God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

98cwitr said:

Expanding from this very popular thread, I'd like to provide contrary evidence to the majority vote with the following scripture that we all seem to hold as a universal truth that is contextual accurate when talking about what love is and isn't:

1 Cor. 13:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

So if this is our understood standard where God is Love, then how can we reject Universalism in that people go to hell, but are still loved by God.

I think we all can agree on the following:

>People go to hell because of their sin
>People are not forgiven of their sin due to disbelief and lack of real saving faith

If the above is universally true, then it stands to reason that God is keeping a record of their wrongdoing, but we see from the above accepted definition of love, that real love keeps no record of wrongs, therefore if Love = no record of wrongs, then all sin is forgiven if God loves you. If your sin is not forgiven, then it is still apparent, damning, and recorded. Therefore God, in keeping a record of your sin and withholding forgiveness, cannot love you as love is defined above.

I welcome you to change my mind on this. I've prayed over it and have yet to have a change in my own understanding.

Click to expand...

Hebrews 12(6): For WHOM the Lord loves ! : WHOM the lord loves is not everybody !!!

The Lord loves everybody, but does not ultimately "approve" of everyone, in the end...

He wishes that they would all attain to repentance, and in that way loves everyone, but those that ultimately do not, he disapproves of, and loves no longer, for they have rejected him, not just once, but over and over, again and again... Till it reaches a "certain point" (that the Lord knows), that he then removes his love and/or approval of or from them...

True repentance is a drastic change of mind and heart toward love and faith, (in Christ) that is altogether very different from what they formerly were before that...

God Bless!

If God didn't love sinners, why would he make garments for Adam and Eve to cover up their nakedness after they betrayed him? Why would he send Jesus Christ to die for people's sin? Why would he forgive Peter after he denied Christ three times? Why would he give everyone a chance to repent no matter what they have been through? I think it's pretty clear how loving God is. He is all light and his love surpasses our understanding.

To all:

Jesus said

Luke 6 - 27. But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,”

Apparently some don’t hear this

This should end the discussion, but somehow it doesn’t

God’s love is not in or upon those who are in unbelief but his love is toward them as scripture teaches

LoveofTruth said:

To all:

Jesus said

Luke 6 - 27. But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,”

Apparently some don’t hear this

This should end the discussion, but somehow it doesn’t

God’s love is not in or upon those who are in unbelief but his love is toward them as scripture teaches

Click to expand...

His love is definitely toward us who are His foreknown people.
The world is excluded, the world does not know us or know God.
God sent His Son into the world, so that we were enabled to live through Him. He made US alive who were dead because of His great love for us, He died for us..

1 John 3:1 [ The Command to Love ] Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

1 John 3:16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we
also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 4:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Hammster said:

Why should it end the discussion?

Click to expand...

Because God loves believers and we are told to even love our enemies love is towards all

Neogaia777 said:

The Lord loves everybody, but does not ultimately "approve" of everyone, in the end...

He wishes that they would all attain to repentance, and in that way loves everyone, but those that ultimately do not, he disapproves of, and loves no longer, for they have rejected him, not just once, but over and over, again and again... Till it reaches a "certain point" (that the Lord knows), that he then removes his love and/or approval of or from them...

True repentance is a drastic change of mind and heart toward love and faith, (in Christ) that is altogether very different from what they formerly were before that...

God Bless!

Click to expand...

Heb 12(6): For " WHOM " the Lord loves ! : WHOM THE lord loves is not everybody : Right there in scripture : now some clever , ( not ), person will proceed to in their own reasonings explain why the verse does not mean what it says : 2 Peter 1(20) : but this is what these people do : private interpret scripture away !!!

LoveofTruth said:

Because God loves believers and we are told to even love our enemies love is towards all

Click to expand...

Heb 12(6), Rom 9(13)

Hammster said:

I think I need a little more to work with. I’m not sure of your point.

Click to expand...

John 13(18)

John tower said:

Heb 12(6), Rom 9(13)

Click to expand...

