Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

Doug Melven said:

Here are those verses.
James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
God said He would not condemn us, Isaiah 54:9-10 Therefore this is not God judging us.
So somebody else is going to judge and condemn us.
When we hold grudges we ruin our testimony before unbelievers.
If we maintain a good testimony others wil come to Christ. Psalms 40:3
James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
You really think God is going to send someone to hell for breaking there word?
Again I want my testimony to be good. If I say I am going to be somewhere at 5:00, I am there before 5:00.
I don't show up at 5:02. I am a man of my word. Because If I am not, my testimony is ruined.
Hebrews 0:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
This is not referring to our spirit or eternal soul.
This is referring to our mind/will/emotions. This is what is transformed by the Word in Romans 12:2
Strong's No.:
G5590
Greek:
ψυχή
Transliteration:
psuchē
Pronunciation:
psoo-khay'
Definition:
From G5594; breath that is (by implication) spirit abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151 which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222 which is mere vitality even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315] [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily) life mind soul + us + you.

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We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I feel that you are making a stretch in your interpretation because of a preconceived notion of OSAS.

@Doug Melven wrote:

You really think God is going to send someone to hell for breaking there word?

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Yes, for in Revelation 21:8 it says that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.

Of course the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansing power, and is able to cover over even the sin of lying (if it happened B.C. in the past). But if you are a liar, someone who lies on a regular basis, and there is no repentance, you will have your part in the lake of fire.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1954:

But please quote any warning where it is clearly stated that salvation can be lost.

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Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that salvation can be lost ultimately due to unrepentant sin.

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FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

You might as well stop using "initial" since you have yet to support your view from Scripture.

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Initial salvation is different than ultimate salvation, the idea of the latter being referred to, for example, in 1 Peter 1:5.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

So, what's the real difference between your notion of initial and ultimate salvation?

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One is now for Christians while the other is future for them (Romans 8:23-25).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

iow, why bother with the first one, if one "ultimately" needs the other one?

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Why does God bother creating people first as babies, instead of creating everyone as an adult like He did with Adam?

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they are actually alive, so initially saved people (that is, Christians) can know that they are actually saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). And just as an infant cannot "give back" his being born, or become unborn, so a born-again person cannot become un-born-again, or "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there is no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there is no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. For just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic, and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they are to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

OK, thanks for admitting that you do not agree with Jesus in John 10:28, in that the ONLY CONDITION for not perishing is to be given eternal life.

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John 10:28 doesn't say that is the only condition. For there are other conditions (e.g. Luke 13:3).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

No, it's not "like a down payment". It's a GUARANTEE.

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The "earnest" in Ephesians 1:14 is not a guarantee. It's from the original Greek word "arrabon" (G0728), which means a down payment.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

This is a pitiful attempt at comparing the indwelling Holy Spirit with a down payment when buying a house.

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That's the same idea as Romans 8:23-25.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

I agree that the believer retains their free will.

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OSAS ends up negating free will.

For example, Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that Christians are robots. For if Christians cannot choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance that he is truly saved. For if a Christian who does not persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance that he is truly saved. For no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road, he could fail to persevere, and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

But under true, Biblical doctrine, every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6), and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin, and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

It's sad how much 1 Cor 9:27 is misunderstood. Paul was referring to being disqualified for eternal reward.

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No, he means being cast away from ultimate salvation, like in Matthew 7:23.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

He describes eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23 and said that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.

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Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

This means that God does not repent from His election of people to initial salvation, that is, their election (their choosing) by God to become Christians at some point during their lifetime (Romans 11:26-28, Acts 13:48b). But Christians still have to diligently do the right things in order to make their calling and election sure, to their ultimate salvation (2 Peter 1:10-11, Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #1969:

There are no conditions for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to not perish.

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There are (e.g. Hebrews 3:14).

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

Do you know why if a human gives a down payment on a house that it is not 100% guaranteed?
It is because the one who gave the down payment is fallible.

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In the case of Ephesians 1:13-14, it is the person receiving the down payment who is fallible. And so, in the analogy of a house seller, he can wilfully ruin the house after receiving the down payment, but before the purchase in full has taken place. At that point, the one who gave the down payment has no obligation to still purchase the house. It's the same with God, if we as initially saved Christians commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

Then He wouldn't be the Finisher of our our faith if we were able to commit apostasy . . .

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He would, because He does not take away free will.

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

And Matthew 23:24 is not a hyperbole, it is an illustration made to give a point.

