What if worse persecution and killings were to happen in the US?

Lik3

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I have too read and heard about the persecution of the churches (and mosques, synagogues, and temples) around the world. The persecution is quite widespread in some countries more than others. I know about Jewish synagogues and graves being desecrated, churches being burned, and the prejudice and oppression of Sikhs and Muslims. I am writing about the United States for instance. Not to downplay those horrible instances and the loss of life and property, but what if it was worse like in other nations?

I have read, heard, and seen about the more widespread persecution of different religious groups in other nations. The persecution happens on a much larger scale than here in the US. However, how would you deal or react to even greater persecution and prejudice than we already have in the United States? What if it were to happen, say for example, if more churches were burned, causing people to have their services performed in secret and later the preachers were being threatened like what happened to this one preacher in India?

What if this were to happen in for example, the Bible Belt in the US? I ask this because as an American, I personally believe that what I as a Christian would go through here is nothing like what other believers for instance, would go through in other nations. How should an American who is for an example a professed Christian deal with the more widespread persecution? What would or should any of us do? Do you believe that you would stand strong or would you be afraid?
 
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FireDragon76

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The US has a First Amendment so it's not likely to happen here. Having said that, churches might be targeted by criminals and terrorists. Some churches have already been attacked, usually ones associated with politically progressive causes, like the shooting at the Unitarian church in Kentucky years ago, or more recently I've heard of Episcopalian and Metropolitan Community churches being vandalized.
 
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gadar perets

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Ideally, we should stand strong and not be afraid. How one will really react in such situations is unknown. We should also rejoice and be exceedingly glad knowing that our reward is in heaven and that we are in good company with the prophets and Yeshua himself (Matthew 5:12).
 
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gadar perets

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I personally believe that what I as a Christian would go through here is nothing like what other believers for instance, would go through in other nations.
Less or more severe?
 
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Dave-W

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What if this were to happen in for example, the Bible Belt in the US? I ask this because as an American, I personally believe that what I as a Christian would go through here is nothing like what other believers for instance, would go through in other nations. How should an American who is for an example a professed Christian deal with the more widespread persecution? What would or should any of us do? Do you believe that you would stand strong or would you be afraid?
It is not a matter of "if it happens" but of "when it happens." It WILL happen here and the fact it has not yet is either due to our NOT living up to proper Christian ideals or GOD has blessed us with a period of relative calm and peace. But Paul promised Timothy that "Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." 2 Timothy 3:12
 
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Shadow

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How should an American who is for an example a professed Christian deal with the more widespread persecution? What would or should any of us do?

There are basically two ways this could happen. The first is by legal means, that the constitution of the United States is amended in such a way to restrict freedom of religion, or else that the constitution is entirely re-written.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

This could come as a supreme court decision which re-interprets the first amendment by redefining "no law respecting an establishment of religion" as that establishment means either the existence of organised religion in the US or its public practice (i.e. Religion "must" be restricted to a private sphere to be defined by the courts if it is not to be considered "established"). The Law is ultimately made by man and can be changed and re-defined by man, but as far as legal systems are concerned it would have to be a coherent "interpretation" so it can be applied in multiple instances through out the courts. For this to happen, you'd need a new legal philosophy to take hold of the court system and for the legal profession and courts to accept it. Such a change is unlikely to occur in isolation because it is an attack on individual rights and the boundary between what the government can regulate ("public" activities) and cannot regulate ("private" activities).

The second method is illegal, i.e. in direct contradiction to the First Amendment and the constitution. You'd be dealing with either armed gangs acting illegally under the current system smashing churches, burning bibles, persecuting believers and lynching priests. The law would have to be either ineffective or indifferent but this is theoretically possible under the current system (think KKK lynching Blacks or rioting).

At the far end of the spectrum is the (illegal) overthrow of the US government, the constitution and first amendment by a group that actively seeks to persecute Christians. Whether it were State Atheists (i.e. Communists) or Theocratic (such as Islamic Fundamentalists or somehow militant Buddhists or another religion) or perhaps a group that wants organised religion to be subordinate to the state (Fascists/Nazis) you'd then be in a situation in which the "law" of these new governments says it is the right and duty of people to persecute Christians as "un-believers" of the official state doctrine. One possibility to consider is that one group of Christians establish an American Theorcracy but then seeks to eliminate adherents of "heretical" christian groups. It is also possible that, wanting to ensure their legitimacy, they keep the constitution but fundamentally alter its meaning (as happens in the first "legal" approach).

However you look at it, this change would be the result of a mass movement that radically changes the conditions for Christians to practice their faith or how the government treats it. Whilst there are groups in the US who are vocal in criticising Christianity, there are few who will openly and explicitly advocate rejecting the individual's freedom of religion, or the destruction of people and property because of its association with the Christian faith. Mass Movements do not develop over night, so this worst case scenario would probably take decades to actually come to fruition assuming it could happen. There is a lot of sensationalism, and people tend to throw accusations of "Radical Islam", "Fascist" and "Communist" around, but the real thing in wanting to monopolise political power and enforce a state doctrine is very rare.