"Love your enemies"

as I said God's love is towards all and offered in Christ . His love is not in or upon all, that is only to believers. But God is still merciful to the unthankful and the evil, he causes the Sun to shine on both for a time

Hammster said:

And...that didn’t help at all.

Click to expand...

I understand your questions.

John 3:16 is the gauntlet of interpreting this matter.

Not only does the usage of Kosmos, bind in Greek to the entire universe in this passage, but it is a male, noun accusative usage.

Jesus said He came for sinners. The accusative Greek usage and male Connotation denotes all that have sinned.

Then the passage draws from the pool of “sinners” and states “that whosoever believes”.

This theologicaly proofs that God died for all, unless a few of the world were free of sin (which I do not believe), other than Christ, Who became part of the accused world, and bore our sins, yet knew no sin.

This being the case, the burden of salvation is placed on all to either grieve the call of God or return the Love to Him.

He Loved first, but not all Love Him back.

His Grace isn’t irresistible, as some hate it!

Some view the Love and Mercy of Christ as weakness. Perhaps irresistible grace was a poor way to word things. Scripture shows that many resist God’s grace through Israel. All were called out, but not all trusted in God.

The rebellion of people that were swallowed up show this.

98cwitr said:

We're all born into sin, and even the elect are sinners before they are reborn:

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Who's "we" here?

Click to expand...

If you think you can be sinless after being saved you are incredibly deceived and I question if you are truly born-again. It's usually the unbelievers who make the claim they are perfect and without sin. Any man who claims they are without sin is a hypocrite, including believers. I've met the most hypocritical so-called Christians who claim they live without sin and then two seconds later yell at their mom or watch inappropriate content in secret. Once you come to the realization at just how sinful humans are in nature while we live in the flesh, you would realize you can sin less and come to full repentance after being saved, but never be 100% perfect and sinless, that is impossible until we get new glorified bodies in heaven. The only man who lived without sin was Jesus. So yeah, even as we believers inevitably sin, as none of us are perfect and we live in the flesh and we all make mistakes, God STILL loves us no matter what. He forgives us for our past, future, and present sin. As for non-believers, how would you know he doesn't have a plan for them and they will eventually come to Christ? It is foolish to say he doesn't love them either. We were all once lost non-believers. He loves his creation, hates the sin and evil it causes, plain and simple.

The only ones God can never love is satan and his demons. Because God can't love evil as he is all good. But with humans it is different as each and every one of us has an opportunity to turn to him, and that's his love showing right there. The fact that he gives a second chance to the most vile of sinners to change their life around. I do not believe God hated me when I was lost and didn't know Christ a few years ago. He knew when my time would come and even back then he would play a role in my life even though I rejected him and was so terrible, that is true unconditional love right there.

98cwitr said:

Do you believe that God loves Satan?

Click to expand...

God in his very nature is love. Everything God does is from who he is he is never unrighteous ot in iniquity in any way.

When God created the angels they were in his love and truth and they rebelled and went away from his love God is still loving and even though they are now going to the lake of fire. God is still love. But his love is not towards them now his wrath his holy loving wrath against evil is upon them as with all those who die in sin. The lost souls are somewhat similar to Satan except that there is no more forgiveness for Satan he had full knowledge we do things in ignorance and God does not offer forgiveness to Satan as far as we know.

So when a lost sinner has God offer love to him in Christ that love is only in them and upon them if they receive him and believe. Then they have the love of God shed abroad in thier heart. Satan does not have this offer. But those who die In sin and are headed to the lake of fire no longer have love offered to them in Christ either but only wrath.

The god of this world Satan has been judged but those who are alive in earth here still have a chance and are able to know Gods love in Christ. We love our enemies but they are still enemies our love is toward them in hope of them repenting and knowing Gods love in thier heart

God does not stop being who he is because he judges to the lake of sinners such as Satan or lost humans. In fact such judgement may be an expression of holy love to evil . But they know it as wrath.

But when God is angry at the wicked this never means he is not still loving.