Will many people enter heaven?

RaymondG said:

People who dont love money, do not do this.

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That's what the verses I quoted say about material things. I'm simply saying based on what I read.

I recommend to read the whole book of 1 John. It seems to be one of the most ignored books in the modern church.

timewerx said:

That's what the verses I quoted say about material things. I'm simply saying based on what I read.

I recommend to read the whole book of 1 John. It seems to be one of the most ignored books in the modern church.

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I read it.....but I see a way to eternal life......not a book about how much money and material possessions to have or give away. I would need to reread it and have money and wealth on my mind to see money and wealth in that book......and I would rather search for life in it..... Life that cant be purchased, Life that cant be gained by giving up anything material... Life that is a free gift, there for the taking.....if only I search for it and find it. And I cant do this, with my mind on money....mine or others......I cannot serve two masters.

RaymondG said:

I read it.....but I see a way to eternal life......not a book about how much money and material possessions to have or give away. I would need to reread it and have money and wealth on my mind to see money and wealth in that book......and I would rather search for life in it..... Life that cant be purchased, Life that cant be gained by giving up anything material... Life that is a free gift, there for the taking.....if only I search for it and find it. And I cant do this, with my mind on money....mine or others......I cannot serve two masters.

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Yes, that's how you read (scrutinize / test) the Bible.

Try to understand it from as much perspective as you can. Spiritual, material / physical, hostile invading force, etc.

I even read it from a social (control / mass deception) perspective - The Bible used as a tool to pacify / justify the poor and the slaves to keep them from rebelling.

I'm aware of the saying "religion is the opium" of the poor. And it seems plausible in some ways that religion may be used (deliberately) to pacify the poor because of many teachings in the Bible favoring the poor.

This is why I never said anything to leave your job or other means of making money as long as it's honest and fair. But rather use that money to strengthen each other, not just ourselves as one body in Christ.

timewerx said:

Yes, that's how you read (scrutinize / test) the Bible.

Try to understand it from as much perspective as you can. Spiritual, material / physical, hostile invading force, etc.

I even read it from a social (control / mass deception) perspective - The Bible used as a tool to pacify / justify the poor and the slaves to keep them from rebelling.

I'm aware of the saying "religion is the opium" of the poor. And it seems plausible in some ways that religion may be used (deliberately) to pacify the poor because of many teachings in the Bible favoring the poor.

This is why I never said anything to leave your job or other means of making money as long as it's honest and fair. But rather use that money to strengthen each other, not just ourselves as one body in Christ.

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You are still talking about money and jobs and possessions. Do you know a way to heaven that doesn't involve giving money or making sure you have little money? Or does all your roads to heaven involve money in some way?

RaymondG said:

You are still talking about money and jobs and possessions. Do you know a way to heaven that doesn't involve giving money or making sure you have little money? Or does all your roads to heaven involve money in some way?

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There's only one way to eternal life and that is believing in Jesus.

However, there's mainly two things the book of 1st John tells that one's belief in Christ is questionable. Also read John 14:12.

One is unrepenting in sin, the other is lack of love for our brothers and sisters (unwillingness to provide substantial help to our brothers and sisters in much greater need than ourselves where money is a factor) - 1 John 3:16-18 and 1 John 4:8

Another is love for the things of this world where again, money is a factor. - 1 John 2:15-17

Additional verses (better if you read the whole book of 1st John):
1 John 4:20, 1 John 2:9, 1 John 3:14

These verses say, one can say they believe in Christ but if the fruits they bear show they don't really know and doesn't love God, still living in darkness and abides in death, does it mean they truly believe in Christ? Can someone who still abides in death have eternity?

All points to one thing and the main topic of this thread, how many will enter heaven and doesn't seem like a lot as the scriptures have said.


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throughfireytrial said:

But then please read...all Israel will be saved...not all Israel is Israel. They aren't all true believers.

