Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Major1 said:

Agreed. The spirit of a man is who that man is.

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I also agree! Amazing we three agree on something!

Major1 said:

Matthew 18:10 ........
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

John 14:2.....................
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you that where IAM YOU WILL BE ALSO?

Revelation 5:9-13 .............
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

Revelation 21:4......
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 22:1-5 ..........
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

1 Kings 8:30 ..........
And listen to the plea of your servant and of your people Israel, when they pray toward this place. And listen in heaven your dwelling place, and when you hear, forgive

1 Corinthians 2:7-9 ..........
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,”What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

2 Corinthians 5:8.........
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 ...........
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Philippians 3:20-21..............
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

John 3:16 ..........
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 ............
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 14:6 ...........
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 17:3 ...........
And this is eternal life,that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Acts 4:12 .............
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


If you are so very wrong on your comment about heaven, why would you think that you are not just as wrong on your rejection of the Rapture????

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VERY GOOD!

I seen what soul IS the same as before -
more clearly now has no relevance to me as this is what I already knew , as I made it clear in my previous post that the soul/spirit are the same thing as in car/automobile are the same thing.

You need to be very careful about what you perceive as truth as some people write books that have some truth and some untruths and if you accept everything an author says you can be lead to believe an incorrect interpretation- such as the dead know nothing - the dead body has no life and knows nothing but the soul/spirit that has gone to be with the Lord knows what it is like to be in heaven.

Those that go to the 'other' place knows what it is like to be there because the soul/spirit is awake and is conscience and has awareness of their surroundings
There is a false teaching called 'soul sleep' that has NO truth in it -be very careful of what you accept as truth

Dig4truth said:

That's true, we were created in God's image.
Can you see the "soul" more clearly now? It was a mystery to me for a long time but when it was explained it made sense finally.

If you read the first several pages of Immortal it begins with this topic because most everything else is related to it to some degree. The book is a really good resource for understanding this topic and you won't find it taught in most churches.

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iamlamad said:

I also agree! Amazing we three agree on something!

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Finally!

Here is something else we can all agree on.......I am just as cute as my picture!

Is GOD a "living soul?" Or is God a Spirit being?

BABerean2 said:

If you do not care, why would you bring it up?

Some people preach softly, while others use more volume.

As a retired teacher who commonly emphasized some words over others by underlining, or writing larger, or color-coding, I never had a student or parent complain about that practice.

I am glad you do not care...

.

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Wonderful.

But I did not bring it up and in fact I think you should let this go as it means nothing.

YOU brought up the fact that some people who disagreed with YOUR opinion of the Rapture were getting "personal" with you from their comments.

All I did was relate to you that you were doing pretty much the same thing that you were saying others were doing.

End of story. Lets move on shall we.

Postvieww said:

Can anyone point out any scripture that clearly tells us a resurrected saint will be taken to heaven (where God dwells) in that new body? We don’t count all of the ones in which that is assumed to be the case.

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I certainly will but I do not know why I need to.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54..........
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

I am sure that you have an explanation for those verse.

Dig4truth said:

And that is where your misunderstanding stems from.
To believe that the soul and spirit has changed because of the etymology of a word is not suggested.

We don't "posses" a soul, we are a soul. When the spirit or breath of life enters the body we "become" a living soul. See Gen 2.

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Do I believe that our mind, will and emotions are a part of our soul, yep.

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Assuming you are correct, thus the following question?


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


How do you explain a passage like this then? Did not Jesus say this---both soul and body. If someone said---both the right hand and the left hand, no one would take that to mean both hands are only meaning one hand and are the same hand. So if Jesus said both both soul and body, and unless I'm missing something here, apparently both can't be meaning the same thing, anymore than both per my example can be meaning the same thing.

iamlamad said:

Sorry, but your theory does not fit what Paul wrote.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Each part of our self is separate: the soul is separate from our Spirit and from our body. It must be so, because when God puts to death our old man (the old adamic human spirit) and recreated a NEW human psiriti with HIS DNA, (no longer and Adamic spirit) our sou (mind, will, emotions, memories, intellect) is not changed.

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When the the spirit (breath of life) joins with the body we become a living soul. Do you have any information to contradict this?

Isn't Paul just saying that he desires for us to be found in a perfect relationship with the Messiah at His coming?

Major1 said:

I certainly will but I do not know why I need to.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54..........
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

I am sure that you have an explanation for those verse.

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Can you point to where this passage says anything about heaven?

DavidPT said:

Assuming you are correct, thus the following question?


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


How do you explain a passage like this then? Did not Jesus say this---both soul and body. If someone said---both the right hand and the left hand, no one would take that to mean both hands are only meaning one hand and are the same hand. So if Jesus said both both soul and body, and unless I'm missing something here, apparently both can't be meaning the same thing, anymore than both per my example can be meaning the same thing.

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That is actually a great question. Thanks for asking it.
What happens to those who are appointed to the second death? Well, death of course. Even the soul.

