How much of your identity is tied to your work?

tall73 · Mar 24, 2018

This is another of the more broad topics to discuss. The last couple received a lot of feedback. Just remember to keep it civil!

Some aspects to discuss:

- Is work just part of what you do, or is it a big part of how you think of yourself?

- How does your work-life balance impact your family?

- Are work roles a source of friction in your marriage? (for instance, in some families the husband may resent if the wife makes more money, while in other families, there is no such sentiment.)

- For those who have through circumstances beyond their control lost the ability for a time to work, how did that impact your self-image or identity?

- For those who are retired, how did this impact your self-image or identity?

-For those who are stay-at-home parents, how does this impact your self-image or identity?

- Does it tie in to class identification? (blue collar workers, upper class, etc.)

RDKirk · Mar 24, 2018

When I was active duty military, quite a bit.

Since then, not at all.

tall73 · Mar 24, 2018

RDKirk said:
When I was active duty military, quite a bit.

Since then, not at all.

Was that because of the very pervasive sway they have over your entire life, or because of a shift in your perspective and outlook?

johndoo · Mar 24, 2018

My work is my identity 98% or so.
I probably have a work addiction.
My wife has resigned herself to me being a work-a-holic.
I make most of the money and so I have been known to bring that up as the trump card in a few discussions. Bad, I know.
I haven't been as good of a father as I would have liked.

RedPonyDriver · Mar 24, 2018

This is another of the more broad topics to discuss. The last couple received a lot of feedback. Just remember to keep it civil!

Some aspects to discuss:

- Is work just part of what you do, or is it a big part of how you think of yourself?[/QUOTE]

It's pretty much most of my identity.

tall73 said:
- How does your work-life balance impact your family?
No kids here...Its depended on the job as to how well I balanced my life. Starting a business is a 24/7 thing. Selling a business is not easy either.

tall73 said:

- Are work roles a source of friction in your marriage? (for instance, in some families the husband may resent if the wife makes more money, while in other families, there is no such sentiment.)

Click to expand...

Never been an issue with us.

tall73 said:

- For those who have through circumstances beyond their control lost the ability for a time to work, how did that impact your self-image or identity?

Click to expand...

Never really ran into that.

tall73 said:

- For those who are retired, how did this impact your self-image or identity?

Click to expand...

Tried retiring...climbed the walls. went back to work, but chose something less stressful. I taught for awhile, now working part time at a small company.

tall73 said:

-For those who are stay-at-home parents, how does this impact your self-image or identity?

Click to expand...

N/A

tall73 said:

- Does it tie in to class identification? (blue collar workers, upper class, etc.)

Click to expand...

I live in two different worlds...the professional, alphabet soup world and the world of being first generation born here minority. I was the first child born here after my family immigrated. All us kids are professionals of one sort or another yet we'll always be the kids who spoke Spanish at home and lived quite differently from our American counterparts.

Paidiske · Mar 24, 2018

tall73 said:
- Is work just part of what you do, or is it a big part of how you think of yourself?

Big part of my identity, at least in ministry. When I was in an office job, less so.

tall73 said:
- How does your work-life balance impact your family?

Churches tend to operate on the assumption that the minister will work all the hours God gives, and that if they have a family, they will have a spouse who will dutifully manage all of that so you can focus on ministry. I have to work really hard to try not to let work take over (so that I can actually have a day off etc) and I often fail.

It does help that we live on site, so at least my family doesn't lose to a commute etc. I can sit at my desk and still be here when my daughter gets home from school; and that sort of stuff helps.

tall73 said:
- Are work roles a source of friction in your marriage? (for instance, in some families the husband may resent if the wife makes more money, while in other families, there is no such sentiment.)

Not really. The only time either of us has been really unhappy with the work split is when we've been not working at all. Neither of us is happy without some sort of work, even very part time.

tall73 said:
- For those who have through circumstances beyond their control lost the ability for a time to work, how did that impact your self-image or identity?

