is right or aligned with the will of God? Bold persistent prayer that is prayed according to the will of God will get God’s answer.

https://femiroyalblog.com/2017/05/06/fall-upon-your-knees/

GandalfTheWise · Aug 20, 2018

angeltrue said:
I feel as if I have no power to change things and I pray and my prayers go nowhere. I see evil prosper.
I know Psalm 73 - I've read it thousands of times. I just don't know how other believers cope with seeing all the evil and a God who remains aloof, and prayers said for many years don't yield answers.

There are burdens God means for us to carry; and then there are those we decide to load up on ourselves. Jesus describes his yoke as being easy and his burden light. When burdens start overwhelming us, it's worth considering which of the ones we carry are meant for us. It took me awhile to learn that lesson.

Moses saw his people being mistreated, wanted to do something about it, tried and failed, and it took God 40 years to get Moses ready to do something about it. Some people view those 40 years as a penalty for failure (and I did for awhile). Then I realized that Moses tried to change things as Egyptian royalty and nobility. God didn't plan for Moses to be a Jewish Pharaoh or military general. God planned for Moses to be a Hebrew prophet. It took 40 years herding sheep to change Moses from an educated Egyptian into a self-reliant Hebrew shepherd who was at home in the wilderness. All the time, the problems were still there with Pharaoh and the Egyptians oppressing Moses' people. It was just that God was getting Moses ready to go back and face Pharaoh in God's power as a Hebrew prophet.

When our focus becomes too fixed on the problems around us, we can lose sight that it is through God transforming us that we become the person God wants to be the reflect His glory and power to the world. When our prayers and thoughts become more focused on problems (no matter how important or worthy the cause) rather than on walking with God, becoming who He wants us to be, and spiritually growing, we weaken ourselves spiritually. There were times Jesus left off ministering (with people still waiting there) to go off and pray by Himself. It was not lack of love or apathy, it was a recognition that the power of ministry came from close communion with God which needed to be maintained.

When we reach a point where we lose sleep, we're physically, emotionally, and spiritually drained over worry, frustration, and anger, and ultimately hit a point where we think that we are more concerned over things than God is, it's likely we're either carrying around burdens we were not meant to carry at that time or we've weakened so much spiritually we cannot even carry the burdens we're meant to.

Hazelelponi · Aug 20, 2018

When your focus is on the world that is all you see, but God wants your focus on Him. Seek His Face, seek a relationship with the God of creation and not His Hand (power).

Then the rest will be added onto you.

The sun shines on the just and the unjust alike, the only reward some people will ever see for the good they do is received here in this life.. will you deny them their reward? Others are here only piling coals upon their heads, and vengeance is Mine saieth the Lord... Do you know better than the God of all creation that you would tell Him how to do His job?

For what others do to you forgive them just as you want Christ to forgive you.

I think perhaps you should look up total depravity of man, before you decide your better than people even when you were a sinner. None of us are better than them, and the only thing to separate us now from them is the love Christ had for us...

Rather, have sorrow for their loss because they truly don't know what they are missing, and love them enough to pray for their salvation, and perhaps spare some care for them and share your story of salvation with someone who needs to hear it.

Life can be hard, seem unfair... but we have rewards none of them can even imagine for our trials...

angeltrue · Aug 22, 2018

Ann93 said:
I understand where you are coming from. God does answer our prayers but it is not always in our timing or how we think they should be answered. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22-23

I'm glad others can identify with this. But it has brought me to a place of apathy. Why keep praying when no answer ever comes? Why even read the bible at all? I'm just in a valley right now. It's a hard place to be because I can't deny God yet I can't reconcile with a God who promises things He doesn't answer.

angeltrue · Aug 22, 2018

Willing-heart said:
There is a saying “Persistence is like wrestling a Gorilla, you don’t give up when you’re tired, you only give up when that Gorilla is tired.” There is no place this persistence is most rewarding than on the knees of prayer, no battlefield victory is more certain than on the throne of Grace, no campaign where we are assured of strength, power, and ultimate triumph than in the prayer closet.