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Israel can be seen as being the true Israel who truly follows the Father, not false Israelites. Of course there are false Israelites, just as the Bible says there are false Jews. Also, by my remembrance "all Israel will be saved" follows after the horrors of the tribulation have wiped out vast numbers of people. Therefore it looks to me like the Israel being saved will be the remnant. It was always the remnant that was saved after catastrophe struck from foreign, pagan, nations - foreign nations sent by guess Whom? By the Lord because of Israel, and the Jews in particular, falling away from His ways.

Milos said:

Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I was honestly shocked once I read this. I had the thought that many people would enter heaven because this is what people have told me. And when speaking to a teacher he told me they consult to their pride rather than the Gods word.

What do you think?

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Mathematically speaking
you live forever in the next life.

If you compare 1 x infinity
with 1 billion times infinity
the results are equal.

Milos said:

Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I was honestly shocked once I read this. I had the thought that many people would enter heaven because this is what people have told me. And when speaking to a teacher he told me they consult to their pride rather than the Gods word.

What do you think?

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1. Jesus says "FEW" were finding it (Mt.7:13-14)
2. Paul says "MANY" will be saved (Rom.5:18-19)

Both are right.

Jesus was referring to the situation at His time in the first century, not final destiny.

Bible versions don't say "few will EVER find it". This Greek Interliner says "finding":

Matthew 7:14 Interlinear: how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

Young's Literal Translation
how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

Matthew 7:14 is in the present tense, few "finding" it, speaking of that particular time, not of final destiny. Earlier in Matthew final destiny was already revealed re salvation:

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

"Pay attention to the Greek verb tenses.
“Enter (eiselthate | εἰσέλθατε | aor act imperative 2 pl) through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and easy the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter(eiserchomenoi | εἰσερχόμενοι | pres mid ptcp nom pl masc) through it. Matt 7:13"

"How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and few are those who find (heuriskontes | εὑρίσκοντες | pres act ptcp nom pl masc) it! Matt 7:14"

"In v.13 the word for 'enter' is the Greek word 'eiserchomenoi' which as noted is a present tense participle more accurately translated as 'entering.' Thus all this verse is saying is that there are many who are presently entering the wide gate. This verse does not refer at all to sometime in the future where people may or may not be resurrected out of the lake of fire. If it did, this verse would employ the future tense of the verb - but it doesn't. We can only say what this verse states - simply that when Jesus spoke these words, many are entering the broad gate/road."

"Same thing with v.14. The word for 'find' is 'heuriskontes' which is a present tense participle. Thus few people are currently 'finding' the narrow gate. No reference at all to the future."

Note the word "many", not "few":

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All. Those will He "justify" (Isa.53:11).

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Milos said:

Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I was honestly shocked once I read this. I had the thought that many people would enter heaven because this is what people have told me. And when speaking to a teacher he told me they consult to their pride rather than the Gods word.

What do you think?

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There is scripture formatting that causes a problem. “Enter through the narrow gate." is not the beginning sentence of that section. The passage is about judging others.

If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

If you trust man's words/ man's statistics, of the world, you already failed
and Yahweh says He Himself curses those , anyone, who trusts in man .

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Men who penned the scriptures exempted?
The person writing your posts?

Milos said:

Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I was honestly shocked once I read this. I had the thought that many people would enter heaven because this is what people have told me. And when speaking to a teacher he told me they consult to their pride rather than the Gods word.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

One times infinity is a huge number. So only one has to make it through to celebrate.

Milos said:

Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I was honestly shocked once I read this. I had the thought that many people would enter heaven because this is what people have told me. And when speaking to a teacher he told me they consult to their pride rather than the Gods word.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

Yes I agree and I believe these type of Scriptures should convince most Christians to rethink their outlook on Christianity. Scripture does speak of multitudes but that would be of all the ages since the dawn of man. Weed grows faster than wheat so it should be no surprise that the majority goes lost. Every generation have a handful of people that were saved.

Let's look at some other Scriptures...

Matthew 24:37

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Luke 17

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Noah's day eight people were save compared to the majority. Sodom's day three people was saved out of those cities.

The majority Israelites that came out of Egypt was not save either. Jesus said they were all dead. John 6:49

1 Peter 4 :18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

I think it is pretty clear.