For me this was due to pregnancy, and it contributed significantly to depression and anxiety at that time. I didn't like feeling that I had no focus or sense of purpose.

tall73 said:
- Does it tie in to class identification? (blue collar workers, upper class, etc.)

Probably, but I think that would need some teasing out for me to work out exactly how it ties in. The place of the clergy in class structures is something about which I feel ambivalent at the best of times; often we're associated with the middle class or the establishment, yet Christ calls us to solidarity with those most disadvantaged...

ValleyGal · Mar 24, 2018

While I am not really at liberty to discuss how work affected our marriage, I can say that work was a significant thorn in it, and I still have a lot of resentment about it even a year and a few months later.

What I really want to say, though, is that there was a time in my life when I was stripped of the career I loved, the home and hometown I loved, and the family I tolerated. My banking information was stolen, and tens of thousands was stolen. Due to some devastating family dynamics and the theft of my information, went through an identity crisis. ... and the bottom line is, who was I when everything else in my life and my body is stripped away? What part of me can't they take, that is only mine that no one else can touch, change, steal or destroy?

I rebuilt from there, with a clear knowledge of who I am. When I married, I knew that my identity would also change again, as two become one. So I was (I thought at the time) very careful about who I chose to marry, and whether I wanted to share identity with this man. Is this someone who could both benefit from being one with me as well as me being one with?

I also know that when you spend at least a third of your life earning an income, that will also become who you are - though this is a case of the egg and the chicken - does the career determine who you are, or does who you are determine your career. Either way, it is a significant enough part of your life that you will find a significant part of your identity in your work. And you bring that back to your marriage - both of you, if you both work - and what the effect on the family is when one or both don't work.

I've been fortunate to experience working in many jobs, from cashier to receptionist, to nurse, to spa owner/practitioner, to social work. I have found each contributed to who I am, and each was a good fit with my identity. However, there is one characteristic among all that I find common enough that speaks to the true core of my identity - the piece that no one can take away from me: no matter what job or what kind of job, whether it be simple and public or it be stressful grad-level work, I work every job as though each of my clients or customers is Jesus himself. ... and that is what speaks to how I find my identity in my work - the integrity in how I serve others, including my employer (much harder to do when you have a condescending bully of a supervisor). And that is also part of how I tried to be in my marriage, for all the good it did.

mina · Mar 24, 2018

tall73 said:
Some aspects to discuss:

- Is work just part of what you do, or is it a big part of how you think of yourself?

- How does your work-life balance impact your family?

- Are work roles a source of friction in your marriage? (for instance, in some families the husband may resent if the wife makes more money, while in other families, there is no such sentiment.)

- For those who have through circumstances beyond their control lost the ability for a time to work, how did that impact your self-image or identity?

- For those who are retired, how did this impact your self-image or identity?

-For those who are stay-at-home parents, how does this impact your self-image or identity?

- Does it tie in to class identification? (blue collar workers, upper class, etc.)

Work to me is just a way to make money. I had a successful career before I got married and had children. I chose to be in a career that was more than just money. Hopefully, I had a positive impact on people in that field. Since having a family I feel more of a call to focus on them. I've worked part time privately out of my home (because of state to state licensing) and then worked again full time the year I became pregnant. I stay home now because child care is outrageously expensive and because I just want to be with my children since for years I thought that I would never get to have any/ I enjoy it. I am doing some part time education to enter a different field in a few years.

My husband and I really have no work friction in our marriage. He makes much more than me in a business that he created that required nothing that he was trained in/ a different field from the one that he was educated. He can sometimes work long hours but then is flexible to have time off later.

I didn't work at first after we were married b/c I moved to a different state and was not licensed for this one. It didn't really bother me. I enjoyed the time to relish in family things, b/c I didn't think I would ever get to have that.

I stay at home in the mom capacity but I don't really find my identity in that. I have friends with different work backgrounds and who stay at home or work. I enjoy my role and am glad to be able to stay home, but it is not all about what makes me who I am; just like work was not that for me either.

