Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

seventysevens

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They are fallen angels. Lucifer was of the highest order of angels, then he rebelled against God and became Satan. He took 1/3 of the angels with him, who are now demons. That may be at least 200 million Demons or more.
demons are not angels - fallen or not they are not angels
as stated angels have a body of their own
demons do not have a body of their own which they need a host body such as the man who was possessed and Jesus cast them out and into the swine
 
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Ronald

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Read Job 38:1-7 which is about the moment when God created the Earth, in verse 7 it is said that ALL THE SONS OF GOD SHOUTED OF JOY -----Have you ever wondered who were these SONS OF GOD mentioned in Job 38:1-7 ?


Why do you conclude that Angels have to be giants rather than conclude that their relation with humans woman caused genetic disorders in the embryo which produced the RACE of Giants 9 to 15 feet tall ...some having twelve fingers and twelve toes like Goliath who was described in the Bible ... ?The tallest human ever reported have 8 feet as pointed out by MAJOR1...Andre the Giant was 7.4 feet tall ...Do you really believe that he weighted 20 lbs at birth ?
I do consider that the sons of God means angels, but I also gave an explanation for that. That they would possess a human in order to experience and have relations with them.
The other thing is you are suggesting 15 ' tall giants who would be 3x the size of Andre in weight and 10 X the weight of an average male at that time. Obviously, a giant baby might be 30 lbs or more AND a small woman would not be able to carry or deliver it without dying in the process.
So I would submit that 7-8 ft. tall men were the giants, and some like Goliath, who may have been the biggest were up to 10 ft. = 6 1/2 cubits. A cubit was about 18 inches, the average length from elbow to finger tip.
 
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Ronald

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The Nephilims were described in the Bible as having 9 to 15 feet tall ....Andre the giant would had looked like a dwarf compare to a 15 feet tall Nephelims .The Bible describe something out of the ordinary which implied angels mating with human women...like it or not.
Where did you get 15 feet tall from?
 
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Ronald

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demons are not angels - fallen or not they are not angels
as stated angels have a body of their own
demons do not have a body of their own which they need a host body such as the man who was possessed and Jesus cast them out and into the swine
Glad we can agree with that, which begs the question: Since only angels can appear as men ( even if they could procreate), wouldn't they be in rebellion, disobedient to God by leaving their first habitation and going down to rape women? This would be a rebellion, against Gods order of things amd therefore subject to punishment/ judgment.
Angels are holy, they work for God and serve Him and protect us. 1/3 of their numbers turned evil and became demons.
God would not allow this, He is in control.
 
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seventysevens

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Glad we can agree with that, which begs the question: Since only angels can appear as men ( even if they could procreate), wouldn't they be in rebellion, disobedient to God by leaving their first habitation and going down to rape women? This would be a rebellion, against Gods order of things amd therefore subject to punishment/ judgment.
Angels are holy, they work for God and serve Him and protect us. 1/3 of their numbers turned evil and became demons.
God would not allow this, He is in control.
Angels cannot just become demons because they choose to anymore than
you can inhabit another persons body just because you choose to.
Yes they are subject to punishment /judgment as they cannot be redeemed
Angels do have freewill to disobey just as man can choose to disobey
God did allow it when they left their first abode , but due to what they did they are not allowed back into their first abode
We don't know if they raped women or if women chose to be with them or maybe both , but scripture strongly implies they mated and resulted in a 'race' of abnormally big men that by comparison from the Israelite spies that they were like grasshoppers compared to the giants - which is a big difference in size
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Obviously, a giant baby might be 30 lbs or more AND a small woman would not be able to carry or deliver it without dying in the process.
Brother this is not true. Actually a baby giant to be born small and grow big. No, they would not have to weigh 30 pounds.
 
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Riberra

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The other thing is you are suggesting 15 ' tall giants who would be 3x the size of Andre the giant
Andre the giant was 7,4 feet tall --->a 15 feet Nephilim would be 2x the size of Andre the giant ....not 3x.