(Luke chapter 18) Jesus tells of the parable of the woman with a just cause and the unjust judge who at first refused to vindicate are just cause but eventually gave in because of her persistence wearing him out. How much more are we not going to vindicated by a just God when our cause is right or aligned with the will of God? Bold persistent prayer that is prayed according to the will of God will get God’s answer.

https://femiroyalblog.com/2017/05/06/fall-upon-your-knees/

I know the verse. I prayed for 15 years - that's a long time and a lot of prayer. Nothing makes sense to me now.

angeltrue · Aug 22, 2018

GandalfTheWise said:
There are burdens God means for us to carry; and then there are those we decide to load up on ourselves. Jesus describes his yoke as being easy and his burden light. When burdens start overwhelming us, it's worth considering which of the ones we carry are meant for us. It took me awhile to learn that lesson.

Moses saw his people being mistreated, wanted to do something about it, tried and failed, and it took God 40 years to get Moses ready to do something about it. Some people view those 40 years as a penalty for failure (and I did for awhile). Then I realized that Moses tried to change things as Egyptian royalty and nobility. God didn't plan for Moses to be a Jewish Pharaoh or military general. God planned for Moses to be a Hebrew prophet. It took 40 years herding sheep to change Moses from an educated Egyptian into a self-reliant Hebrew shepherd who was at home in the wilderness. All the time, the problems were still there with Pharaoh and the Egyptians oppressing Moses' people. It was just that God was getting Moses ready to go back and face Pharaoh in God's power as a Hebrew prophet.

When our focus becomes too fixed on the problems around us, we can lose sight that it is through God transforming us that we become the person God wants to be the reflect His glory and power to the world. When our prayers and thoughts become more focused on problems (no matter how important or worthy the cause) rather than on walking with God, becoming who He wants us to be, and spiritually growing, we weaken ourselves spiritually. There were times Jesus left off ministering (with people still waiting there) to go off and pray by Himself. It was not lack of love or apathy, it was a recognition that the power of ministry came from close communion with God which needed to be maintained.

When we reach a point where we lose sleep, we're physically, emotionally, and spiritually drained over worry, frustration, and anger, and ultimately hit a point where we think that we are more concerned over things than God is, it's likely we're either carrying around burdens we were not meant to carry at that time or we've weakened so much spiritually we cannot even carry the burdens we're meant to.

That's insightful. My husband keeps telling me something similar - to become the person God wants me to be. I feel inadequate because I want to help effect change yet have no earthly power and it troubles me. Those who have power shouldn't. I read that psychopaths seek positions of power and have seen it. Then unanswered prayer is very hard to bear. I don't know how to reconcile the promises in the bible and a loving God with constant pain from unanswered prayer.

angeltrue · Aug 22, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
When your focus is on the world that is all you see, but God wants your focus on Him. Seek His Face, seek a relationship with the God of creation and not His Hand (power).

The lack of answers has given me apathy towards God.

Then the rest will be added onto you.

I'll try this but I've tried so many many times to do right and still no answers.

The sun shines on the just and the unjust alike, the only reward some people will ever see for the good they do is received here in this life.. will you deny them their reward? Others are here only piling coals upon their heads, and vengeance is Mine saieth the Lord... Do you know better than the God of all creation that you would tell Him how to do His job?

For what others do to you forgive them just as you want Christ to forgive you.

I think perhaps you should look up total depravity of man, before you decide your better than people even when you were a sinner. None of us are better than them, and the only thing to separate us now from them is the love Christ had for us...

I know I'm a sinner - God showed me when I was saved. It was a hard thing to face. But still, there seem to be degrees of evil. Some people are evil yet show up in positions of leadership.

Rather, have sorrow for their loss because they truly don't know what they are missing, and love them enough to pray for their salvation, and perhaps spare some care for them and share your story of salvation with someone who needs to hear it.

Life can be hard, seem unfair... but we have rewards none of them can even imagine for our trials...

