Are we mixed with giants or angels ?

nonaeroterraqueous

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In or out of heaven, fallen or not--angels can not reproduce, they are all males, they were never created for reproduction...

You make a lot of assertions that seem to have no basis. If they were all males then their sex means nothing. They would be all neuter if they were not made to reproduce. The fact that they did not reproduce does not necessarily mean that they couldn't or that they never had, previously. We know nothing about the history of angels. We have no record in the Creation account of when or how they were made. The Bible doesn't describe angels very well, except when describing the extremely strange seraphim that surround the throne of God. Other than those, we don't really know what they looked like, their social character, history, gender, or even their relationship to our physical world.

I mean, you may be right on every point, but the way I see it, your claims are not based on anything. The Book of Enoch could be a complete work of fiction and it would shed more light on understanding the Genesis account than the assumptions I see being made on the other side of the matter.
 
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JacksBratt

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We can't lift up some of these stones today we don't have such cranes in existance.
We cannot cut them that cleanly, lift them, move them, place them or organize them with the artistic and functionality that they did... they have lasted, many believe, through the flood, in many cases.
 
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JackRT

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And you just fail to understand the engenuity of our species and the ability of men to work out how to do a thing. So just because you or those you read from spend an hour or two thinking it can't be done you think that settles it.

They have actually worked out many of these problems.

Stonehenge could have been built with 20 men. Dragging the stones into place would have taken much more manpower and a lot of time.

Dragging the blocks of the pyramids into place on log rollers was not the case. The blocks were turned into cylinders by attaching a wooden framework to the sides and they were rolled into place.

They were clever people and good engineers --- nothing magical about any of this.
 
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JackRT

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We cannot cut them that cleanly, lift them, move them, place them or organize them with the artistic and functionality that they did... they have lasted, many believe, through the flood, in many cases.

What flood?
 
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mmksparbud

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There is no scripture that says this. It only says that "like the angels in heaven who do not marry and are not given in marriage".

This has no basis but is necessary for you to deny that angels had sex with humans.

By the way, women, today, are admitting that they have sex with demonic entities..
We do not know what the capabilities of these fallen ones are.[/QUOTE

LOL!! If Jesus said it--that is enough! You are assuming that God would create "and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;" of these beings, create them with the ability to reproduce, but give them no partners to have sex with?? They are all male and have lived for eons and eons and until Lucifer fell---all lived very happily together without sex. God does not approve of same sex joining--or sex outside of marriage---no marriage, no sex--simple. God is not cruel. He would not create these 10000s of beings with the desire to have sex and then give them absolutely no way for that to happen! And then you claim that only 200 of the 1000's that fell were able to do so-- who gave them that ability?---Certainly not Satan! He can not create. So he, also, decided to have 1000's and 1000's of his followers, all evil and lecherous---but not allow them to have sex either!!! Seriously???!! They were created as messengers of God. There is nothing that states they were given the command to be fruitful and multiply and unless God says so---it doesn't happen.
NTW--women today also claim to have been seduced, and fathered children, by movie stars that has been proven to have never met them and DNA proved the child not his.There are women who hasve all the sings and symptoms of pregnany, clmolete with a huge belly--and no actusl pregnancy---even Pandas do that--look it up, one just did it.
 
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mmksparbud

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OOps--hit the reply button at the wrong time---click to exland ln the other post,

Also, check out the angels that came to save lot and his family... they were so human looking that the people of Sodom wanted to have sex with them. They even turned down Lot's stupid and odd suggestion that they take his virgin daughters instead.... just WOW...

Yes--they can "look human"-0that does bot mean they actually are. Fallen angels can also appear as animals--doesn't mean thry become them in all aspects.

Actually, they were created to serve us. This is one reason why Satan is so mad... because he, a beautiful creation, is subordinate to us.... in the end that is.

They were created long, long before we were. And we are still lower than they and therefore not our kind and we can not reproduce with them.

Seriously... "pure in his generations" means he was a godly man?

From: https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/perfect-in-his-generations-follow-up/

But man has been in similar spiritual condition for all of his existence.



Something extraordinary happened to cause the Lord to destroy nearly every man and animal in the flood, and

that something was Satan’s contamination of the gene pool.

According to God’s law the Kinsman Redeemer had to be a man.

He couldn’t be an angel or any kind of a hybrid.


Noah carried the uncontaminated human gene across the flood and made it possible for Jesus to be born.

Seriously??---Quotes from erroneous sources are still in error!! You could quote the Kama Sutra stating that angels mated with humans--does not make it true!! Bottom line. The Hebrew wording of Gen 6:9 is still

These are the birthings of No'ahh, No'ahh was a steadfast one and mature man in his generations,
No'ahh walked himself with the Elohiym,
http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mtt/G6.html

Not one single thing about blood lines.