Obviously, a giant baby might be 30 lbs or more AND a small woman would not be able to carry or deliver it without dying in the process.
Based on your guesstimate Andre the giant weighted 15 lbs at birth ?We know that Andre weighted the normal weight of a baby but grew large and tall due to a genetic disorder ...

As for the size of the Nephilims the bible describe them as having between 9 to 15 feet tall .an example is the King of Bashan ...
Link:
Who was Og king of Bashan?

his bed was made of iron and was of enormous size: nine cubits long and four cubits wide (13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide). The inclusion of this detail emphasizes the size of Og. A man needing this size of bed was likely very tall—ten or eleven feet. This interpretation is supported by the fact that Og was one of the last of the Rephaites (Deuteronomy 3:11), which means he was strong and tall (see Deuteronomy 2:20-21).
 
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DavidPT

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Here's a question that comes to mind. Obviously when women give birth, they give birth to both male and female. Assuming sons of Gods are angels, and that they procreated with earth women, and when these women gave birth, were they all male offspring, or were some of them also female offspring? It would be rather strange that only males could be birthed from such a union, and not females as well. Are there any records in the Bible as to some of these offspring being female? And if no, no one finds that rather odd, assuming these unions took place at the time?

And something else that comes to mind. These alleged part fallen angel and part human offspring, what part do they play in this once they have grown up? The text indicates it is the sons of God who found the daughters of men to be fair, and it was they who took wives that they chose, and that it wasn't their offspring that was doing this as well.
 
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seventysevens

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You mean you haven't actually read the stories in the bible about them ? There really isn't all that much about them , but they are described as a few different tribes in the OT , naturally there would be females born as well because in order to have tribes they have to reproduce among themselves.
But the scripture is not there to tell us all about their lives as they are beings that God detested and he was so angry about this that he considered wiping out all human and animal life completely -
but as in the story of Lot God decided to see if Any righteous uncorrupted humans still existed and found Noah and his family and decided to have them escape the destruction that God had planned to happen in the flood to wipe them off the earth .

This was satans attempt to corrupt the seed of mankind to try to prevent the Messiah to ever be born as he knew that God would not have a messiah that would have had a corrupted gene pool . Since this attempt failed -satan at a later time tried to prevent the coming of the messiah by trying to kill him as a baby when he influenced King Herod to kill all babies 2 years of age and under .
It is also why he sent the magi to find the newborn baby Jesus so that Herod could have Jesus killed before he grew up and become the lamb on the cross .
 
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Ronald

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Angels cannot just become demons because they choose to anymore than
you can inhabit another persons body just because you choose to.
Yes they are subject to punishment /judgment as they cannot be redeemed
Angels do have freewill to disobey just as man can choose to disobey
God did allow it when they left their first abode , but due to what they did they are not allowed back into their first abode
We don't know if they raped women or if women chose to be with them or maybe both , but scripture strongly implies they mated and resulted in a 'race' of abnormally big men that by comparison from the Israelite spies that they were like grasshoppers compared to the giants - which is a big difference in size
Go with that then, OK by me.
 
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Ronald

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Andre the giant was 7,4 feet tall --->a 15 feet Nephilim would be 2x the size of Andre the giant ....not 3x.


Based on your guesstimate Andre the giant weighted 15 lbs at birth ?We know that Andre weighted the normal weight of a baby but grew large and tall due to a genetic disorder ...