In addition to unanswered prayers I was injured due to someone else's sin. I can't begin to say how hard it is to live with those results. Many times I've wished God would take me and I've told Him that many times. Equally pulling at me is my family and the desire to be here to help them - so it's a hard place to be. Very hard.

Hazelelponi · Aug 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
In addition to unanswered prayers I was injured due to someone else's sin. I can't begin to say how hard it is to live with those results. Many times I've wished God would take me and I've told Him that many times. Equally pulling at me is my family and the desire to be here to help them - so it's a hard place to be. Very hard.

I'm not speaking from a place where I don't understand.

I was injured by an abusive husband, now my ex-husband. I was beaten on such a regular basis I could count on it, I might never know exactly why I was going to endure the beating, but I knew there was going to be a reason and I couldn't avoid being that cause, and that the beating was going to occur beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Of course this results in broken bodies, and mine was no different. Hospitalized many times over it, even once had to have facial reconstruction surgery he got my face so bad.

But the last time he broke my back.. fractured vertebrae. I had two back surgeries to fix it and after being in a wheelchair for two years did regain the feeling back in my legs only to develop a disease called CRPS.

It's on the rare disease list with less than 20,000 in the United States having this disease. But it's basically a disease of the sympathetic nervous system and it is known as the most painful chronic pain disease that exists.

None of this was my fault. What? I ate dinner before he got home because he was late and I was hungry... that was why i got my back broken. That is why I will live in unimaginable pain til the day I die.

I have a lot in life I could be upset or angry about, I went through the death of my daughter when she was only 23 years old to top it all off.. held her hand while she died of cancer.

But you know what? It's all okay. Even here, in this place, with all this pain. I have God, and am loved beyond imagining. I dont need a God who is a Santa Claus to grant me all my wishes, I need a God who will hold my hand through it all like I held my daughters hand, and he's here, right here with me - holding my hand through it all.

I went looking for HIS face, and I found Him; it's the point of the entire exercise - our relationship with God.

I wasn't at all saved when all this happened, I hadn't even yet been saved when my daughter died, but that didn't stop me from being angry at God, I was a good person, I thought to myself. How could I deserve this?

I went through a lot to get to where I am today and I cant tell you I didnt grieve, I went through all the stages of grief, first for my physical body and then later for my daughter. But i made it through.

I do want to tell you that if your feeling suicidal then you do need to call someone, a suicide hotline to talk it through. My physical pain was so bad after my back was injured that I was suicidal but I made it through. You get help if you need to. Back then I would never imagined how good my life would turn out - but God has blessed me beyond what I deserve, and I'm so happy I made it to the other side of those dark days alive.

No matter what, you pray. Filled to overflowing with God's Holy Spirit there is nothing we can't face, nothing we can't overcome, and nothing we can't accomplish because it's His strength we go on and not our own.

Seek His Face, and you will find none of this matters. All that matters is Him. We don't need a God to give us our desires, we need a God who us there for us no matter what the world throws at us, who strengthens us... As scripture says:

But those who trust in the LORD will find new strength. They will soar high on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint. Isaiah 40:31

I can promise you fulfillment of that passage of scripture while you live, as I myself have found it in truth but to get there you have to look for God's Face - That means seek that real relationship with God. It's what He desires with us, a relationship.

Even in the darkest pits God is there with you. please look for Him. Seek His Face.

angeltrue · Aug 22, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
I'm not speaking from a place where I don't understand.

I was injured by an abusive husband, now my ex-husband. I was beaten on such a regular basis I could count on it, I might never know exactly why I was going to endure the beating, but I knew there was going to be a reason and I couldn't avoid being that cause, and that the beating was going to occur beyond any shadow of a doubt.

I'm so sorry.

Of course this results in broken bodies, and mine was no different. Hospitalized many times over it, even once had to have facial reconstruction surgery he got my face so bad.

But the last time he broke my back.. fractured vertebrae. I had two back surgeries to fix it and after being in a wheelchair for two years did regain the feeling back in my legs only to develop a disease called CRPS.

I also developed CRPS from it. It's a mean disorder.