Nowhere does it compare them to before or after the flood. It does not say "they were giants back then"... It says that there were Giants in those days.... meaning apart from the other normal people.... however tall they were... these things were taller.

Doesn't say apart from normal people! That you have added to try to make your theory work-it doesn't. It just means there were giants in those days and so there were for Adam and Eve were and also their children. Everything you claim is speculation---completely. Nothing to do with the actual word of God, nothing to do with the character of God, nothing to do even with the character of fallen angels---They build giant structures for themselves??--structures that were actually temples to animal gods?? My speculations at least come from the actual words of God, from what His character is all about and from what the character of Satan and his followers are. You leap into wild speculations that mare the very character of God and have no basses in the Hebrew meaning of the words in scripture.
There is no reason for Satan to give anyone knowledge about building anything, or to improve their lives, nor to express beauty through art---knowledge comes from God, what Satan gives is only for evil, never for our own benefit. Satan turns what God gives into evil, not the other way around.
The 1st death was done by God himself--
Gen_3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them
That was to signify the death of the innocent Chris--Satan turned that around into the sacrificing of humans and children. That is the character of Satan.
 
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mmksparbud

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You make a lot of assertions that seem to have no basis. If they were all males then their sex means nothing. They would be all neuter if they were not made to reproduce. The fact that they did not reproduce does not necessarily mean that they couldn't or that they never had, previously. We know nothing about the history of angels. We have no record in the Creation account of when or how they were made. The Bible doesn't describe angels very well, except when describing the extremely strange seraphim that surround the throne of God. Other than those, we don't really know what they looked like, their social character, history, gender, or even their relationship to our physical world.

I mean, you may be right on every point, but the way I see it, your claims are not based on anything. The Book of Enoch could be a complete work of fiction and it would shed more light on understanding the Genesis account than the assumptions I see being made on the other side of the matter.


No more than these assertions and speculations--mine are derived from the Hebrew meaning of the word of God, from the character or God, from the character of Satan. They point to God as the author of all that is good, beautiful, and true not to the false power of fallen angels.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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These are not "authoritative skeptics". These are archeologists and searchers of truth where truth is cloaked and shunned.

I believe it is you that is the skeptic. Sorry, but that's my take on this. You are skeptical that these were constructed by ultra intelligent beings with lost technology that we cannot duplicate.

Take some time and look into this.

You and I are both skeptics of the other, of course. In your mind, there was an otherwise unknown intelligence outside of homo sapiens responsible for these constructions. In my mind, there was an otherwise unknown set of techniques used by homo sapiens within the technology of their time responsible for these constructions. Each of us considers the direction of explanation the other takes to be impossible. So there we are.
 
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JacksBratt

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They have actually worked out many of these problems.

Stonehenge could have been built with 20 men. Dragging the stones into place would have taken much more manpower and a lot of time.

Dragging the blocks of the pyramids into place on log rollers was not the case. The blocks were turned into cylinders by attaching a wooden framework to the sides and they were rolled into place.

They were clever people and good engineers --- nothing magical about any of this.
The moving of these is just one of the numerous problems here. Even if they could move them and lift them into place... there is still a myriad of other issues that remain unexplained.

But, nice regurgitation of speculated scenarios for the moving part. All of which are just assumptions and many of which require wood that either wasn't available or not strong enough to support the weight.

Don't worry, it's always the answer..."They used logs and wood".... but, not possible in reality.
 
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JacksBratt

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You and I are both skeptics of the other, of course. In your mind, there was an otherwise unknown intelligence outside of homo sapiens responsible for these constructions. In my mind, there was an otherwise unknown set of techniques used by homo sapiens within the technology of their time responsible for these constructions. Each of us considers the direction of explanation the other takes to be impossible. So there we are.
You're right, There we are.

Time will tell and God will reveal all. God Bless.
 
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mmksparbud

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Time will expose all. Skeptics will have their eyes opened. "LOL" all you want.

Yes, all eyes will be opened. To the true power, the magnificence of God and the perfection of His creation. His perfect beings who fell, will regain that perfection of mind and body, and all eyes will see that fallen angels had nothing to do with what man could accomplish on their own. They only lead man to death and destruction--they want only what brings death and destruction to body and soul. They rob man of their mental, spiritual and physical abilities--they do not ever enhance them.

Psa 59:8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
 
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Postvieww

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There is nothing about blood lines in the Genesis account, pure in his generations means just that--Noah was a Godly man, not one word about blood in any of the account.

This is the transliteration of Gen. 6:9
These are the birthings of No'ahh, No'ahh was a steadfast one and mature man in his generations, No'ahh walked himself with the Elohiym,

Nothing to do with bloodline.

Wrong!

Genesis 6: 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

If Shem. Ham, and Japheth are not the “generations” of Noah what else in the passage can be the “these” in verse 9?

