LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

Peter1000 said:

How do you measure what the Savior said in this scripture:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How do your measure more righteousness than the scribes and the Pharisees?

If you can answer this question, you can answer fatboys question.

But, know that if your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall in no case enter into the KOH. IOW there is not automatic passes. Righteousness means something to Jesus.

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Jane_Doe said:

The LDS disagreement is not with the Bible, but with the Creeds. We believe that True doctrine comes from God via scriptural revelation. The Creeds are not scripture, but were written by men. Also, the Christian churches today differ in theology from each other (Baptists vs Catholics vs Orthodox etc). God does not author 7 different theology, or the 34,000+ different denotations found today. (All of the above is talking about theology).

Still, despite misunderstandings in theology, an person can still love God and devote themselves to God. No one here is questioning people's love of Christ. No one here is calling any person an apostate.

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there is nothing in the creeds that would cause Jesus to start a new church. Jesus did not lead a rebellion against his churches.

Jesus spoke of a bodily resurrection on the last day where he would gather his elect from the ends of the heavens. That is his fathers will.

Randy777 said:

You expect me to believe none of the churches were Jesus’s. Yet in Rev Jesus had good and bad to say about each of the 7 churches.
Even to this day as I have stated faith in His name many belong to Jesus who have never followed JS. There are 12 foundations to the New Jerusalem and they are named after the 12 Apostles of the lamb.
And the churches are filled with many faithful compassionate believers of Jesus Christ. rather I think the fault was in the heart of JS not ALL the churches of Jesus Christ. and God the Father was not taught to be a physical being and no man may see His face and live as He told Moses.

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At onetime they were less corrup but after the death of the apostles revelation to the whole of the church ceased. As did the authority to act on God’s name.

Randy777 said:

there is nothing in the creeds that would cause Jesus to start a new church. Jesus did not lead a rebellion against his churches. you will earn the lower reaches as you and yours are outside the faith.

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It’s not spoken to either apostles or prophets yetis considered on the same level as scriptures even though man wrote it.

Randy777 said:

there is nothing in the creeds that would cause Jesus to start a new church. Jesus did not lead a rebellion against his churches.

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LDS don't believe Christ lead a rebellion against His Church, or created a new one. Rather restored His one Church. The other churches* were in rebellion against Him and apostatized.
*Again, stressing that we are talking about large scale here, not individuals. Obviously the individuals love Christ.

Randy777 said:

Jesus spoke of a bodily resurrection on the last day where he would gather his elect from the ends of the heavens. That is his fathers will.

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Agreed.

Randy777 said:

Father, Son, Holy Spirit is found in the NT as well as the Son being the exact image of the invisible God. That is not corruption. There are only 12 true Apostles of the Lord and they are in heaven. What JS has done is corruption.

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No, it was never Christ's will to only have 12 apostles ever-- that's why more were called after His ascension. Christ set up apostles in His church and that should never change.

Jane_Doe said:

Churches found in different locations. Not having 7 different theologies.

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Actually, some of them did, and that's what God had against them.

The Church of Pergamum (Rev. 2:14-16) 14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.

The Church of Thyatira (Rev. 2:20) 20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

Jane_Doe said:

LDS don't believe Christ lead a rebellion against His Church, or created a new one. Rather restored His one Church. The other churches* were in rebellion against Him and apostatized.
*Again, stressing that we are talking about large scale here, not individuals. Obviously the individuals love Christ.

Agreed.

No, it was never Christ's will to only have 12 apostles ever-- that's why more were called after His ascension. Christ set up apostles in His church and that should never change.

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The foundations are 12 in number. There was nothing that needed to be restored. The only other covenant is the one found in the OT. The covenant Jesus introduced By His blood was in place.

Randy777 said:

The foundations are 12 in number. There was nothing that needed to be restored. The only other covenant is the one found in the OT. The covenant Jesus introduced By His blood was in place.

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Thank you for sharing your belief here. I respect it.
I was simply sharing mine.

Randy777 said:

They all base it off the NT

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And are you thinking LDS are just ignoring the NT?

Jane_Doe said:

And are you thinking LDS are just ignoring the NT?

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No you just added to it. Where does it state god is a physical being?

Randy777 said:

No you just added to it.

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The LDS belief in replacing apostles after their death is very much in the Bible, see Acts 1:15– 26 for an example.

Jane_Doe said:

The LDS belief in replacing apostles after their death is very much in the Bible, see Acts 1:15– 26 for an example.

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We

Jane_Doe said:

The LDS belief in replacing apostles after their death is very much in the Bible, see Acts 1:15– 26 for an example.

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that’s recorded because that’s what they did in other words a true accounting of what took place. But we read they prayed and it’s clear they failed to wait for an answer from the lord. And they only sought to replace Judas. Paul was set aside from birth why then would God accept one of the two they chose? Or prompt them to seek Judas,s replacement. They picked two then cast lots. Jesus picked Paul. Who as we read is a true apostle of the lord. Why then according to your methods do you not believe the pope is a apostle?

There are 12 foundations and those positions have been filled long before JS was.

Randy777 said:

We

that’s recorded because that’s what they did in other words a true accounting of what took place. But we read they prayed and it’s clear they failed to wait for an answer from the lord. And they only sought to replace Judas. Paul was set aside from birth why then would God accept one of the two they chose? Or prompt them to seek Judas,s replacement. They picked two then cast lots. Jesus picked Paul. Who as we read is a true apostle of the lord. Why then according to your methods do you not believe the pope is a apostle?

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(Making sure I understand you correctly)
You believe that the 11 Apostles incorrectly selected Matthias to be a Apostle of the Lord, correct?

Jane_Doe said:

(Making sure I understand you correctly)
You believe that the 11 Apostles incorrectly selected Matthias to be a Apostle of the Lord, correct?

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Paul was set aside at birth before he had done good or bad. God already had chosen the replacement. They failed to wait for a answer from the lord.

This was found in their favor :their motives were pure and they could not have known Paul was set aside at birth.

Randy777 said:

Paul was set aside at birth before he had done good or bad. God already had chosen the replacement. They failed to wait for a answer from the lord.

This was found in their favor :their motives were pure and they could not have known Paul was set aside at birth.

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So you believe that the 11 Apostles in Acts 1 all failed and rebelled against the Lord?
This is a different view I have not encountered before.

Jane_Doe said:

So you believe that the 11 Apostles in Acts 1 all failed and rebelled against the Lord?
This is a different view I have not encountered before.

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Again this is in their favor:their motives were pure and they could not have known Paul was set aside at birth.

Randy777 said:

Again this is in their favor:their motives were pure and they could not have known Paul was set aside at birth.

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But you still believe they failed and rebelled against the Lord?

Perhaps you should consult the gospel according to Matthias. (Smile)

Jane_Doe said:

But you still believe they failed and rebelled against the Lord?

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No I think their motives were pure. What I believe is they failed to wait on a answer to their prayers.