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Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole because it is an exaggerated statement not meant to be taken literally.

Regarding Matthew 7:23a, its context of Matthew 7:21-23 shows that both faith and obedience to God are required for Christians to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But, because of free will, there is no assurance that Christians will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole, like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole. For Matthew 7:22 could refer to Christians, believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance, they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so that they had to be rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that is one of the signs that people are Christians, believers in the Gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

A child condemned to death is not disowned.

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He doesn't have to be in order to ultimately lose His salvation (Matthew 8:11-12).

Similarly, Matthew 25:26,30 shows that even someone who was a servant of Jesus Christ can ultimately lose his salvation because of unrepentant laziness. One way that a Christian could desire to become lazy without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable, and so fulfilling (in the short term), that he continues in it over time until his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12). Love for God means choosing to do what God says to do (1 John 5:3). So if one's love for God grows cold (Matthew 24:12), one will no longer choose to do what God says to do (John 14:24), meaning that one will become lazy in God's eyes (Matthew 25:26,30).

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Were these people saved that were casting out devil's? That was rhetorical, they were not saved.

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They were saved in the Old Testament sense (Habakkuk 2:4b). For they were Jews who were casting out demons by faith in the power of YHWH God, not Satan.

Also, one has to be saved to cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ, as in Matthew 7:22 and Mark 16:17. For non-Christian Jews trying to do that will fail (Acts 19:13-17).

Doug Melven said in post #1961:

Paul was confident that God would finish what He started in the Philippians.

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Only so long as they continued to cooperate along with God (2 Corinthians 5:9).

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Doug Melven said in post #1967:

Salvation/eternal life is a gift from God. We cannot work for it or earn it.

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We must do so in order to be given ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8).

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Doug Melven said in post #1978:

God said He would not condemn us, Isaiah 54:9-10

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With conditions (e.g. Matthew 24:48-51).

Doug Melven said in post #1978:

You really think God is going to send someone to hell for breaking there word?

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If they do so without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29). For all liars will end up in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).

LittleLambofJesus said:

Are we allowed to quote from Revelation?

What works is Jesus talking about in Reve 2:23>

Jeremiah 17:10
I YHWH, searching heart, examining the affections/kidneys/ 03629 kilyah and giving to man Ways of him, as fruit of his doings. [Reve 2:23]

Reve 2:23
And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death, and shall be knowing all the Assemblies that I am the One searching kidneys/nefrouV <3510> and hearts
and I shall be giving to Ye each according to the works of Ye. [Jeremiah 17:10]

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I agree of course. Thanks for bringing up Revelation 2:23.
I liken that to John 5:28-29. I find that the bible never contradicts itself, and when it seems to there's always an explanation. Persons that take out one verse to make a doctrine out of it (or even more than one verse) are incorrect in doing this --- the verses must match with the rest of scripture.

As far as Jeremiah 17:10...could you explain that in a way that is more understood?

Thanks.

Doug Melven said:

Where does it say in that verse he might be disqualified from salvation or eternal life?
He was talking about obtaining a prize.
Salvation/eternal life is a gift from God. We cannot work for it or earn it. The only thing you can do with a gift is accept it or reject it.
And once you have accepted eternal life it cannot be rejected otherwise you didn't possess eternal life.
And God promised He wll not take it back. Isaiah 54:9-10, Romans 11:29

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Predictable. Anywhere salvation or condemnation is mentioned elsewhere in scripture it must be contorted and perverted in order to squeeze it into your John 10:28 fortress. I’m curious though...to what prize does Paul refer if not salvation? Some other “reward” we are to receive? A “crown” perhaps? It must be difficult keeping track of all the balls you have to juggle to maintain this OSAS ruse.

112358 said:

I am 100% assured because I remain in the faith. FreeGrace2 said earlier that next week I could renounce my faith, curse God, murder, rape, pillage, and pledge allegiance to Satan himself for the rest of my days and yet still I will inherit eternal life because at first I believed and obeyed.

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Just recall that in the CONDITION for never perishing, Jesus gave no OTHER CONDITIONS in John 10:28. By simply receiving the gift of eternal life, Jesus said the recipient shall never perish.

Second, since Jesus Christ went to the cross and PAID for ALL sins, how can ANY sin cause a loss of salvation?

If that were possible, then Jesus didn't do a very good job while on the cross. In fact, when He said "it is finished", He would have been wrong, if your assumptons are right.