Are not Noah’s “birthings” his bloodline?

Your explaining away of this passage does not work!
 
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mmksparbud

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Wrong!

Genesis 6: 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

If Shem. Ham, and Japheth are not the “generations” of Noah what else in the passage can be the “these” in verse 9?

Are not Noah’s “birthings” his bloodline?

Your explaining away of this passage does not work!

You interpretation of this passage does not work!! It is completely put of context.



9 THESE (אֵלֶּה / ey'leh) BIRTHING~s (תּוֹלְדֹת / tol'dot) No'ahh (נֹחַ / no'ahh) No'ahh (נֹחַ / no'ahh) MAN (אִישׁ / ish) STEADFAST.ONE (צַדִּיק / tsa'diq) WHOLE (תָּמִים / ta'mim) he~did~EXIST(Verb) (הָיָה / hai'yah) in~GENERATION~s~him (בְּדֹרֹתָיו / bê'do'ro'taw) AT (אֶת / et) the~Elohiym (הָאֱלֹהִים / ha'e'lo'him) he~did~self~WALK(Verb) (הִתְהַלֶּךְ / hit'ha'lekh) No'ahh (נֹחַ / no'ahh)

These are the birthings of No'ahh, No'ahh was a steadfast one and mature man in his generations, No'ahh walked himself with the Elohiym,

BIRTHING (fem. תולדה / tol'dah) The act or process of bringing forth offspring from the womb. Total of the children born within an era. | Strong's: #8435

Steadfast and mature has nothing to do with bloodlines!!!
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Are you being serious?
He is perfectly serious in that it is quite clear there was never a flood over the whole globe. This is shown by, for example, the 400,000 years of annual layers of ice laid down in the polar regions. These layers could not have survived a flood that reached that part. Clearly, the flood was all the world known to Noah.
 
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JacksBratt

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He is perfectly serious in that it is quite clear there was never a flood over the whole globe. This is shown by, for example, the 400,000 years of annual layers of ice laid down in the polar regions. These layers could not have survived a flood that reached that part. Clearly, the flood was all the world known to Noah.
Clearly Jesus did not die and come back to life. It is clear, through medical science, that you cannot live if you have been flogged, hung on a cross and have a spear thrust into your heart.

If the bible is not truth...... then.....

Clearly, the flood was all the world known to Noah = Clearly, Jesus didn't come back to life... must have been a look alike...No man could have survived that.

You want to cherry pick what you believe or don't, that's fine. Go ahead.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes, all eyes will be opened. To the true power, the magnificence of God and the perfection of His creation. His perfect beings who fell, will regain that perfection of mind and body, and all eyes will see that fallen angels had nothing to do with what man could accomplish on their own. They only lead man to death and destruction--they want only what brings death and destruction to body and soul. They rob man of their mental, spiritual and physical abilities--they do not ever enhance them.

Psa 59:8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
Well, that's kind of arrogant....

"all eyes will see that fallen angels had nothing to do with what man could accomplish on their own".....

I'm trying to state the, in the end, whoever is right will be shown to be right...you, on the other hand are saying "in the end, I'll be proven right".... Well, good for you. Must be nice to be so correct all the time.

Just how did "man" do this:
upload_2018-7-17_6-47-12.jpeg


images


1457938605.jpg


Oh... and check this one:

images
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Clearly Jesus did not die and come back to life. It is clear, through medical science, that you cannot live if you have been flogged, hung on a cross and have a spear thrust into your heart.

If the bible is not truth...... then.....

Clearly, the flood was all the world known to Noah = Clearly, Jesus didn't come back to life... must have been a look alike...No man could have survived that.

You want to cherry pick what you believe or don't, that's fine. Go ahead.

Evidence counts with me, I'm sorry you don't like that.
 
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mmksparbud

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Well, that's kind of arrogant....

"all eyes will see that fallen angels had nothing to do with what man could accomplish on their own".....

I'm trying to state the, in the end, whoever is right will be shown to be right...you, on the other hand are saying "in the end, I'll be proven right".... Well, good for you. Must be nice to be so correct all the time.

Just how did "man" do this:
View attachment 234378

images


1457938605.jpg


Oh... and check this one:

images

No--that is not what I said--In the end---GOD'S PEFECTION WILL BE SHOWN. It is not who is right, but the bible, Abd it says nothing about bloodlines and the so called powers of Satan. I very clearly said
Yes, all eyes will be opened. To the true power, the magnificence of God and the perfection of His creation.

Man could do this on his own for the very fact that what God created was far superior to what our puny little brains and bodies are capable of today.
why did you take a portion of my statement and twist it around to sound like I said something else and then call me arrogant?---That is the kind of thing that you people do with the scriptures to suit your own ideas. The arrogance is not coming from me, but yourself.
As to how man did this---we will all get to find out when they tell us.
 
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