In regards to retirement and family.....when my parents retired , they were looking forward to it and have had a very full retirement life filled with good health, family/grandchildren, hobbies, travel, volunteering, learning new skills, etc... while on my husband's side retirement was seen as a bad thing and an end to an identity - anxiety, depression, what am I going to do/ who am i now sort of thing. I feel for my own life I want to be able to move on to new phases of life with excitement and looking forward. I am the type of person that is never bored so breaks from work are not scary to me at all. I am not scared of work and I am not scared of retirement. I've always tried to have a life outside of my work so that I never am just totally consumed with work (emotionally or socially), so that work is never just all there is for me or about me.

As for class identification, Professions or education levels or income can dictate class identity. Some people really take it to heart , I guess.

Tropical Wilds · Mar 25, 2018

- Is work just part of what you do, or is it a big part of how you think of yourself?

When I was doing something I loved, it became a huuuuge part of my life. Then I got THE job that was perfect in every way, from mission statement to pay to the type of work to where it was done... I basically adopted Don Draper’s workaholic attitude... And then I got laid off one day before we moved into a rental house. I went way off the rails in terms of my belief of my self worth, my contributions to the family, etc etc.

That’s when I took a good hard look and realized that was more than a little unhealthy. Then I recalibrated a bit... And I’m glad I did. Being perminately disabled now, I wouldn’t have gone through this adjustment as well as I did (and it’s not like I went through it well anyway).

Now my only worry is I pour too much of that attitude I was putting into my work in terms of self-identity etc into being a parent.

- How does your work-life balance impact your family?

At the time, it was really stressful for everybody, though nobody told me because they knew how much it meant to me.

- Are work roles a source of friction in your marriage? (for instance, in some families the husband may resent if the wife makes more money, while in other families, there is no such sentiment.)

My husband wouldn’t care even remotely slightly and, before being disabled, my dream was to be good enough at what I did that I could support him like he supported us. For all his big talk, though, I don’t think his pride would allow him to accept that dynamic. He’s worked full time since he was 14 and while I’m sure he’d love the break, for him, a tremendous amount of pride and satisfaction comes in knowing he supports a family of five in his home and then two of those five (Kids from his first marriage) in a second household on his income. He loves that he can say he takes care of me and allows me to recover from illness or be there for the kids or simply have time to myself because I don’t have to work.

- For those who have through circumstances beyond their control lost the ability for a time to work, how did that impact your self-image or identity?

For me, tailspin. But it allowed me to reevaluate my priorities and have faith in those around me and it was a gift in disguise.

- For those who are retired, how did this impact your self-image or identity?

N/a.

-For those who are stay-at-home parents, how does this impact your self-image or identity?

It’s a huuuuuuuuge part of my identity and self image.

- Does it tie in to class identification? (blue collar workers, upper class, etc.)

That doesn’t bother me.

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

johndoo said:
My work is my identity 98% or so.
I probably have a work addiction.
My wife has resigned herself to me being a work-a-holic.
I make most of the money and so I have been known to bring that up as the trump card in a few discussions. Bad, I know.
I haven't been as good of a father as I would have liked.

Do you still have time to turn it around on the father front?

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

Paidiske said:
Churches tend to operate on the assumption that the minister will work all the hours God gives, and that if they have a family, they will have a spouse who will dutifully manage all of that so you can focus on ministry. I have to work really hard to try not to let work take over (so that I can actually have a day off etc) and I often fail.

Do you have a fixed day off, and do you publish it for the congregation to know? Obviously emergencies come up anytime, and there is no way around the on-call nature of things.

It does help that we live on site, so at least my family doesn't lose to a commute etc. I can sit at my desk and still be here when my daughter gets home from school; and that sort of stuff helps.

We had one district where we were right next to the church and one where were a bit of a distance. I always thought that being on site might be worse because then folks expect you to always be ready to just drop by.

For me this was due to pregnancy, and it contributed significantly to depression and anxiety at that time. I didn't like feeling that I had no focus or sense of purpose.

This kind of goes back to your reluctance to marry. You mentioned it earlier, but I wasn't sure if you were just worried that married life could bring conflict, or if you felt you were called to be single and dedicate yourself full time.

