Who is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18?

Yi-man

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Also as you've shown, different languages have different words for god. You left off the most widely used, which is ALLAH, used by Muslims around the World, and Arabic speaking Christians and Jews, and furthermore Hebrew Speaking Jews also recognise ALLAH is the same God worshipped by Abraham and Israel pbut. Doesn't the Bible say, God's name will be praised around the World?
 
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CherubRam

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Also as you've shown, different languages have different words for god. You left off the most widely used, which is ALLAH, used by Muslims around the World, and Arabic speaking Christians and Jews, and furthermore Hebrew Speaking Jews also recognise ALLAH is the same God worshipped by Abraham and Israel pbut. Doesn't the Bible say, God's name will be praised around the World?
Allah is the name of a Pagan god, most certainly not the God of Abraham. The people of the world have been led astray. Allah AKA Alilah was the morning sun god. Al / il / ah - "The god ascends." You must have skipped over the things I wrote.
 
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Yi-man

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Allah is the name of a Pagan god, most certainly not the God of Abraham.
Then you disagree with the vast majority of Jews who are permitted to enter and offer their prayers in a Mosque, but are forbidden from even looking towards a Church because a tri-une god is NOTHING to do with Abraham pbuh

The people of the world have been led astray.
Especially those who worship created beings.


Allah AKA Alilah was the morning sun god. Al / il / ah - "The god ascends." You must have skipped over the things I wrote.
I didn't skip over, rather I read and asked for evidence.
 
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CherubRam

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Then you disagree with the vast majority of Jews who are permitted to enter and offer their prayers in a Mosque, but are forbidden from even looking towards a Church because a tri-une god is NOTHING to do with Abraham pbuh

Especially those who worship created beings.


I didn't skip over, rather I read and asked for evidence.
The origin of Allah and Allat were as sun and moon deities.
(Zwemmer, (Ed) The Daughters of Allah, By Winnett, F V, MWJ, Vol. XXX, 1940, pg. 120-125).

Allah was part of a trinity which was the phases of the sun. Allah was the rising morning sun, and Chemosh was the afternoon sun, Nirgal was the sun at night.

These are the Quranic verses that allow intercessory prayers to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allāt, Uzza, and Manāt.
Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-‘Uzzá
and Manāt, the third, the other?

(Sura 53, 19-20)
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.


In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was a god with three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat.

Sura 53:19-20 "Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?"

-originally followed by

"These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for."

vs.

"Are yours the males and His the females? That indeed were an unfair division."

At one time Mohammed compromised and said concerning the daughters of Allah in Sura 53:19 that "their intercession was to be hoped for." In other words, Mohammed said we should hope for the help of these three idols. Mohammed's followers were amazed that he said this. Mohammed later changed and said Satan had deceived him. These verses were abrogated or taken out.



 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Yi-man

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The origin of Allah and Allat were as sun and moon deities.
(Zwemmer, (Ed) The Daughters of Allah, By Winnett, F V, MWJ, Vol. XXX, 1940, pg. 120-125).
Again, where's the evidence? On page 112 of the same book, Mr Winnett talks about the many idols worshiped in Arabia, then and, I quote...
"I will not attempt in the present essay, however, to deal with all the deities whose names are known to us but only with the three goddesses, Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, who are found associated in the fifty-third chapter of the Koran (v19f.). In seeking to identify Allat it will be found necessary to make a study of all three. It is evident from the Koran that these three goddesses were held in high esteem by the Arabs of Mekka, and much of Mohammed's polemic against polytheism is to be understood as an attack on their worship. Mohammed ridicules the idea that they were actually Allah's daughters, as popular opinion maintained."

"What!" he exclaims, "shall ye have male progeny and Allah only female? That would be an unfair division!”These goddesses, he says, “are mere names which you and your forefathers have employed.Allah has sent down no authorization of their worship”

Allah was part of a trinity which was the phases of the sun. Allah was the rising morning sun, and Chemosh was the afternoon sun, Nirgal was the sun at night.
Here's what Allah swt says in the Qur'an:

Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe. Qur'an 7:54

These are the Quranic verses that allow intercessory prayers to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allāt, Uzza, and Manāt.
Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-‘Uzzá
and Manāt, the third, the other?

(Sura 53, 19-20)
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.