It's on the rare disease list with less than 20,000 in the United States having this disease. But it's basically a disease of the sympathetic nervous system and it is known as the most painful chronic pain disease that exists.

I well know. I am forced to take pain medication due to it being so bad. I hate to because of the anti-opioid agenda now but if I didn't I would end my life - it's too bad.

None of this was my fault. What? I ate dinner before he got home because he was late and I was hungry... that was why i got my back broken. That is why I will live in unimaginable pain til the day I die.

I'm sorry - I too will bear these infirmities until the day God takes me.

I have a lot in life I could be upset or angry about, I went through the death of my daughter when she was only 23 years old to top it all off.. held her hand while she died of cancer.

I'm so sorry. I lost someone close and it hurts so bad I cannot think of it.

But you know what? It's all okay. Even here, in this place, with all this pain. I have God, and am loved beyond imagining. I dont need a God who is a Santa Claus to grant me all my wishes, I need a God who will hold my hand through it all like I held my daughters hand, and he's here, right here with me - holding my hand through it all.

I went looking for HIS face, and I found Him; it's the point of the entire exercise - our relationship with God.

I wasn't at all saved when all this happened, I hadn't even yet been saved when my daughter died, but that didn't stop me from being angry at God, I was a good person, I thought to myself. How could I deserve this?

I went through a lot to get to where I am today and I cant tell you I didnt grieve, I went through all the stages of grief, first for my physical body and then later for my daughter. But i made it through.

I too have gone through deep deep grief. The 'dark night of the soul' - but I'm very weary.

I do want to tell you that if your feeling suicidal then you do need to call someone, a suicide hotline to talk it through. My physical pain was so bad after my back was injured that I was suicidal but I made it through. You get help if you need to. Back then I would never imagined how good my life would turn out - but God has blessed me beyond what I deserve, and I'm so happy I made it to the other side of those dark days alive.

I'm not going to leave my family but I have asked God to take me a number of times. I do not want to leave my family with a terrible act. But it's God that I can't reconcile it all with. "Call unto me and I will answer thee..." Where? When? "How long O Lord?"

No matter what, you pray. Filled to overflowing with God's Holy Spirit there is nothing we can't face, nothing we can't overcome, and nothing we can't accomplish because it's His strength we go on and not our own.

Seek His Face, and you will find none of this matters. All that matters is Him. We don't need a God to give us our desires, we need a God who us there for us no matter what the world throws at us, who strengthens us... As scripture says:

But those who trust in the LORD will find new strength. They will soar high on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint. Isaiah 40:31

I can promise you fulfillment of that passage of scripture while you live, as I myself have found it in truth but to get there you have to look for God's Face - That means seek that real relationship with God. It's what He desires with us, a relationship.

Even in the darkest pits God is there with you. please look for Him. Seek His Face.

Been there done that. I'm beyond having done all that. I'm limping my way to the finish line and really don't like this life. I've been in church - I know the false smiles with the sad eyes - but I face it - this life is bad and where is God?

I'm struggling in the depths of my being. It all seems pointless. Really why do I want to go the heaven and live forever with a God who allowed my family and I to hurt and He turned His back?

I spoke with a lawyer who turned from God after handling priest sex abuse cases. I knew he felt similar things to me. He said "there is no God, that's why you're damaged."

What could I say? "Yes there is a God but He sits back and allows innocent children to be violated by those pretending to represent God?" How can you come to terms with that?

I'm at a deep and harsh time in my faith. When I was dealing with horrendous physical problems, the worst thing happened - it made no sense. It was bad. After I worked through a year of that my father passed. My psycho sister got a corrupt lawyer to try to forcibly take money that was left to me away from me. The betrayal was horrible, and a corrupt lawyer worked in the probate office who sabotaged me. Yet that was not as horrible as what another Christian did to me. I still saw no action by God for the most vile sin imaginable.

So where is God? That's where I'm at. I know all the promises but they're a shadow - I reach for them and they disappear.

I'm in another dark night of the soul.

Hazelelponi · Aug 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
Been there done that. I'm beyond having done all that. I'm limping my way to the finish line and really don't like this life. I've been in church - I know the false smiles with the sad eyes - but I face it - this life is bad and where is God?

