SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

justbyfaith · Apr 29, 2018

Romans 3:9 is interpreted by 1 Corinthians 10:32. Romans 3:10-18, and specifically verse 12, is what the law says about those who are under it, v.19. Romans 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law but under grace. Romans 3:23, We all come short of God's glory in that we have sinned, not necessarily in that we do sin. Saints are not sinners, contrary to the secular song, "I'm a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], I'm a lover." That song is worldly, see James 4:4. 1 John 3:9, plus if you compare 1 John 2:17 to 1 John 3:6, TEACHES PRACTICAL DELIVERANCE, FREEDOM, AND VICTORY OVR SIN; OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NO DELIVERED DRUG ADDICTS. It is in the practical sense; not just in one aspect of our being, that we cannot sin if we are born of God. This may be hyperbole; exaggeration to make a point, that there will be a radical change in behaviour for those who are born again. Therefore the Bible teaches that those who are redeemed are NOT SINNERS ANY MORE.

justbyfaith · Apr 29, 2018

We are THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST. 2 Corinthians 5:21. Not sinners.

justbyfaith · Apr 29, 2018

Ezekiel 36:25-26 says, Then will I sprinkle clean water on you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness and from all your idols will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

This is speaking of the new birth, agree or disagree?

Now verse 27 speaks of the result of what I think we would both have to agree is the new birth: And I will put my spirit within you (the new birth), and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them (the result of the new birth).

Therefore GOD CAUSES US TO WALK IN HIS STATUTES AND JUDGMENTS AS THE RESULT OF THE NEW BIRTH. It is as plain as day. The only reason why someone might reject this testimony that I can think of, might be what is spoken of in Hebrews 3:12-15, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, and/or 1 John 4:5-6.

In 2 Corinthians 10:3-5, it speaks of the fact that we have weapons of warfare by which we can demolish arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. So I am going to pray that the Holy Spirit convinces you of the truth, as you are taking an argument that you have derived from scripture (i.e. THERE ARE COMMANDMENTS and therefore the new birth does not produce obedience to them) in an attempt to nullify the truth of a particular scripture, above quoted (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

justbyfaith · Apr 29, 2018

You CAN walk in total victory over sin. If you want it, memorize 1 Corinthians 10:13, which says YOU ARE ABLE to deal with temptation victoriously. Philippians 4:13, which says you CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH YOU. Ephesians 3:16, which teaches that YOU ARE STRENGTHENED WITH MIGHT BY HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN. And Colossians 1:11, which says you ARE STRENGTHENED WITH ALL MIGHT ACCORDING TO HIS GLORIOUS POWER, UNTO ALL PATIENCE AND LONGSUFFERING WITH JOYFULNESS. The third time it shall do double damage; and I consider that the third and fourth verses quoted are practically one. Again I say, you CAN walk in TOTAL victory over sin; based on the verses above.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

Now unto him that is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING, and to PRESENT YOU FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, Jude 1:24

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and THERE IS NONE OCCASION OF STUMBLING IN HIM. 1 John 2:10.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, YE SHALL NEVER FALL: 2 Peter 1:10.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another; and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN. 1 John 1:7.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation (from sin--Matthew 1:21) hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God even our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY and PURIFY UNTO HIMSELF a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:11-14.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY. Matthew 7:23.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

1 John 1:7 and Titus 2:14 mean that we are forgiven of all past sin and that all practical sin in the present and future is dealt with so that our primary behaviour is that we do not commit sin.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

Those who know that the strongest word for "love" in the King James Translation is "charity". So, let's see what the Bible says about a life of love:

Matt 5:43,44, 19:19, 22:37, 39, John 13:34, 35, 14:15, 15:12, 17, Rom 13:8, 1 Cor 13:1-14:1 with special note of 13:13, 16:14, Gal 5:6, 13, 14, Eph 4:15, 5:2, 28, Col 3:19, 1 Thess 4:9 (taught by God to love each other), 1 Tim 1:5 (goal of this command is love).

This is just a sample of the commands to love each other, love your neighbor, love your enemies.

EmSw said:
Hmmm. Sounds like the commandments in which Jesus said to keep to enter eternal life.

Except none of these say that keeping commands for receiving eternal life.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
I'll reiterate therefore and say that the scriptures are able to make EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US wise unto salvaton through continued faith in Jesus Christ; and that this is scriptural truth.