I am trying to understand the thought process on this one, because it is foreign to me, both as I have never been pregnant for obvious reasons, and because I wouldn't view being pregnant as without a purpose!

Probably, but I think that would need some teasing out for me to work out exactly how it ties in. The place of the clergy in class structures is something about which I feel ambivalent at the best of times; often we're associated with the middle class or the establishment, yet Christ calls us to solidarity with those most disadvantaged...

Interesting. You think that in Australia they are seen as the establishment? Ethically or politically? Or otherwise?

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

RedPonyDriver said:
It's pretty much most of my identity.

That would compound the problems from your accident then, I would imagine.

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

ValleyGal said:
What I really want to say, though, is that there was a time in my life when I was stripped of the career I loved, the home and hometown I loved, and the family I tolerated. My banking information was stolen, and tens of thousands was stolen. Due to some devastating family dynamics and the theft of my information, went through an identity crisis. ... and the bottom line is, who was I when everything else in my life and my body is stripped away? What part of me can't they take, that is only mine that no one else can touch, change, steal or destroy?

Those are some difficult times of transition. We had a similar experience at one point, and it does force you to re-evaluate. It is not pleasant, but perhaps is good to look at what you are apart from just your work roles.

I've been fortunate to experience working in many jobs, from cashier to receptionist, to nurse, to spa owner/practitioner, to social work. I have found each contributed to who I am, and each was a good fit with my identity. However, there is one characteristic among all that I find common enough that speaks to the true core of my identity - the piece that no one can take away from me: no matter what job or what kind of job, whether it be simple and public or it be stressful grad-level work, I work every job as though each of my clients or customers is Jesus himself. ... and that is what speaks to how I find my identity in my work - the integrity in how I serve others, including my employer (much harder to do when you have a condescending bully of a supervisor).

Great philosophy of work. And I too have had jobs where I was able to be of service. Sometimes it is difficult when the customer is having a rough time and takes it out on you. I was fortunate to pretty much have always great supervisors though. That would complicate things.

Paidiske · Mar 26, 2018

tall73 said:
Do you have a fixed day off, and do you publish it for the congregation to know? Obviously emergencies come up anytime, and there is no way around the on-call nature of things.

My day off is Saturday, and that's published etc. I aim to manage my work during the week so that I can finish at the end of Friday afternoon and have a true day off; but all it takes is a funeral, for example, and my whole week can be thrown out of whack. But all the usual stuff still has to happen (nobody's going to be happy if there's no sermon because someone died this week) so that's when Saturday becomes the soft spot that gets sacrificed.

tall73 said:
We had one district where we were right next to the church and one where were a bit of a distance. I always thought that being on site might be worse because then folks expect you to always be ready to just drop by.

I've done both, and I'll take being on site any day. The inconvenience of people dropping by is nowhere near the inconvenience of a commute.

tall73 said:
This kind of goes back to your reluctance to marry. You mentioned it earlier, but I wasn't sure if you were just worried that married life could bring conflict, or if you felt you were called to be single and dedicate yourself full time.

I am trying to understand the thought process on this one, because it is foreign to me, both as I have never been pregnant for obvious reasons, and because I wouldn't view being pregnant as without a purpose!

I've never felt specifically called to be single, but I never wanted to be a housewife or mother.

I hated being pregnant; it was terrible for my mental health (not helped by the fact that all through the pregnancy I'd been told to expect to lose the baby; there were significant medical problems). And I hated being kept from work and study (I was a student at the time, and I actually got kicked out of college). It was that - the kind of forced stay-at-home status - that felt like it had no purpose.

tall73 said:
Interesting. You think that in Australia they are seen as the establishment? Ethically or politically? Or otherwise?

Although we have no Established church, we have the legacy of having been a collection of English colonies with an Established church. Many Church of England priests also acted as civil magistrates here (eg: the "flogging parson"). And there are traces of Establishment in various practices. Parliament still opens with (Christian) prayer. That sort of thing. That legacy is not entirely erased from the public consciousness, which tends to see the Church as having the social role of control/oppression of the masses. (Not helped by the way we speak publicly about some issues).