The rise of revolutionary movements wanting to destroy Christianity would produce some major warning signs well before this could even happen like a second American revolution, military coup and end of civilian government, or a second US civil war, a successful invasion and occupation of the US, or the election of a Radical "Third" party that would implement these changes under the current system. Whilst we may complain about the Republicans and the Democrats, they are really debating the scope of religion and secularism under the constitution, individual rights and freedom of religion- so its really unlikely either one of them will produce this because they are not ideological predisposed to it.

Assuming it happened, Christians have to believe that these changes are wrong and act on that belief. There would be huge social and psychological pressures not to and to simply conform, and perhaps even the threat of violence if someone tried not to go along with it. Unless Christians were able to organise in a "counter-movement" that could offer serious resistance, it depends on the actions of individuals or small groups of Christians to act on their conscience at their own risk.

It should be relatively self-evident that the extreme nature of the changes involved and the time required for them to become widely acceptable. So you're pretty safe.

Do you believe that you would stand strong or would you be afraid?

I would think that the measure of a person's strength is not the absence of fear. It is the ability to accept fear, to respect it but not let it control or overwhelm you. Fear is an entirely normal response to certain situations and it is up you have to made the conscious choice over how you use and respond to it. That's the secret basically. :)
 
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Lik3

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Less or more severe?
I can say due to testimonies from people in other countries, newsletters, and other sources that sadly on a personal level, I cannot relate. As I mentioned earlier, I live the Bible Belt of the US and going to church seems to be a big part of Southern culture. I would think that persecution would happen much less in the US South than in say, India and Iran. To answer your question (hopefully I am answering it right), you can respond to less or more severe instances of persecution as compared to the United States.
 
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JackRT

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When I first noticed the title of this thread my first thought was "who would be the target of this worse persecution". Who would it be? Blacks? Jews? Homosexuals? Illegals? As I read on, I realized that Christians weren't even in my perception because there are other groups whose experience of persecution is far far worse.
 
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Dave-W

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As I read on, I realized that Christians weren't even in my perception because there are other groups whose experience of persecution is far far worse.
Get ready. We will have the brunt of it eventually.
 
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Lybrah

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The US has a First Amendment so it's not likely to happen here. Having said that, churches might be targeted by criminals and terrorists. Some churches have already been attacked, usually ones associated with politically progressive causes, like the shooting at the Unitarian church in Kentucky years ago, or more recently I've heard of Episcopalian and Metropolitan Community churches being vandalized.

But what if America imploded and collapsed for whatever reason, and the First Amendment was no longer adhered to? Martial Law = Constitution suspended
 
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Desk trauma

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But what if America imploded and collapsed for whatever reason, and the First Amendment was no longer adhered to? Martial Law = Constitution suspended
How do you imagine that would happen and why would the dominant religion be the he one in the cross hairs if it did?
 
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JackRT

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How do you imagine that would happen and why would the dominant religion be the he one in the cross hairs if it did?

That is a very pertinent question because the historical record in the USA is that it is minority groups that are the target of persecution --- native peoples, blacks, Jews, Catholics, immigrants of every sort, homosexuals, feminists, etc. --- just name your target --- it is never the dominant community.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I have too read and heard about the persecution of the churches (and mosques, synagogues, and temples) around the world. The persecution is quite widespread in some countries more than others. I know about Jewish synagogues and graves being desecrated, churches being burned, and the prejudice and oppression of Sikhs and Muslims.

And execution of atheists in the islamic middle east.


Not to downplay those horrible instances and the loss of life and property, but what if it was worse like in other nations?

"other nations", you mean nations not in the west?
Because truth be told... these kinds of things are most common in the US when only talking about the western world.


What if it were to happen, say for example, if more churches were burned, causing people to have their services performed in secret and later the preachers were being threatened like what happened to this one preacher in India?

Even more killings then already take place in the US, I guess.

What if this were to happen in for example, the Bible Belt in the US?

If anything like that were to happen in the US, I'ld actually consider it more likely that the ones in the bible belt would be the ones doing the persecuting....

I ask this because as an American, I personally believe that what I as a Christian would go through here is nothing like what other believers for instance, would go through in other nations.

I'ld agree with you on that. Probably for different reasons, though.

How should an American who is for an example a professed Christian deal with the more widespread persecution? What would or should any of us do? Do you believe that you would stand strong or would you be afraid?

I have no idea. I guess I'ld know it if I face it.

Not that I'm an american, but I'm guessing it's a universal question. What would YOU do if you belong to a group that suffers from persecution.

I honestly can't say. It would depend on so many factors...
 
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How do you imagine that would happen and why would the dominant religion be the he one in the cross hairs if it did?

It happens when the dominant religion has closely tied itself into the government. Happened in France.
 
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