I'm struggling in the depths of my being. It all seems pointless. Really why do I want to go the heaven and live forever with a God who allowed my family and I to hurt and He turned His back?

I spoke with a lawyer who turned from God after handling priest sex abuse cases. I knew he felt similar things to me. He said "there is no God, that's why you're damaged."

What could I say? "Yes there is a God but He sits back and allows innocent children to be violated by those pretending to represent God?" How can you come to terms with that?

I'm at a deep and harsh time in my faith. When I was dealing with horrendous physical problems, the worst thing happened - it made no sense. It was bad. After I worked through a year of that my father passed. My psycho sister got a corrupt lawyer to try to forcibly take money that was left to me away from me. The betrayal was horrible, and a corrupt lawyer worked in the probate office who sabotaged me. Yet that was not as horrible as what another Christian did to me. I still saw no action by God for the most vile sin imaginable.

So where is God? That's where I'm at. I know all the promises but they're a shadow - I reach for them and they disappear.

I'm in another dark night of the soul.

God didn't leave you. He never turned His back on you.. that is what your not seeing.

A couple things I'd like to point out. When I tell you to seek a relationship with God you speak of church - However, that is not necessarily where you find that relationship with God.

Church is full of people who need God, who may have, as individuals, found God in part, as a whole, or not at all. It's mixed bag there, the wheat and tares growing together.

So, while God is with His people, if someone tells you to look for a relationship with God and you speak of going to church, then it appears you might not understand the directive.

God is a personal God offering you a chance for a personal relationship with Him. You find that relationship then, not in a corporeal environment, but a personal one. In sincere, heartfelt, quiet prayer just you and God.

That is where you will find your answers.. that is where you will know love, the pure, deep love of God.

A relationship with His people is a reflection of your relationship with Him. And yes. The state of many churches is a reflection on the spiritual health of its people, and in many cases it's not good. But oddly, it's rather like the same boat your in - a more sickly spiritual health and more oddly, why we say we need church, because we are in need of doctor and there we can find scripture expounded upon which points us to the doctor and the prescription we need most.

The question of why does God allow bad things to happen, well quite frankly He had no desire for slaves. He wanted a relationship with people who wanted to have that relationship with Him. Anything less would be slavery, and not right.

The upside to people not being mindless slaves, is freedom. God doesnt need to force anyone, He is God and nothing can diminish that.

And we learn through it. We need opposing factors to see the truth of a thing..

How can we truly understand cold without understanding heat? How can we know good without knowing also evil? How can we appreciate freedom unless we first know slavery?

To really know, understand or appreciate a thing we must know that which is opposite to it.. See the range of it.

When you know hate, love is all the sweeter and more beautiful, you find the purity of love only through knowing the dirt of hate..

When you know evil, you understand the blessing that Good really is.

We needed that, and the fall is proof. I'll keep you in my prayers.

GandalfTheWise · Aug 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
That's insightful. My husband keeps telling me something similar - to become the person God wants me to be. I feel inadequate because I want to help effect change yet have no earthly power and it troubles me. Those who have power shouldn't. I read that psychopaths seek positions of power and have seen it. Then unanswered prayer is very hard to bear. I don't know how to reconcile the promises in the bible and a loving God with constant pain from unanswered prayer.

The world around us mirrors what is really inside of people. The real work of the kingdom of God is changing the world one heart at a time. There will be a time when God takes out the trash once and for all and throws it onto the biggest fire the universe has ever seen and implements His kingdom on earth and then all those things that cause pain will be gone. In the mean time, He is giving everyone the opportunity to not be thrown out with the trash. When we start to see *every* human being (including ourselves and others) as a unique creation of God (but deeply corrupted, damaged, and imperfect at the moment and in need of God's transformation and healing) who is intended to reflect God's glory in some unique way, the world looks different. Who does God intend for those pedophiles to become? Yes, I think something needs to be done to protect children from them as they are right now!! There are some people I'd never let my grandchildren anywhere near. But, deep inside, who does God intend for them to be? What would they look like as the unique person God wants them to become?