Third, if your scenario did result in loss of salvation, Jesus was wrong in John 10:28.

How come you don't see that your views make Jesus WRONG in 2 places?

That is the height of heresy and THAT is what robs the cross of its power and negates the very reason Jesus Christ came in the flesh to begin with.

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Actually, just the opposite, as I have just explained. If any kind of sin resulted in loss of salvation, what Jesus did on the cross is negated.

This garbage is the excuse and lie people use to continue living in all manner of sinful lifestyles and practices. And you people dare judge me for being “too concerned” with the Holy commandments of God Almighty.

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Who has so "judged" you? The heresy is that what Jesus did on the cross "once for all" from Hebrews wasn't ENOUGH to keep anyone saved, which is your view.

So yes, I stand by my premise in defending the truth against all doctrine built on sinking sand.

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That would be your own opinion-theology.

Jesus Christ died for sins once for all. That means every sin. So there cannot be ANY sin that removes salvation. There is no double jeopardy, as your opinion creates.

justbyfaith said:

I find it interesting that @FreeGrace2 continues to cut out of that which he quotes of me, those things that he cannot answer. I think I will lay the old post forth again so that it may be compared to the post that he quotes it out of.

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Go right ahead. I've not ignored anything. But some posts that are quite long and just a compilation of "talking points" from OSNAS are too tedious to keep responding to

How about this: just pick the question/comment that you believe to be the most important one to answer, and I will GLADLY answer it.

justbyfaith said:

Anytime the scripture says plainly that based on some behaviour or flaw, you might lose your salvation, it is not REALLY talking about salvation. NOT!

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What truly is "not" is your claim that Scripture "says plainly that based on some behavior or flaw, you might lose your salvation". Simply false. Scripture has no such verse.

What you keep failing to grasp is that IF Scripture DID have such a verse, then you've made Jesus out to be a liar in at least 2 places:
1. John 10:28, because He gave no conditions to recipients of eternal life to not perish.
2. John 19:30, where Jesus said "it is finished". How could His payment of the debt of sin be fully paid for IF certain sins after receiving eternal life could result in loss of salvation?

Your view cannot answer this dilemma created by your view.

justbyfaith said:

I agree with the latter part of your post, but I have to take issue with the former.

In James 5:9, James 5:12, and Hebrews 10:39 (which have never been answered adequately by the OSAS crowd), you have to distort the plain meanings of the words condemnation and perdition because of a preconceived notion of OSAS

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Not true, this is just "explaining away" the truth of what these verses mean.

But, btw, since you bring up "distorting the plain meansings of words", how come the OSNAS crowd repeatedly does that with John 10:28?

as not meaning what they truly mean as words in the English language (and/or the original Greek).

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Please apply this to John 10:28.

To me, condemnation means the condemnation of hell. And perdition means it would have been better for you if you had never been born.[/QUOTE]

James 5:9 - Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

How can this refer to loss of salvation? Of course all believers will be judged. But neither this verse, nor any other says judged and condemned over behavior. The judgment is to determine whether or not one will earn eternal reward, but you'll just excuse this as "distorting plain language" or some such nonsens.

James 5:12 - Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple “Yes” or “No.” Otherwise you will be condemned.

Really? A recipient of eternal life who swears will go to hell???

Do you really not realize that Jesus Christ died for all sins? Apparently not. Which just adds to all the false doctrine you're collecting.

Here is the Greek wrod for "condemnation":
NT:2920 krisis (kree'-sis); decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law):

Why does OSNAS always default "justice" to "going to hell for sin"???

Are you also not aware of John 3:
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

justbyfaith said:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I feel that you are making a stretch in your interpretation because of a preconceived notion of OSAS.

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There is no "preconceived notion of OSAS" in John 10:28.

Eternal security is stated as plainly as possible:

I give them eternal life and they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

It doesn't get any more plain and clear than this.

So there is no reason to reject eternal security.

justbyfaith said:

Of course the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansing power, and is able to cover over even the sin of lying (if it happened B.C. in the past). But if you are a liar, someone who lies on a regular basis, and there is no repentance, you will have your part in the lake of fire.

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Do you realize that you are in opposition to the book of Hebrews, esp ch 7-10 where the sacrifice of Christ is said to be "once for all", meaning all sin?

Jesus died for lying. He died for every sin. So your theology is a house of cards.

Bible2+ said:

Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that salvation can be lost ultimately due to unrepentant sin.