As for the size of the Nephilims the bible describe them as having between 9 to 15 feet tall .an example is the King of Bashan ...
Link:
Who was Og king of Bashan?

his bed was made of iron and was of enormous size: nine cubits long and four cubits wide (13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide). The inclusion of this detail emphasizes the size of Og. A man needing this size of bed was likely very tall—ten or eleven feet. This interpretation is supported by the fact that Og was one of the last of the Rephaites (Deuteronomy 3:11), which means he was strong and tall (see Deuteronomy 2:20-21).
2x the height doesn't fact is in the girth, the width which was double and so triple or more the weight would be reasonable.
I am 6 ft at 200 lbs. Andre was only 16 inches taller but weighed 550.. I weigh much more than double a person that is 3 feet tall.
The king of Bashan having a large bed could suggest he slept with lots of wives and needed the room.
 
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Ronald

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Here's a question that comes to mind. Obviously when women give birth, they give birth to both male and female. Assuming sons of Gods are angels, and that they procreated with earth women, and when these women gave birth, were they all male offspring, or were some of them also female offspring? It would be rather strange that only males could be birthed from such a union, and not females as well. Are there any records in the Bible as to some of these offspring being female? And if no, no one finds that rather odd, assuming these unions took place at the time?

And something else that comes to mind. These alleged part fallen angel and part human offspring, what part do they play in this once they have grown up? The text indicates it is the sons of God who found the daughters of men to be fair, and it was they who took wives that they chose, and that it wasn't their offspring that was doing this as well.
Good points. Did the King of Bashan have a sister? She must have been giant too. Maybe she swooned down on the sons of men? Maybe she lived down the street, you know at Big Mama's House.
 
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Riberra

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2x the height but wouldn't consider the width to be huge and so triple or more the weight.
I am 6 ft at 200 lbs. Andre was only 16 inches taller but weighed 550..
You said that a 15 feet tall Nephilim must have weighted at least 30 lbs or more at birth ----->if you apply your calculation to Andre the Giant, how much should he have weighted at birth ?
Provide your calculations .

The king of Bashan having a large bed could suggest he slept with lots of wives and needed the room.
King Solomon had a full harem made of at least 1,000 beautiful wives and concubines---> there was no indication about the size of his bed.

1 Kings 11 KJV

Solomon's Foreign Wives

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; 2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. 3And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
 
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seventysevens

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The king of Bashan having a large bed could suggest he slept with lots of wives and needed the room.
upload_2018-3-25_5-43-59.gif

Perhaps you should actually study the bible :oldthumbsup:
 
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Ronald

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You said that a 15 feet tall Nephilim must have weighted at least 30 lbs or more at birth ----->if you apply your calculation to Andre the Giant, how much should he have weighted at birth ?
Provide your calculations .


King Solomon had a full harem made of at least 1,000 beautiful wives and concubines---> there was no indication about the size of his bed.

1 Kings 11 KJV

Solomon's Foreign Wives

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; 2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. 3And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
The giantess Anna Bates had a 22 pound baby! She was 7'5" tall.
Andre the giant had a pituitary disorder which caused his abnormal growth. That is not the same as these so called giants who were claimed to have been fathered by angels.
The other point is, if this really happened the way "your interpretation" suggests, then these Nephilim would not be cursed under the Adamic sin, it could not be passed down to them. And the scriptures stating that through Adam's sin, all have sinned could not be true. That's problematic.
The fact is holy angels serve God. Those who rebelled and left there first habitation became demons and demons cannot materialize in human form, nor can they procreate. They can only possess people which again is not easy and requires a willing or weak host.
I am well aware of Solomon's life, his many wives. What makes you think he didn't have a large bed to allow for many women at a time?

As I said, you go with your interpretation and the rest of us will be content with a different one.
 