I'm sure you don't need me to quote the verses you left out refuting your error.

-originally followed by

"These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for."
vs.
"Are yours the males and His the females? That indeed were an unfair division."
Provide evidence showing the verse was changed as you say.

At one time Mohammed compromised and said concerning the daughters of Allah in Sura 53:19 that "their intercession was to be hoped for." In other words, Mohammed said we should hope for the help of these three idols. Mohammed's followers were amazed that he said this. Mohammed later changed and said Satan had deceived him. These verses were abrogated or taken out.
Prove it by quoting the Hadith.
 
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CherubRam

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Again, where's the evidence? On page 112 of the same book, Mr Winnett talks about the many idols worshiped in Arabia, then and, I quote...
"I will not attempt in the present essay, however, to deal with all the deities whose names are known to us but only with the three goddesses, Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, who are found associated in the fifty-third chapter of the Koran (v19f.). In seeking to identify Allat it will be found necessary to make a study of all three. It is evident from the Koran that these three goddesses were held in high esteem by the Arabs of Mekka, and much of Mohammed's polemic against polytheism is to be understood as an attack on their worship. Mohammed ridicules the idea that they were actually Allah's daughters, as popular opinion maintained."

"What!" he exclaims, "shall ye have male progeny and Allah only female? That would be an unfair division!”These goddesses, he says, “are mere names which you and your forefathers have employed.Allah has sent down no authorization of their worship”

Here's what Allah swt says in the Qur'an:

Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe. Qur'an 7:54



I'm sure you don't need me to quote the verses you left out refuting your error.

Provide evidence showing the verse was changed as you say.

Prove it by quoting the Hadith.
My bible says that our God is Yahwah, and your Quran says that your god is Allah. That is good enough for me. There is no relationship between the two words Yahwah and Allah. Since Muslims say our bible is a book of lies, I will leave you with your Allah.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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CherubRam said:
Allah was part of a trinity which was the phases of the sun. Allah was the rising morning sun, and Chemosh was the afternoon sun, Nirgal was the sun at night.
Here's what Allah swt says in the Qur'an:
Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe. Qur'an 7:54
Interesting.
I am sure the Muslims know that both the Hebrew OT and Christian NT of the Bible mentions the sun, moon and stars, correct?.

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Hebrew OT

Isaiah 13:10
For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

Jeremiah 31:35
Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (Yahweh of hosts is His name):

Ezekiel 32:7
When I put out your light,
I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.

Joel 2:10
The land quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.

Joel 3:15
The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.

I believe these verses were written before Islam's Koran? Not sure......

Christian NT

Matthew 24:29

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Luke 21:25
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; [Joel 2and 3 Jeremiah 31:35]

1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars;
for one star differs from another star in glory.

And finally, the final book of the Christian NT...oh the wonder of His Word!

Revelation 12:1
Now a great sign appeared in heaven:
a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

Revelation 8:12
Then the fourth angel sounded:
And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened.
A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
 
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Yi-man

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Since Muslims say our bible is a book of lies, I will leave you with your Allah.
I know of no Muslim that says the Bible is a book of lies, rather the GOD of Abraham pbuh tells us in the Qur'an, the Jews were entrusted to preserve his word as revealed to them via Moses pbuh, and they rebelled, changing words from their proper places and even writing things with their own hands, claiming it was revelation. The Christians were charged with preserving what had been revealed by Jesus pbuh, but they forgot a good portion of it and ended up bickering amongst themselves.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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CherubRam said:
Since Muslims say our bible is a book of lies, I will leave you with your Allah.
I know of no Muslim that says the Bible is a book of lies, rather the GOD of Abraham pbuh tells us in the Qur'an, the Jews were entrusted to preserve his word as revealed to them via Moses pbuh, and they rebelled, changing words from their proper places and even writing things with their own hands, claiming it was revelation. The Christians were charged with preserving what had been revealed by Jesus pbuh, but they forgot a good portion of it and ended up bickering amongst themselves.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think it is more of a matter of contradictions, not as much as lies.
Islam believes the Bible is full of contradictions, both in the Hebrew OT and Christian NT.
I try not to get sucked into debating on that.
I have done it before, and felt like I had been thru a washing machine when all is said and done.........

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-contradictions-refuted.htm
The charge of 101 contradictions, by Muslim apologist, Shabbir Ally refuted!