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This claim has no magic and does not make the claim true.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

First, let me just point out that there is NOTHING HERE that says salvation can be lost.

Second, let's review v.18 - And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

So we see that v.18 and v.26 are saying the same thing. Because of Jesus Christ's sacrifice once for all, there is NO MORE SACRIFICE for sin. He did it once for all.

ie; done deal. Therefore, NO SIN can effect our salvation.

v.27 is about God's divine discipline towards rebellious children. See Heb 12:5-11.
The word "fire" is used throughout Scripture to speak of evaluation in light of eternal value. Such as 1 Cor 3:14,15. Only when clear adjectives are attached to 'fire' does it refer to hell, or the lake of fire. Otherwise, 1 Cor 3:15 would make no sense at all.
v.28 refers to capital punishment (physical death) for rebellion.
v.29 again is about God's divine discipline. See Heb 12:4-11.

Initial salvation is different than ultimate salvation, the idea of the latter being referred to, for example, in 1 Peter 1:5.

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No there is not. Basically, your point is that "initial salvation" is by grace, but "ultimate salvation" is by works. That's not only unbiblical, it's nuts.

Eph 2:8,9 totally refutes your notions.

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation

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There is zero support for this claim from Scripture. Once born again, of imperishable seed, the regenerated one cannot perish. Simple as that.

John 10:28 doesn't say that is the only condition. For there are other conditions (e.g. Luke 13:3).

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First, the first claim is just amazing. Jesus gave THE condition for never perishing. It is to receive the gift of eternal life. If there were more conditions, Jesus was NEGLIGENT in failing to include them. Is that your position? It has to be.

And Luke 13:3 has no connection to John 10:28.

The "earnest" in Ephesians 1:14 is not a guarantee. It's from the original Greek word "arrabon" (G0728), which means a down payment.

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Let's look at what the word REALLY means:
NT:728
arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'); of Hebrew origin [OT:6162]; a pledge, i.e. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest:

I'm guessing that you have no clue what a "pledge" is or means. It's a promise.

Does God EVER lie? I hope you agree that He doesn't. So when God pledges or promises something, you can BET He will carry through with His promise.

So it is with the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. He is placed in every believer as a pledge, promise of our inheritance for the day of redemption.

This is very clear and plain language about eternal security.

OSAS ends up negating free will.

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In NO WAY. But, please go ahead and explain how you think so. I cannot imagine.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

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And Greek scholars (those who know MUCH MORE about the Greek than you ever will) translate the word as "irrevocable". The word means that God will never take back the gift. iow, eternal security.

This means that God does not repent from His election of people to initial salvation, that is, their election (their choosing) by God to become Christians at some point during their lifetime (Romans 11:26-28, Acts 13:48b). But Christians still have to diligently do the right things in order to make their calling and election sure, to their ultimate salvation (2 Peter 1:10-11, Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21).

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No. Election isn't even about salvation, though unfortunately Calvinism has pushed this notion for centuries. Election is all about being chosen for service.

FreeGrace2 said:

Do you realize that you are in opposition to the book of Hebrews, esp ch 7-10 where the sacrifice of Christ is said to be "once for all", meaning all sin?

Jesus died for lying. He died for every sin. So your theology is a house of cards.

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All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). This only goes to show that, because Jesus died for the sin of lying, and redeems even those who have lied, that repentance is a necessary thing for salvation: otherwise we could continue to be liars and would not go to the lake of fire...and the scripture would be broken. But if in applying His blood to our lives He redeems us from being liars, so that we are liars no more in the practical sense, because of repentance...then the scripture does not get broken because these people who were once liars, who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, are liars no more...and therefore they are not liars...it is only true of them that they committed the sin of lying prior to their conversion.

justbyfaith said:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I feel that you are making a stretch in your interpretation because of a preconceived notion of OSAS.

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Might as well because I feel you are interpreting those verses from a preconceived notion of OSNAS.

justbyfaith said:

Yes, for in Revelation 21:8 it says that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.

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You do realize if you lie and then repent, you are still a liar?
But God has said He will not impute sin to His child. Romans 4:2-6, 2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Hebrews 8:8-11

Bible2+ said:

OSAS ends up negating free will.