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seventysevens

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Please show scripture evidence that angels can turn them self into a demon , if they could they could turn them self back into angel
Holy angels are in heaven they did not come to earth
show scripture that a demon can slay anybody
show scripture that says an angel fallen or not ;was cast out of a person , you still need to understand the difference between them
Angelic beings cannot fall under any sin that mankind has committed
It would be a really big bed to have a few hundred women all at the same time ^_^
The giantess Anna Bates had a 22 pound baby! She was 7'5" tall.
Andre the giant had a pituitary disorder which caused his abnormal growth. That is not the same as these so called giants who were claimed to have been fathered by angels.
The other point is, if this really happened the way "your interpretation" suggests, then these Nephilim would not be cursed under the Adamic sin, it could not be passed down to them. And the scriptures stating that through Adam's sin, all have sinned could not be true. That's problematic.
The fact is holy angels serve God. Those who rebelled and left there first habitation became demons and demons cannot materialize in human form, nor can they procreate. They an only possess people which again is not easy and requires a willing or weak host.
I am well aware of Solomans life, his many wives. What makes you think he didn't have a large bed to allow for many women at a time?
As I said, you go with your interpretation and the rest of us will be content with a different one.
 
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Ronald

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Please show scripture evidence that angels can turn them self into a demon , if they could they could turn them self back into angel
Holy angels are in heaven they did not come to earth
show scripture that a demon can slay anybody
show scripture that says an angel fallen or not ;was cast out of a person , you still need to understand the difference between them
Angelic beings cannot fall under any sin that mankind has committed
It would be a really big bed to have a few hundred women all at the same time ^_^
Your lack of basic theology is evident. I learned that fallen angels, like Lucifer became devils/demons. The Bible uses devils all over the place. What do you think evil spirits are?
Is. 14:12-15 describes Lucifer's fall.
Luke 10:17 The disciples are given power to cast out demons. In the following verse, Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. This equates the two. Satan is the Devil and the Bible refers not just to him, but many devils.
2 Cor. 11:14 Satan disguises himself as an angel of light to deceive. Which means is no longer an angel of light.
Rev. 12:4 tells us that when Lucifer(Satan) fell from heaven, he took 1/3 of the angels of heaven with him and threw them to earth. They did not remain angels, for angels were tested. Those who remained in heaven, were holy.
James 2:19 Demons believe in God and tremble.
Luke 11:18 "If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul." This equates Satan with his demons. He cannot be divided against himself.
------------------
devils, symbolized as shaggy goats (Satyrs) and the word demons is just another name for devil.

From Strong's Concordance:

[sa'iyr: devil
Original Word: שָׂעִיר
Part of Speech: Adjective; noun masculine; noun masculine
Transliteration: sa'iyr
Phonetic Spelling: (saw-eer')
Short Definition: devil
Brown-Driver-Briggs
I. שָׂעִר adjective hairy; — masculine singular ׳אִישׁ שׂGenesis 27:11; feminine plural יָדָיו שְׂעִרֹת Genesis 27:33(J).
II. שָׂעִיר53 noun masculineNumbers 15:24 he-goat, buck (hairy one; Late Hebrew id.); — absolute ׳שׂ Leviticus 4:24 +, construct שְׂעִיר Numbers 7:16 +; plural שְׂעִירִםLeviticus 16:7,8; construct שְׂעִירֵי Leviticus 16:5; Numbers 7:87; — he-goat, usually שְׂעִיר(ֿ)עִזִּים buck of goats (seeעֵז p. 777): Genesis 37:31 (J), Ezekiel 43:22; Ezekiel 45:23; Leviticus 4:23; Leviticus 9:3; Leviticus 23:19 20t. Numbers (all P); ׳שְׂעִירֵי ע Leviticus 16:5; Numbers 7:87 (P); ׳שׂ alone = he-goat Leviticus 4:24 11t. Leviticus 16 (P); שְׂעִיר (הַ)חַטָּאת he-goat for sin-offering Ezekiel 43:25; Leviticus 9:15 9t. Leviticus, Numbers; ׳שְׂעִירֵי הַח2Chronicles 29:23; in Daniel 8:21 ׳הַשּׂ is probably gloss to הַצָּפִיר (compare Dr).