Muslims talk often about the many contradictions in the Bible. The number of contradictions vary depending on whom you are talking to. Kairanvi's Izhar-ul-Haq presents 119 numbered contradictions, while others such as Shabbir Ally have supposedly found 101 contradictions. The problem as they see it concerns their supposition that any religious book claiming absolute divine authority must not include any contradictions, as a message emanating from an Omniscient being must be consistent with itself.
 
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CherubRam

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I know of no Muslim that says the Bible is a book of lies, rather the GOD of Abraham pbuh tells us in the Qur'an, the Jews were entrusted to preserve his word as revealed to them via Moses pbuh, and they rebelled, changing words from their proper places and even writing things with their own hands, claiming it was revelation. The Christians were charged with preserving what had been revealed by Jesus pbuh, but they forgot a good portion of it and ended up bickering amongst themselves.
I do not disagree with what you have said here. Although I have met Muslims that did believe the bible is full of lies.
 
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FredVB

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FredVB said:
There is sacrifice simply relative to an old life that would be learned as having been a life of sin serving self, in rebellion to God. One can have joy, and love too, with the reconciliation had with God without sin interfering with it. It is real with that, and there may be dancing even for that. But there must be life of sin sacrificed for it, that we are presented to God to use in God's ways. We will learn how we can have joy without that, and have true basis for love, and compassion, from this new life restored with God. No old ways of sacrifice costing lives of any should remain. This is from what Jesus accomplished.

Humanity was to be fruitful and fill the earth. We don't need to have many children for that any more, and we have responsibility for good stewardship in this world instead of how we are actually living in this world. This is something in which there should be life changing repentance. But we need the prophesied Christ for real change that is needed, in such and many more ways.

dlamberth said:
Sacrificing comes from our ego part of attachment. But than Love is a Heart activity with a different perspective.

In Love, I turn everything you wrote on it's head 180 degrees. In Love, there is no sacrifice of anything. There is only unity and Oneness that comes from dancing with the breath of God.

There is sin in our lives, for all of us, which we are to acknowledge. Sin is what we do against the will of God. We are to repent of those things. However happy any become, that itself is not meaning they are coming to God. Through the prophesied Christ, one comes to God with repentance to sin, which involves acknowledging there is sin, and willingly turning from it to come to God, for there is no coming to God with sin that isn't dealt with.

If you still eat anything from animals, you might say you are not sacrificing anything, but your demand in the market contributes to their great misery and suffering, which is as bad for them as being sacrificed, with maybe worse conditions. How perfect is love with doing that?

Robban said:
The difference between Noah and Abraham is Noah did not change anyones life.

And yet he is known as righteous Noah.

Abraham was something else.

Abraham understood the deeper spiritual meaning in,

"Be fruitful and multiply."

I would not judge Noah's life, I know I am not in a position for that. He was a testimony to others, if only obediently working on the ark, and ultimately when it was finished having it available for the many creatures that came. I believe he said things to others that they should repent, and there would be call to join with Noah on the ark. He did have effective testimony to his family, some of us don't even have that with our family.

We still need the repentance with coming to needed change in our lives with acting on our responsibilities.
 
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Robban

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There is sin in our lives, for all of us, which we are to acknowledge. Sin is what we do against the will of God. We are to repent of those things. However happy any become, that itself is not meaning they are coming to God. Through the prophesied Christ, one comes to God with repentance to sin, which involves acknowledging there is sin, and willingly turning from it to come to God, for there is no coming to God with sin that isn't dealt with.

If you still eat anything from animals, you might say you are not sacrificing anything, but your demand in the market contributes to their great misery and suffering, which is as bad for them as being sacrificed, with maybe worse conditions. How perfect is love with doing that?



I would not judge Noah's life, I know I am not in a position for that. He was a testimony to others, if only obediently working on the ark, and ultimately when it was finished having it available for the many creatures that came. I believe he said things to others that they should repent, and there would be call to join with Noah on the ark. He did have effective testimony to his family, some of us don't even have that with our family.

We still need the repentance with coming to needed change in our lives with acting on our responsibilities.

Depends on what you put into the word "Judge".

Point being, one can conduct themselves in a righteous manner without
changing the life/s of others.

In fact it is rather that, after the death of a righteous that some change their ways.