Except there are NO verses that tell us that one is saved 'through continued faith' in Christ.

Yes, believers ARE encouraged to "remain true to the Lord" (Acts 11:23) and "remain true to the faith" (Acts 14:22). But neither verse gives any warning if this isn't done.

Wouldn't a warning be included if ceasing to remain true did result in loss of salvation?

Of course it would. The FACT that there is NO WARNING in these verses proves that salvation cannot be lost.

Even grieving the Spirit doesn't result in loss of salvation, per Eph 4:30. In fact, Paul includes the fact that we are "sealed for the day of redemption", showing that even when believers grieve the Spirit, they are STILL SEALED, and for the day of REDEMPTION.

Them's pretty strong words, don'tcha think?

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

I said:
"Please cite the post where I disagreed with 1 John 2:4. I do recall explaining what that verse means."

justbyfaith said:
It was the post I originally responded to

How many times have I asked for the post #?

but it seems you are willfully blind so that you cannot see this simple fact.

Are you blind to my request?

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Probably the same reason wny you don't believe what it says in 1 John 2:17 and 1 John 3:6 say together in the kjv and a few other translations.

This uncalled for judgment is false and absurd.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
You CAN walk in total victory over sin.

Absolutely. But ONLY WHEN the believer is filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by His means (Gal 5:16), which results in NOT fulfilling the lusts of th flesh.

But...when the believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT walking in any kind of victory.

Do you deny any of this?

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Romans 3:9 is interpreted by 1 Corinthians 10:32.

Then explain HOW it is. I don't believe your claim. Rom 3:9 is a clear statement of mankind. The contexts are DIFFERENT in the verses.

1 John 3:9, plus if you compare 1 John 2:17 to 1 John 3:6, TEACHES PRACTICAL DELIVERANCE, FREEDOM, AND VICTORY OVR SIN; OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NO DELIVERED DRUG ADDICTS.

Yes, there is deliverance from sin. Of course there is.

But ONLY WHEN the believer is filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by His means (Gal 5:16), which results in NOT fulfilling the lusts of th flesh.

But...when the believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT walking in any kind of victory.

This may be hyperbole; exaggeration to make a point, that there will be a radical change in behaviour for those who are born again.

The actual and REAL "radical change" is being born again spiritually, and our human spirit being REGENERATED. But that cannot be seen. It's spiritual, not physical.

To claim that there will a visibly radical change is false, and NOT supported by Scripture.

If it were true, you'd have quoted the verses by now. But all you've got is hyperbole and exaggeration to make your points.

I stand on what the Bible says, and the commands for holy living PROVES that behavior changes ARE NOT GUARANTEED OR AUTOMATIC.

Therefore the Bible teaches that those who are redeemed are NOT SINNERS ANY MORE.

Please cite/quote any verse that says this.

1 John 1:8 and 10 say otherwise.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
We are THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST. 2 Corinthians 5:21. Not sinners.

Yet, we still sin, per 1 John 1:8 and 10.

Ron Gurley · Apr 30, 2018

AFTER the salvation EVENT:

LOVE COMMANDED!!

a. #1 = Love God + #2 = Love Neighbor AS SELF...the BIG TWO IN ORDER!...Luke 10: 25-29: Matthew 22: 37-40; Mark 12:30

b. Love "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) as I have loved you...John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 4

c. Love Enemies..Sermon on the Mount...the HARD ONE...Matthew 5: 43-48

d. ABIDE in God's Love..1 John; John 15

e. If you Love me, FOLLOW/ (serve) me...Matthew 16: 24-27; Luke 14:25-33; John 12:26

f. If you Love me, KEEP PRECEPTS, OBEY, TRUST etc...and ...Get the "good news" out!..Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15

The GOLDEN RULE "to treat others as I want to be treated" (Matt. 7:12)...good MAN-to-MAN ADVICE...not a COMMAND!

Matthew 7:12 (all NASB)
“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you,
for this IS (summarizes?) the Law and the Prophets

#1: LOVE GOD

Matthew 22:37-40
And He (Jesus) said to him (lawyer) ,
A. “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
This is the great and foremost commandment.
B The second is like it,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments DEPEND (derive?) the whole (Mosiac) Law and the (OT) Prophets.”