Add in that being clergy means that you're highly educated (on the whole; there are a few fringe churches who might call someone without a theology degree, but that's not the norm), and that puts you solidly in a different "class" (in Australia's supposedly classless society) than many folk in farming or industrial areas, who may not even have finished school.

For example, one of the guys who was ordained with me was sent to a parish on the fringe of the city, where many of the people are involved in agriculture. He tells me he never wears a clerical collar; no one in his parish would wear a collared shirt, so to dress in that way would set him apart from them in class in a very unhelpful way.

On the other hand, I've tended to work in very affluent middle-class areas (not because I sought them, but because that's what the bishop thought was a good idea) and dressing "well" - including the collar - is a big part of how I reassure my parishioners that I am, in fact, someone who can relate to them, and who reflects their expectations of the church and its place in the world.

If that makes sense?

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

Paidiske said:
My day off is Saturday, and that's published etc. I aim to manage my work during the week so that I can finish at the end of Friday afternoon and have a true day off; but all it takes is a funeral, for example, and my whole week can be thrown out of whack. But all the usual stuff still has to happen (nobody's going to be happy if there's no sermon because someone died this week) so that's when Saturday becomes the soft spot that gets sacrificed.

I've done both, and I'll take being on site any day. The inconvenience of people dropping by is nowhere near the inconvenience of a commute.

I've never felt specifically called to be single, but I never wanted to be a housewife or mother.

I hated being pregnant; it was terrible for my mental health (not helped by the fact that all through the pregnancy I'd been told to expect to lose the baby; there were significant medical problems). And I hated being kept from work and study (I was a student at the time, and I actually got kicked out of college). It was that - the kind of forced stay-at-home status - that felt like it had no purpose.

Although we have no Established church, we have the legacy of having been a collection of English colonies with an Established church. Many Church of England priests also acted as civil magistrates here (eg: the "flogging parson"). And there are traces of Establishment in various practices. Parliament still opens with (Christian) prayer. That sort of thing. That legacy is not entirely erased from the public consciousness, which tends to see the Church as having the social role of control/oppression of the masses. (Not helped by the way we speak publicly about some issues).

Add in that being clergy means that you're highly educated (on the whole; there are a few fringe churches who might call someone without a theology degree, but that's not the norm), and that puts you solidly in a different "class" (in Australia's supposedly classless society) than many folk in farming or industrial areas, who may not even have finished school.

For example, one of the guys who was ordained with me was sent to a parish on the fringe of the city, where many of the people are involved in agriculture. He tells me he never wears a clerical collar; no one in his parish would wear a collared shirt, so to dress in that way would set him apart from them in class in a very unhelpful way.

On the other hand, I've tended to work in very affluent middle-class areas (not because I sought them, but because that's what the bishop thought was a good idea) and dressing "well" - including the collar - is a big part of how I reassure my parishioners that I am, in fact, someone who can relate to them, and who reflects their expectations of the church and its place in the world.

If that makes sense?

Interesting stuff! Yeah, the idea of clergy magistrates just sounds like it would be bad for both sides of the equation, but that is probably my American side talking. I understand that was historical, but it would give a different overall perception to the church.

There are a lot of denominations that require high amounts of education here. But we probably have more overall groups that do not. So I think folks probably view them on a denomination by denomination basis--those who even know the difference anymore between denominations.

I worked in some rural areas and they definitely still wanted me to dress up. But they were suspicious of the Seminary folks. They referred to it as the cemetery!

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

mina said:
I stay home now because child care is outrageously expensive and because I just want to be with my children since for years I thought that I would never get to have any/ I enjoy it. I am doing some part time education to enter a different field in a few years.

We found the same. My wife wanted to be with the kids, and by the time we figured in day care it might not have made much economic sense anyway.

Though often she and the kids could go with me for visits, etc.

It can be tough though once you go to re-enter the business world. She has two degrees, but if you haven't used it in a while they basically don't even consider it.