"For we know the righteous are greater in death than in life."
 
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FredVB

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FredVB said:
There is sin in our lives, for all of us, which we are to acknowledge. Sin is what we do against the will of God. We are to repent of those things. However happy any become, that itself is not meaning they are coming to God. Through the prophesied Christ, one comes to God with repentance to sin, which involves acknowledging there is sin, and willingly turning from it to come to God, for there is no coming to God with sin that isn't dealt with.

If you still eat anything from animals, you might say you are not sacrificing anything, but your demand in the market contributes to their great misery and suffering, which is as bad for them as being sacrificed, with maybe worse conditions. How perfect is love with doing that?

I would not judge Noah's life, I know I am not in a position for that. He was a testimony to others, if only obediently working on the ark, and ultimately when it was finished having it available for the many creatures that came. I believe he said things to others that they should repent, and there would be call to join with Noah on the ark. He did have effective testimony to his family, some of us don't even have that with our family.

We still need the repentance with coming to needed change in our lives with acting on our responsibilities.

Robban said:
Depends on what you put into the word "Judge".

Point being, one can conduct themselves in a righteous manner conduct without changing the life/s of others.

In fact it is rather that, after the death of a righteous that some change their ways.

"For we know the righteous are greater in death than in life."

In theory that might be right. One could if starting right remain righteous before Yahweh, without others being involved. Yet it doesn't work that way. I don't know yet that Noah didn't do things changing others in any way. But any of us doing anything wrong ever are no longer righteous before God. And if there are others around, our lives will involve some of them, doing things with righteousness will involve some of them. This is especially the case with having responsibilities among any of them and doing things with them.

But with such faith in God, that we act on, as Abraham and as Noah did, God then counts righteousness where there wasn't that righteousness. It wouldn't be our righteousness even if we act on such faith, it is a righteousness there is already that is associated with us with such faith as they had which we act on. Christian and Messianic believers can see where that righteousness would be from.
 
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Robban

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In theory that might be right. One could if starting right remain righteous before Yahweh, without others being involved. Yet it doesn't work that way. I don't know yet that Noah didn't do things changing others in any way. But any of us doing anything wrong ever are no longer righteous before God. And if there are others around, our lives will involve some of them, doing things with righteousness will involve some of them. This is especially the case with having responsibilities among any of them and doing things with them.

But with such faith in God, that we act on, as Abraham and as Noah did, God then counts righteousness where there wasn't that righteousness. It wouldn't be our righteousness even if we act on such faith, it is a righteousness there is already that is associated with us with such faith as they had which we act on. Christian and Messianic believers can see where that righteousness would be from.

Ezekiel 18.

Study.
 
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Ezekiel 18.

Study.


Would just add referreing to the last line of your post.

What Christians and Messianics see does not concern me one bit,

what concerns me is what I see,
and what I see is, Ezekiel 18 blows the whole concept of Christanity out of the water.

There is wickedness and righteousness I cannot find anywhere anything in between.
 
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FredVB said:
One could if starting right remain righteous before Yahweh, without others being involved. Yet it doesn't work that way. I don't know yet that Noah didn't do things changing others in any way. But any of us doing anything wrong ever are no longer righteous before God. And if there are others around, our lives will involve some of them, doing things with righteousness will involve some of them. This is especially the case with having responsibilities among any of them and doing things with them.

But with such faith in God, that we act on, as Abraham and as Noah did, God then counts righteousness where there wasn't that righteousness. It wouldn't be our righteousness even if we act on such faith, it is a righteousness there is already that is associated with us with such faith as they had which we act on. Christian and Messianic believers can see where that righteousness would be from.

Robban said:
Ezekiel 18.
Study.

Would just add referreing to the last line of your post.

What Christians and Messianics see does not concern me one bit,
what concerns me is what I see,
and what I see is, Ezekiel 18 blows the whole concept of Christanity out of the water.

There is wickedness and righteousness I cannot find anywhere anything in between.