Jesus the God-Man FULFILLED the MOSAIC "Law" and the Prophets.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

#2: LOVE NEIGHBOR as SELF

Luke 10:25-37...extracts: Parable of the Good Samaritan
And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying,
“Teacher, what shall I (me, MYSELF) DO to INHERIT eternal life?”...
29 But wishing to justify himself, he (lawyer( said to Jesus, “And who is my NEIGHBOR?”
30 Jesus replied and said...("Parable of the The Good Samaritan")
36 Which of these three do you think PROVED to be a NEIGHBOR to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?”
37 And he said, “The one who showed MERCY toward him.”
Then Jesus said to him, (YOU) “Go and do the same.”

Where are the words "love" or "works"?
It is a LESSON on how Man should treat Man...even a stranger. The lawyer wrongly thought he had to DO something to INHERIT God's Grace.

Matthew 19: 16-26...Jesus encounters The Rich Young Ruler's heart (SEE ALSO: Mark 10:17 etc; Luke 18:18 )
16 And someone (The Rich Young Ruler) came to Him (Jesus) and said,
“Teacher, what GOOD THING (works) shall I (myself) DO that I may OBTAIN "eternal (spiritual life"?”
17And He said to him,
“Why are you asking Me about WHAT is good? There is only One WHO is good;
but if YOU wish to enter into (eternal SPIRITUAL) life", keep the (10?) commandments.”
Then he said to Him, “Which ones?”
And Jesus said, (#1 is LOVE GOD...SEE: Deuteronomy 6:5 ; Luke 10:27)
“You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness;
Honor your father and mother; and You shall LOVE your NEIGHBOR as yourself.”
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have KEPT; (the Mosaic Law) what am I still lacking?”
21 Jesus said to him,
“If you wish to be COMPLETE (in works), (YOU) go and sell your possessions and give to the poor,
and YOU will have treasure in heaven;
and COME, FOLLOW Me.”
But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

And Jesus said to His DISCIPLES,
“Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel (rope?) to go through the eye of a needle,
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Choose WHICH to serve: God or wealth...Matthew 6:24)
When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said,
“Then who can be SAVED?” (from death unto "eternal SPIRITUAL life")
And looking at them Jesus said to them,
“With people (man's works) this is impossible,
but with God all things are possible.”
(God draws/calls and offers Grace through the gift of Spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF)

#2b: SELF

Genesis 1:26
Then God (plural=elohim) said,
“Let Us make man in Our (SPIRITUAL) image,
according to Our (CHARACTER) likeness

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female, and
He blessed them and
named them Man (MANKIND) in the day when they were created.

Psalm 139:14...I will give thanks to You,
for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.

Psalm 139:13...For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.

Ephesians 4:16
from whom the whole body,
being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies,
according to the proper working of each individual part,
causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

#3: Love "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) as I have loved you

John 13:34-35.."one another" (Greek = allelon) = mutual,reciprocal,beneficial love among believers
A new commandment I give to you, that
you love "one another", even as I have loved you,
that you also love "one another".
By this all men will know that you are My disciples,(followers,pupils)
if you have love for "one another".”

John 15:12,17 [Disciples’ Relation to Each Other]
“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you....
This I command you, that you love one another.

Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love;
give preference to one another in honor;

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love "one another";
for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:13
For you were called to freedom, brethren;
only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh,
but through love serve "one another".

Ephesians 4:2
with all humility and gentleness, with patience,
showing tolerance for "one another" in love,

#4: LOVE ENEMIES

Matthew 5:43-48...Jesus' Sermon on the Mount to crowds
43 “You have heard that it was said,
‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you,
love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;(believers)
for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 Therefore you are to be (TRY to be!) perfect (mature),
as your (EXAMPLE: your) heavenly Father is perfect.(holy and omnibenevolent)

BNR32FAN · Apr 30, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Then explain HOW it is. I don't believe your claim. Rom 3:9 is a clear statement of mankind. The contexts are DIFFERENT in the verses.

Yes, there is deliverance from sin. Of course there is.

But ONLY WHEN the believer is filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by His means (Gal 5:16), which results in NOT fulfilling the lusts of th flesh.

But...when the believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT walking in any kind of victory.