Until that day when God overthrows every earthly system and implements His own perfect one, there are two ways to a "utopian" world. The first is by force and coercion where only a facade of peace will exist and ultimately what is inside of those in power will start to show itself. No matter how a political, economic, or societal system is set up, there will always be centers of power that allow what is inside of people to come out. Those centers of power will usually end up being filled with people who seek power for their own purposes. No matter how noble the initial reformers and implementers of a better political, economic, or societal system are, over time they will be replaced by those who will use the new system to their advantage.

The second way, and I believe God's way, is to fundamentally change people from the inside. He wants a world where we truly love and have compassion for each other from deep inside, not enforced behavior where something bad will happen if we don't act the right way. God wants true change in people, not merely enforced behavior. When things such as the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control) are accurate descriptive characteristics of what we are all like inside, we will have a much better world. When our "patience" comes from controlling our anger by learning anger management techniques or being isolated in jail to protect others from our outbursts, we are merely mitigating the real problem of anger to some extent. However, if our patience is deeply rooted inside of us where we simply do not get angry, we are then truly patient, not just acting like it sometimes. Each person that we influence for the kingdom becomes a person who will influence others for the kingdom. In a common parlance, when God's kingdom goes viral in people's lives, large scale change will be the result.

My opinion is that Christian efforts to reform society that are not primarily rooted in person by person change are doomed to failure. It does not mean we do not use means and tools at our disposal to do right as we can and get involved to mitigate problems, but we need to recognize that those efforts can merely reduce symptoms to some extent, not change the fundamental problem. It does not mean we don't become involved in some way in promoting change, be we have to be cognizant that without person by person change across society, we are potentially replacing one system that can be abused with another system that can be abused. We may not have the earthly power to change things right now. But we do have the spiritual power to start influencing lives one at a time. At some point, that one life that touched one life that touched another life will hit a point where it becomes a powerful wholesale change that tangibly affects society around us.

GandalfTheWise · Aug 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
Been there done that. I'm beyond having done all that. I'm limping my way to the finish line and really don't like this life. I've been in church - I know the false smiles with the sad eyes - but I face it - this life is bad and where is God?

I'm struggling in the depths of my being. It all seems pointless. Really why do I want to go the heaven and live forever with a God who allowed my family and I to hurt and He turned His back?

[....]

I'm in another dark night of the soul.

FWIW, we have family friend whose story went something like this. Her father sexually abused her for close to a decade. It ended when as a teen she mentioned something to someone. He ended up in jail, the family lost its bread winner and ended up splitting up due to both finances and the emotional fall out of blame in many directions. She not only bore the shame and pain of that decade of incest, but blamed herself for completely splitting up her family. Each holiday was a reminder that she felt it was her fault that her family wasn't together. It took many years, but over time, as she phrased it, God didn't want me continuing bearing burdens that He never intended me to carry. As she phrased it, God wanted to heal me of those things. It took some time, but as she described it. Her father had died, but she said she reached a point where she forgave him. She said for the first time in her life, she saw him through eyes of sadness of the terrible things that happened to him when he was young that had left him alone and addicted to alcohol and sexual perversion that ended up causing him to destroy his family.

In addition to this friend, I've personally known a few other women who endured chronic incest and other abuse that God healed. The scars and experiences remain, but it is no longer a festering wound that is slowly draining life from them. For one young woman (whose father sold her as a prostitute when she was a pre-teen), this came to a head when she was ready to get married and realized she wanted nothing to do with sex. In the months before her wedding, God healed her emotionally of many things and restored a newness and innocence that she thought was impossible.

There is a ministry called Transformation Prayer that was active in our church (that both of these women mention as explicitly as being part of how God healed them). Their web site is at http://www.transformationprayer.org . There is a 50 minute video on that site describing how this ministry originally started within a pastoral counseling ministry focused on women who had suffered abuse. It's at this link. http://www.transformationprayer.org/introduction-to-transformation-prayer-ministry/

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