I look at that chapter, and carefully. I don't see anything I disagree with. There is personal responsibility in failure to Yahweh's will for us, and our sins. I don't see Christianity blown out of the water with this, and if I don't find that, Christianity is not blown out of the water. In fact, besides the consequences with personal responsibility in all those verses, there is the verse saying,
But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
This that should have been noticed confirms that there could be repentance. The righteousness discussed is relative righteousness, all have failed Yahweh's will in some way at some times. But this repentance is possible, and has been made available to all, though many become hardened and don't come to that. Those who come to this have this relative righteousness. But none have righteousness of their own adequately right before Yahweh God, and all God's righteousness, they have had faults in their righteousness. So righteousness that is needed, which is not their own, is made available to them.
 
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Robban

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I look at that chapter, and carefully. I don't see anything I disagree with. There is personal responsibility in failure to Yahweh's will for us, and our sins. I don't see Christianity blown out of the water with this, and if I don't find that, Christianity is not blown out of the water. In fact, besides the consequences with personal responsibility in all those verses, there is the verse saying,
But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
This that should have been noticed confirms that there could be repentance. The righteousness discussed is relative righteousness, all have failed Yahweh's will in some way at some times. But this repentance is possible, and has been made available to all,




though many become hardened and don't come to that. Those who come to this have this relative righteousness. But none have righteousness of their own adequately right before Yahweh God, and all God's righteousness, they have had faults in their righteousness. So righteousness that is needed, which is not their own, is made available to them.


What,s all this relative buisness about?

Heard once a definition of "all things are relative."

"Two hairs on my head is too few,
two hairs in my soup are too many."
 
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FredVB

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FredVB said:
I look at that chapter, and carefully. I don't see anything I disagree with. There is personal responsibility in failure to Yahweh's will for us, and our sins. I don't see Christianity blown out of the water with this, and if I don't find that, Christianity is not blown out of the water. In fact, besides the consequences with personal responsibility in all those verses, there is the verse saying,
But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
This that should have been noticed confirms that there could be repentance. The righteousness discussed is relative righteousness, all have failed Yahweh's will in some way at some times. But this repentance is possible, and has been made available to all, though many become hardened and don't come to that. Those who come to this have this relative righteousness. But none have righteousness of their own adequately right before Yahweh God, and all God's righteousness, they have had faults in their righteousness. So righteousness that is needed, which is not their own, is made available to them.

Robban said:
What,s all this relative buisness about?

Heard once a definition of "all things are relative."

"Two hairs on my head is too few,
two hairs in my soup are too many."

The answer to what righteousness being relative is about is in that very passage that I said should be noticed.
But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

The concept of being righteous became a human concept and came already to people early in their existence. But it applies so well to God and God is better understood with that. But with God it is on a whole other level, with absolute perfection that none of us ever yet have. So that passage shows there is repentance possible for those who have done wrong, and they can be righteous (with repentance!), but it won't be absolute righteousness, they have done wrong already. It is relative righteousness. You might know you have done wrong things already, though if so maybe you don't want to admit it.

Isaiah 64:6
For we have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteousness is like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf;
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Psalm 14:1,3
There is no one who does good. They have all gone aside. They have together become corrupt. There is no one who does good, no, not one.

Psalm 143:2
Don’t enter into judgment with your servant,
for in your sight no man living is righteous.

Isaiah 59:16
He saw that there was no man,
and wondered that there was no intercessor.
Therefore his own arm brought salvation to him;
and his righteousness sustained him.
 
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Robban

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The answer to what righteousness being relative is about is in that very passage that I said should be noticed.
But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

The concept of being righteous became a human concept and came already to people early in their existence. But it applies so well to God and God is better understood with that. But with God it is on a whole other level, with absolute perfection that none of us ever yet have. So that passage shows there is repentance possible for those who have done wrong, and they can be righteous (with repentance!), but it won't be absolute righteousness, they have done wrong already. It is relative righteousness. You might know you have done wrong things already, though if so maybe you don't want to admit it.

Isaiah 64:6
For we have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteousness is like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf;
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Psalm 14:1,3
There is no one who does good. They have all gone aside. They have together become corrupt. There is no one who does good, no, not one.

Psalm 143:2
Don’t enter into judgment with your servant,
for in your sight no man living is righteous.

Isaiah 59:16
He saw that there was no man,
and wondered that there was no intercessor.
Therefore his own arm brought salvation to him;
and his righteousness sustained him.

Repentence/teshuva,

Return, return to the source (God),

return your soul back to the pure state it was in on coming into this world.

The power of repentence.

It is a doing.
 
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