In regards to retirement and family.....when my parents retired , they were looking forward to it and have had a very full retirement life filled with good health, family/grandchildren, hobbies, travel, volunteering, learning new skills, etc... while on my husband's side retirement was seen as a bad thing and an end to an identity - anxiety, depression, what am I going to do/ who am i now sort of thing. I feel for my own life I want to be able to move on to new phases of life with excitement and looking forward. I am the type of person that is never bored so breaks from work are not scary to me at all. I am not scared of work and I am not scared of retirement. I've always tried to have a life outside of my work so that I never am just totally consumed with work (emotionally or socially), so that work is never just all there is for me or about me.

It is hard to have that balance, and a lot do struggle with identity and purpose after retirement.

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

Tropical Wilds said:
For me, tailspin. But it allowed me to reevaluate my priorities and have faith in those around me and it was a gift in disguise.

I think the fact that it happens to you, rather than choice, makes a big difference. And the issue you are dealing with is a terrible one. My father died from Crohn's related infections at a relatively young age. And it can really impact your life in negative ways.

But you are correct, that sometimes it forces you to take inventory, and can be a blessing of sorts to step back.

Paidiske · Mar 26, 2018

tall73 said:
Interesting stuff! Yeah, the idea of clergy magistrates just sounds like it would be bad for both sides of the equation, but that is probably my American side talking.

I don't think it was great here either. But that sort of stuff is part of what makes people suspicious of church.

tall73 said:
There are a lot of denominations that require high amounts of education here. But we probably have more overall groups that do not. So I think folks probably view them on a denomination by denomination basis--those who even know the difference anymore between denominations.

I worked in some rural areas and they definitely still wanted me to dress up. But they were suspicious of the Seminary folks. They referred to it as the cemetery!

One thing to bear in mind about Australia is that there are only really three denominations of any significant size, demographically. They're the Catholics - more than twice as big as anyone else - the Anglicans and the Uniting Church (a union of Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists). After that - off the top of my head - it's the Buddhists and Muslims before any other Christian group, but even the Buddhists are a tiny proportion of the population. That means that anyone secular (which is most of the population; only 10% of Australians are regular worshippers of any faith) is unlikely to know anything about any other Christian denomination, or have any experience of them. Even as an Anglican, I find that most non-churched people basically assume we're Catholic in doctrine, praxis etc; because that's all they've ever experienced. So many people perceive "clergy" in general as if we're basically Catholic priests, and that shapes their reactions too. (I get asked a lot if I'm allowed to marry, if I'm a nun, that sort of thing).

tall73 · Mar 26, 2018

Paidiske said:
I don't think it was great here either. But that sort of stuff is part of what makes people suspicious of church.

One thing to bear in mind about Australia is that there are only really three denominations of any significant size, demographically. They're the Catholics - more than twice as big as anyone else - the Anglicans and the Uniting Church (a union of Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists). After that - off the top of my head - it's the Buddhists and Muslims before any other Christian group, but even the Buddhists are a tiny proportion of the population. That means that anyone secular (which is most of the population; only 10% of Australians are regular worshippers of any faith) is unlikely to know anything about any other Christian denomination, or have any experience of them. Even as an Anglican, I find that most non-churched people basically assume we're Catholic in doctrine, praxis etc; because that's all they've ever experienced. So many people perceive "clergy" in general as if we're basically Catholic priests, and that shapes their reactions too. (I get asked a lot if I'm allowed to marry, if I'm a nun, that sort of thing).

Yeah, that is quite different than the American experience. And I can see how that would be frustrating being lumped in with other groups that skew the perception.

Paidiske · Mar 26, 2018

Actually, on the whole it gives me an advantage; because the main reaction I get from secular folk when I answer that in fact I'm a priest, and that women can be priests in my denomination, is delight to find a church that isn't oppressive of women etc. I remember a woman stopping me in the street once to get her young child to talk to me, "so that she can see that women can be anything."

That gives me a conversation-starter, if you like, in a positive way.

So it's not always a bad thing!

How much of your identity is tied to your work?

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