You see if the wages of sin is death, and that is clearly what the scriptures teach, when an unrepentant soul dies - it ceases to exist. We do not have a problem with the definition of death do we?

Dig4truth said:

when an unrepentant soul dies - it ceases to exist. We do not have a problem with the definition of death do we?

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Rev 20
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

The second death is eternal torment in the lake of fire due to the fact that the spirit is eternal that never ceases to exist

You either spend eternity with the LORD GOD

or you spend eternity in the lake of fire in torment

seventysevens said:

I seen what soul IS the same as before -
more clearly now has no relevance to me as this is what I already knew , as I made it clear in my previous post that the soul/spirit are the same thing as in car/automobile are the same thing.

You need to be very careful about what you perceive as truth as some people write books that have some truth and some untruths and if you accept everything an author says you can be lead to believe an incorrect interpretation- such as the dead know nothing - the dead body has no life and knows nothing but the soul/spirit that has gone to be with the Lord knows what it is like to be in heaven.

Those that go to the 'other' place knows what it is like to be there because the soul/spirit is awake and is conscience and has awareness of their surroundings
There is a false teaching called 'soul sleep' that has NO truth in it -be very careful of what you accept as truth

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Please explain the difference between the soul and spirit. Because if they can be divided they are not the same thing.

I'm guessing here but you didn't take the time to read a few pages from a book because it may challenge your beliefs.

Why is the belief that "the dead know nothing" an incorrect interpretation? The last time I checked it was Scripture. But your prior beliefs have made it irrelevant.

The devil in the Garden of Eden said "you surely shall not die" (sound familiar?). However the Word of God says that the soul that sins "shall die". "All have sinned".

seventysevens said:

Rev 20
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

The second death is eternal torment in the lake of fire due to the fact that the spirit is eternal that never ceases to exist

You either spend eternity with the LORD GOD

or you spend eternity in the lake of fire in torment

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Again, you are basing your conclusion on an incorrect understanding of what the soul is.

How is the second "death" an eternal state? Do we have an issue with the term "death" now?

Dig4truth said:

Again, you are basing your conclusion on an incorrect understanding of what the soul is.

How is the second "death" an eternal state? Do we have an issue with the term "death" now?

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The spirit/soul go to be in the presence of LORD GOD if you are a Christian that dies and the physical body goes to the dust from where it came and at the resurrection a new glorified body is resurrected

The spirit/soul go to be in the presence of the lake of fire which is called the second death which means that the person is tormented eternally , the spirit/soul is eternal just like angels are eternal and the lake of fire was created for satan and the angels that follow him and after the great white throne judgment takes place the people in that judgment are not found in the book of life so they are sent to the lake of fire to be with satan and his followers

Dig4truth said:

Please explain the difference between the soul and spirit. Because if they can be divided they are not the same thing. .

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I have already answered that , did you not read or did you not comprehend?
What is the difference between a car and an automobile?

seventysevens said:

I have already answered that , did you not read or did you not comprehend?
What is the difference between a car and an automobile?

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A car and an automobile are just two words that mean the same thing. How does that prove anything about the spirit and the soul? It is a non sequitur.

You did not answer my question as to how something that is the same can be divided.

seventysevens said:

I have already answered that , did you not read or did you not comprehend?
What is the difference between a car and an automobile?

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Let's go at this civilly, without insults. It is a very hard topic perhaps one of the most difficult to understand. If we bounce off our understandings from each other we both may come to a better understanding. As I have said this is a new concept for me. All of my life I had no clue as to what all of this "body, soul, spirit" meant. But now I do have an understanding. It makes sense for the first time in my long Christian life. However, it does go against the mainstream belief which I have found to be very false in the first place. We have been invaded by wolves.

In a spirit of unity we should evaluate the scriptures and see for ourselves if what we have been taught is the truth. If it is not then we must accept the truth and leave the traditions of men behind.

Dig4truth said:

That is actually a great question. Thanks for asking it.
What happens to those who are appointed to the second death? Well, death of course. Even the soul.

You see if the wages of sin is death, and that is clearly what the scriptures teach, when an unrepentant soul dies - it ceases to exist. We do not have a problem with the definition of death do we?

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I only used that example in Matthew 10 for one reason. It seems that your position is that no one has a soul. If that is the case, why did Jesus say both soul and body, as if these are not the same thing? As to what you concluded about an unrepentant soul, it looks like we are in agreement there as to what eventually becomes of it. Yet this still fails to address the fact that Jesus said both soul and body, as if these are not referring to the same thing, like I already pointed out.

Dig4truth said:

A car and an automobile are just two words that mean the same thing. .

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The spirit/soul is separated from the physical flesh and blood body - nothing more than that
It sounds like you are saying something other than that , the soul/spirit are not separate from each other as a car is not separate from an automobile
If you require a deeper understanding - study them in the Hebrew and Greek