The actual and REAL "radical change" is being born again spiritually, and our human spirit being REGENERATED. But that cannot be seen. It's spiritual, not physical.

To claim that there will a visibly radical change is false, and NOT supported by Scripture.

If it were true, you'd have quoted the verses by now. But all you've got is hyperbole and exaggeration to make your points.

I stand on what the Bible says, and the commands for holy living PROVES that behavior changes ARE NOT GUARANTEED OR AUTOMATIC.

Please cite/quote any verse that says this.

1 John 1:8 and 10 say otherwise.

Actually James 2 is a clear indication of seeing the Spirit thru the actions of believers. Jesus also said you can identify a person by their actions.

“Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18-25‬

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Except there are NO verses that tell us that one is saved 'through continued faith' in Christ.

Yes, believers ARE encouraged to "remain true to the Lord" (Acts 11:23) and "remain true to the faith" (Acts 14:22). But neither verse gives any warning if this isn't done.

Wouldn't a warning be included if ceasing to remain true did result in loss of salvation?

Of course it would. The FACT that there is NO WARNING in these verses proves that salvation cannot be lost.

Even grieving the Spirit doesn't result in loss of salvation, per Eph 4:30. In fact, Paul includes the fact that we are "sealed for the day of redemption", showing that even when believers grieve the Spirit, they are STILL SEALED, and for the day of REDEMPTION.

Them's pretty strong words, don'tcha think?

And of course, you are preaching to the choir; because I don't believe in loss of salvation. Those who are sealed are given the INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit, which would keep them from ever losing faith. But if they ever did, we know that salvation is by grace through faith. So if you take faith out of the equation, the conduit by which we receive grace and salvation is taken away, and thus grace and salvation, hypothetically, would also be taken away. Hypothetically, because faith cannot be taken away from someone who has a living and saving faith; as their faith is tenacious because of the presence and influence of the Holy Ghost.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Yet, we still sin, per 1 John 1:8 and 10.

1 John 1:8, If we say that we have (this refers to possession, not practice) no (indwelling) sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10, If we say that we have not sinned (this refers only to past committing of sin), we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This cannot be referring to pesent and future practice of sin. 1 John 3:6 says, Whosoever abideth in him SINNETH NOT: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

That this can be perpetual is evident from 1 John 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God ABIDETH FOR EVER.

That doing the will of God is salvational is evident from Matthew 7:21, Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

The will of God is spoken of as being "your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality," in 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8; and as to "in everything give thanks." in 1 Thessalonians 5:18.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Then explain HOW it is. I don't believe your claim. Rom 3:9 is a clear statement of mankind. The contexts are DIFFERENT in the verses.

Yes, there is deliverance from sin. Of course there is.

But ONLY WHEN the believer is filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by His means (Gal 5:16), which results in NOT fulfilling the lusts of th flesh.

But...when the believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT walking in any kind of victory.

The actual and REAL "radical change" is being born again spiritually, and our human spirit being REGENERATED. But that cannot be seen. It's spiritual, not physical.

To claim that there will a visibly radical change is false, and NOT supported by Scripture.

If it were true, you'd have quoted the verses by now. But all you've got is hyperbole and exaggeration to make your points.

I stand on what the Bible says, and the commands for holy living PROVES that behavior changes ARE NOT GUARANTEED OR AUTOMATIC.

Please cite/quote any verse that says this.

1 John 1:8 and 10 say otherwise.

I have already done so. If I keep going, we are in danger of going round and round in circles. But I will requote my case for entire sanctification below.

justbyfaith · Apr 30, 2018

You CAN walk in total victory over sin. If you want it, memorize 1 Corinthians 10:13, which says YOU ARE ABLE to deal with temptation victoriously. Philippians 4:13, which says you CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH YOU. Ephesians 3:16, which teaches that YOU ARE STRENGTHENED WITH MIGHT BY HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN. And Colossians 1:11, which says you ARE STRENGTHENED WITH ALL MIGHT ACCORDING TO HIS GLORIOUS POWER, UNTO ALL PATIENCE AND LONGSUFFERING WITH JOYFULNESS. The third time it shall do double damage; and I consider that the third and fourth verses quoted are practically one. Again I say, you CAN walk in TOTAL victory over sin; based on the verses above.

SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

What U See is What U Get!

He’s a Way of life

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

Similar threads