My big mouth put me in a weird position

Glaucus said:

I don't know why it was hard for me to say, Willie. I do find that people don't understand my faith in the USA.

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That's cool. From here on out, you have a chance to work on that. Kylisa knows I sure don't understand the Ancient Way, but she and I are able to talk about it all the time.

(And I felt funny telling people the first few times too ... it's a balance I learned over time. Even now I'm so restricted on food, I can't eat most of what is served after Liturgy. So I try to find ways to not stand out and people not to realize I'm not eating, so as to make no one uncomfortable. And it's not just a Church Fast - I physically must not eat these things. But we learn over time.)

Glaucus said:

Those Latins have it easy, ha!

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In many ways. LOL!

I think we get the better deal though.

Glaucus said:

I did. I feel shame for not just saying it.

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No! There is no need to feel shame. That is something else to work on. Shame need not exist in a Christian's life.

staff edit

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No - more a general atmosphere.

I remember back home it was worse, because if you told someone you were fasting, they would be all "oh, wow, that's so great of you, you are awesome, I wish I could, but you know I will maybe the last week or two weeks, eh? what do you think... you must be so disciplined, what does your grandma say, Ms. So-and-so is your grandma, no? she must be so proud, but I mean she is almost a holy woman of course you would be keeping the whole Lent... but you know I have stomach acid and low blood sugar and I get dizzy when I fast and I really wish I could..."

Andrei D said:

I remember back home it was worse, because if you told someone you were fasting, they would be all "oh, wow, that's so great of you, you are awesome, I wish I could, but you know I will maybe the last week or two weeks, eh? what do you think... you must be so disciplined, what does your grandma say, Ms. So-and-so is your grandma, no? she must be so proud, but I mean she is almost a holy woman of course you would be keeping the whole Lent... but you know I have stomach acid and low blood sugar and I get dizzy when I fast and I really wish I could..."

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Oh my LOL!

I think I'd learn to say nothing too, lol.

Andrei D said:

I remember back home it was worse, because if you told someone you were fasting, they would be all "oh, wow, that's so great of you, you are awesome, I wish I could, but you know I will maybe the last week or two weeks, eh? what do you think... you must be so disciplined, what does your grandma say, Ms. So-and-so is your grandma, no? she must be so proud, but I mean she is almost a holy woman of course you would be keeping the whole Lent... but you know I have stomach acid and low blood sugar and I get dizzy when I fast and I really wish I could..."

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Seems the perfect opportunity to share ALL SORTS of things about why you do it, what you feel it gives you, and where you get the "strength" to handle it.
But, that means sharing something of yourself, and I have learned that is not necessarily the EO way.

Willie T said:

I would be curious as to why, when you were having this back and forth "Yes", "No" exchange with her, you couldn't have simply said you were doing a "church abstinence thing", and would not be able to enjoy her offer of a gift until after a certain date. Even some Protestant churches also do Lent, so it would not have been unusual to say, would it?

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One of the things we are taught is to not make a big deal about the fast to others. This often includes talking about it, etc. We are taught that if we are offered food out of hospitality and we can’t decline gracefully, that we should accept and eat a smaller portion than normal - and get right back to the fast afterwards. Essentially it is related to the passage in Matthew 6. At times, it is an appropriate way to share our faith - but even then, we need to make sure to not be boastful or anything along those lines. It’s a fine balance. We do tend to talk about it more than normal here in TAW, since we are in the Orthodox forum - but IRL, we don’t always bring it up, unless the situation is appropriate.

Willie T said:

Seems the perfect opportunity to share ALL SORTS of things about why you do it, what you feel it gives you, and where you get the "strength" to handle it.
But, that means sharing something of yourself, and I have learned that is not necessarily the EO way.

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This has been something my family (not Orthodox) and I do - sharing why I do it, etc. That said, it is different with my family or my close friends than someone who I am not close with (such as a coworker). Sharing the gospel on the other hand - that’s a completely different story.

All4Christ said:

This has been something my family and I do - sharing why I do it, etc. That said, it is different with my family or my close friends than someone who I am not close with (such as a coworker). Sharing the gospel on the other hand - that’s a completely different story.

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I have to admit, I don't understand that. But, then my congregation spells "faith", R-I-S-K. To us, "playing it safe" isn't really living out our lives in faith.

Willie T said:

I have to admit, I don't understand that. But, then my congregation spells "faith", R-I-S-K. To us, "playing it safe" isn't really living out our lives in faith.

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It isn’t “playing it safe”. It’s living out your faith without boasting. That said, we need to be ready to share the gospel and our faith at all times, and we certainly don’t avoid speaking about our faith. Actions speak louder than words...and we can introduce people to our faith in steps. Focus on the gospel first - on sharing Christ. Then we can explain the ways we practice out our faith.

It’s all related to Matthew 6:


1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Luke 11:1-4)



5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Proper Fasting

16Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 17But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly

I made you a promise, K. I will try to keep it.

All4Christ said:

One of the things we are taught is to not make a big deal about the fast to others. This often includes talking about it, etc. We are taught that if we are offered food out of hospitality, that we should accept and eat a smaller portion than normal - and get right back to the fast afterwards. Essentially it is related to the passage in Matthew 6. At times, it is an appropriate way to share our faith - but even then, we need to make sure to not be boastful or anything along those lines. It’s a fine balance. We do tend to talk about it more than normal here in TAW, since we are in the Orthodox forum - but IRL, we don’t always bring it up, unless the situation is appropriate.