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No, it doesn't.
Just because a person has freewill does not mean they can do whatever they want.
A world class sprinter would like to be able to run a 2 minute mile, but no matter how much he trains, he will never be able to do so.
A world class high jumper would like to be able to 50 feet in the air, but no matter how much he trains, he will never be able to do so.
I would like to be able to fly like Superman.
I have freewill to that. But I do not have that power.
Has my freewill been negated? No, of course not.
has either of the 2 world class athletes had there freewill negated? No, of course not.
We children of God lack the power to jump out of God's Hand.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1955:

It's sad how much 1 Cor 9:27 is misunderstood. Paul was referring to being disqualified for eternal reward.
No, he means being cast away from ultimate salvation, like in Matthew 7:23.

Bible2+ said:

No, he means being cast away from ultimate salvation, like in Matthew 7:23.

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Looking at the verse in context shows it is not talking about salvation.
9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

He is talking about a crown received for running the the race.
And not all will obtain this crown.
Eternal life is a gift from God. We cannot earn it.
If you think you can earn God's gift, see Galatians 3:1-3

Bible2+ said:

The "earnest" in Ephesians 1:14 is not a guarantee. It's from the original Greek word "arrabon" (G0728), which means a down payment.

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Strong's No.: G728
Greek: ἀῤῥαβών
Transliteration: arrhabōn
Pronunciation: ar-hrab-ohn'
Definition: Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge that is part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
Occurences:
earnest(3)
Search results in alphabetical order: 3 verses found:
Bible Word Reference Verse
earnest 2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
earnest 2 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
earnest Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

If we were to not be saved when we die, God would have had have broken His Word.
Because The Holy Spirit was given as a guarantee/down payment/security on eternal life.

justbyfaith said:

All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).

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Yes, I know the list.

But, please answer this question: did Jesus Christ die "once for all" sins, or just some sins?

This only goes to show that, because Jesus died for the sin of lying, and redeems even those who have lied, that repentance is a necessary thing for salvation: otherwise we could continue to be liars and would not go to the lake of fire...and the scripture would be broken. But if in applying His blood to our lives He redeems us from being liars, so that we are liars no more in the practical sense, because of repentance...then the scripture does not get broken because these people who were once liars, who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, are liars no more...and therefore they are not liars...it is only true of them that they committed the sin of lying prior to their conversion.

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This does not make sense. But since you have agreed that Jesus died for all sins, ONCE a person believes in Him, all their sins are forgiven, which includes those commited AFTER they have believed.

All sins means exactly that: ALL sins. Not "some" sins, or "past" sins.

So your theology falls apart.

justbyfaith said: ↑
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I feel that you are making a stretch in your interpretation because of a preconceived notion of OSAS.
@Doug Melven: Might as well because I feel you are interpreting those verses from a preconceived notion of OSNAS.

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Actually I started with a preconceived notion of OSAS; and certain verses changed my mind.

justbyfaith said: ↑
Yes, for in Revelation 21:8 it says that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.
@Doug Melven: You do realize if you lie and then repent, you are still a liar?
But God has said He will not impute sin to His child. Romans 4:2-6, 2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Hebrews 8:8-11

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I think you have answered your own contention. He will not impute the sin of lying to the one who has lied; because of his repentance: and because his sin is in the past, committed B.C. So in receiving the imputation of righteousness through repentance, God does not any longer consider me to be a liar. I think Romans 4:8 is what you were looking for: "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." but who is that man? Is it not the man who has the law of God written in his heart and mind? It is Hebrews 8:8-12. And in the 2 Corinthians passage, it should be clear that a primary factor in the context is that If any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Which only proves my point further that repentance and a change of heart and life are the reality for someone who lied before and then comes to Christ and is forgiven.

FreeGrace2 said:

Yes, I know the list.

But, please answer this question: did Jesus Christ die "once for all" sins, or just some sins?


This does not make sense. But since you have agreed that Jesus died for all sins, ONCE a person believes in Him, all their sins are forgiven, which includes those commited AFTER they have believed.

All sins means exactly that: ALL sins. Not "some" sins, or "past" sins.

So your theology falls apart.

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No, it doesn't. His blood cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7, Psalms 51:7). He forgives us of the sins that we repent of, the sins that we agree with God are sin (1 John 1:9) and take the same attitude towards them that God has, of hatred. See also Proverbs 28:13.

FreeGrace2 said:

There is no "preconceived notion of OSAS" in John 10:28.

Eternal security is stated as plainly as possible:

I give them eternal life and they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

It doesn't get any more plain and clear than this.

So there is no reason to reject eternal security.

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The promise of eternal security in John 10:28 is only for the saints; whom Jesus knows, those of His sheep: not the sinners, or those who do or work iniquity; whom Jesus never knew and does not know.