III. שָׂעִיר noun masculine satyr, demon (with he-goat's form, or feet; Late Hebrew id.; compare BaudStud. i. 136 ff.; hairy demons WeSkizzen iii. 135; Heid. 152 RSSemitic 113, 423: 2nd ed. 120, 441); absolute ׳שׂ Isaiah 34:14 inhabiting desolate ruins, so plural שְׂעִירִים Isaiah 13:21; name for idols 2Chronicles 11:15 and (שְׂעִירִם) Leviticus 17:7 (H); probably also ׳בָּמוֺת הַשּׂ 2 Kings 23:8 (ᵑ0 הַשְּׁעָרִים) HoffmZAW ii (1882), 175 SS Kmp Klo Kit Benz Bur. ]
 
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seventysevens

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I learned that fallen angels,
What you have done is just scratch the surface of the matter , like in math there is a level for 5th graders and another level for each grade on up even into advanced collegiate levels , simple math is always there but math gets deeper as it gets more advanced and so does study of scripture .
You are a spirit being with a physical body and so are angels , so when angels came to earth where did they go ?, what did they do ? How does an angel possess a human so that it takes Jesus to cast it out , how can 2000 angels posses a man as the man Jesus confronted have? Simple answer they can't do it because they have a body of their own , but a demon/unclean spirit does not have a body and seeks to find one to posses

We all can find the definition of a word , but you have to look into it deeply to understand the applications .. I know you struggle with this so I won't overwhelm you with too much at a time , but consider this - God created mankind in His own image to become His family members to spend eternity with Him. In the time of the flood -I will put a conservative number of approx 1 billion people on earth at the time of the flood of Noah - Now something to think about -

God loves his creation of mankind and bestowed special characteristics on man that no other living being has been given -including the angels - but yet God was so angry at mankind that he decided to wipe them of the face of the planet . Now God who created the planet and all that is on it by speaking a word and it came to pass , being so angry at what had happened on earth that he would decide to kill everyone that He created in His own image , own likeness.
He told Noah to build an ark for his own family and the animals - God plans to kill every person and every animal and wipe them out entirely , now compare what is happening in our world today where we not only have people killing for robberies but people driving big trucks into large crowds of people to kill as many people as they can , shooting in Las Vegas , shootings in schools and churches and random bombings , flying jumbo jet airliners into big tall buildings all for the purpose to kill as many people as they can with no motive of stealing money or other valuables but just for the sake of killing as many people as they can for killings sake ,

In Noah's time it says people were corrupt but they did not have the ability to destroy the planet such as we do - what was it that they did that was so bad that God did not want to send Jesus as a sacrificial lamb and allow them forgiveness

Gen 4
And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
11And the earth was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
יב וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָרֶץ, וְהִנֵּה נִשְׁחָתָה: כִּי-הִשְׁחִית כָּל-בָּשָׂר אֶת-דַּרְכּוֹ, עַל-הָאָרֶץ. {ס}12 And God saw the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. {S}
יג וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים לְנֹחַ, קֵץ כָּל-בָּשָׂר בָּא לְפָנַי--כִּי-מָלְאָה הָאָרֶץ חָמָס, מִפְּנֵיהֶם; וְהִנְנִי מַשְׁחִיתָם, אֶת-הָאָרֶץ. 13 And God said unto Noah: 'The end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Not just mankind but all flesh -animals don't corrupt themselves
Consider that Only Noah was considered worthy to escape the total destruction of the flood sent to wipe out all of mankind
The ark that Noah built was only big enough to house his family and 2x2 male and female animals
Flesh has corrupted their way upon the earth
think about that for a bit and ask yourself what was it that this corrupted flesh has done that the God of love that created mankind in his own image that they did not receive the consideration of forgiveness of their sins -

and only one man and his family was considered worthy to survive - When you corrupt the seed you corrupt the gene pool - that would be like someone pouring used motor oil in your milk and if they ask for forgiveness, do you keep that milk or throw it out and get new fresh milk that is not corrupted with a mix of used motor oil?
 

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