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Probably correct.

You don't boast, and you don't complain about fasting. You don't look despondent or disheveled because you're fasting. If you feel so weak because of fasting, it's time to talk to your priest about altering the way you fast, but you must not end up walking around like an emaciated ghost or miss work or the such. You don't moan and slobber and say "I wish I could eat that but I can't because I'm fasting". You don't go arounds saying "oh, I feel so light and more energetic, fasting is really healthy for me" either.

But I think that is it.

For now, I will stay with the advice of every single priest in my mother church, which is that during Lent you're not supposed to go on visits or to parties or to restaurants to begin with. And if someone offers you food at random, there is absolutely no injunction in the Church or in the polite society that you must accept no matter what. I am not saying it's a wrong teaching, I'm just very certain it is not mandatory by any measure, unless anyone quotes a church canon that says so

Also, it is absolutely not forbidden to share our faith.

If someone asks 'hey, how come you don't put cream in your coffee anymore?" or "are you a vegetarian now?" then it's okay to say "oh, no, it's because it's Lent".

Willie T said:

I have to admit, I don't understand that. But, then my congregation spells "faith", R-I-S-K. To us, "playing it safe" isn't really living out our lives in faith.

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I have to admit, I don't either.

Generally the Orthodox Church does not encourage aggressive proselytizing, but we are definitely obligated to confess our faith when appropriate, and especially if there may be negative consequences to doing so. We are not supposed to actively seek out people to convert, and bug people to death. And particularly, we are not supposed to attach a sermon to an act of charity. Ever. But there is no secrecy of any kind or measure. Why say you're supposed to "keep a lit lamp under a basket"? Do we not pray every morning with these words of Psalm 50: "Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners shall be converted to You"?

Andrei D said:

Probably correct.

You don't boast, and you don't complain about fasting. You don't look despondent or disheveled because you're fasting. If you feel so weak because of fasting, it's time to talk to your priest about altering the way you fast, but you must not end up walking around like an emaciated ghost or miss work or the such. You don't moan and slobber and say "I wish I could eat that but I can't because I'm fasting". You don't go arounds saying "oh, I feel so light and more energetic, fasting is really healthy for me" either.

But I think that is it.

For now, I will stay with the advice of every single priest in my mother church, which is that during Lent you're not supposed to go on visits or to parties or to restaurants to begin with. And if someone offers you food at random, there is absolutely no injunction in the Church or in the polite society that you must accept no matter what. I am not saying it's a wrong teaching, I'm just very certain it is not mandatory by any measure, unless anyone quotes a church canon that says so

Also, it is absolutely not forbidden to share our faith.

If someone asks 'hey, how come you don't put cream in your coffee anymore?" or "are you a vegetarian now?" then it's okay to say "oh, no, it's because it's Lent".

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Certainly, I agree with that. I don’t mean to not share our faith or the reasons why. However, we can be aware of the situation and how it will come across to different people.

Despite what I said above, many people close to me do know about the fast - and we share it as a way that we grow closer to God. However, there is a time and a place. We shouldn’t ever say it in a way that makes us sound like we are “holier than thou” or anything like that.

We shouldn’t go to parties or anything like that and put ourselves in the situation where we are likely to get into that position. However, if my grandma invites me to her home and serves me something with dairy, I will gracefully accept it, try to eat other non-dairy things as much as possible, but accept it nonetheless. Again, there is a balance.

Andrei D said:

Probably correct.

You don't boast, and you don't complain about fasting. You don't look despondent or disheveled because you're fasting. If you feel so weak because of fasting, it's time to talk to your priest about altering the way you fast, but you must not end up walking around like an emaciated ghost or miss work or the such. You don't moan and slobber and say "I wish I could eat that but I can't because I'm fasting". You don't go arounds saying "oh, I feel so light and more energetic, fasting is really healthy for me" either.

But I think that is it.

For now, I will stay with the advice of every single priest in my mother church, which is that during Lent you're not supposed to go on visits or to parties or to restaurants to begin with. And if someone offers you food at random, there is absolutely no injunction in the Church or in the polite society that you must accept no matter what. I am not saying it's a wrong teaching, I'm just very certain it is not mandatory by any measure, unless anyone quotes a church canon that says so

Also, it is absolutely not forbidden to share our faith.

If someone asks 'hey, how come you don't put cream in your coffee anymore?" or "are you a vegetarian now?" then it's okay to say "oh, no, it's because it's Lent".



I have to admit, I don't either.

Generally the Orthodox Church does not encourage aggressive proselytizing, but we are definitely obligated to confess our faith when appropriate, and especially if there may be negative consequences to doing so. We are not supposed to actively seek out people to convert, and bug people to death. And particularly, we are not supposed to attach a sermon to an act of charity. Ever. But there is no secrecy of any kind or measure. Why say you're supposed to "keep a lit lamp under a basket"? Do we not pray every morning with these words of Psalm 50: "Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners shall be converted to You"?

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And I absolutely agree with the last part. I don’t think anything I said implied otherwise.

Yeah, I re-read everything and I agree with everything you said too... Including the fact that there has to be a balance (which is sometimes tricky).

I guess, I assumed someone said something different, because certainly @Willie T thought someone said we shouldn't share our faith.

Glaucus said:

Willie, I don't think the problem really comes from sharing the fast, but the reaction to it. People who are without understanding can see you as holy and righteous, and build up your pride and ego, and send you into sin, without ever intending it.

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Agreed.