Two different Gospels?

LittleLambofJesus said:

You gotta remember, he speaks in Frogonese

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kkfjtiiemvdmmfns...bm,,duurkgitolsm!

holo said:

The new covenant is clearly stated to be between God and Israel. In 1 Cor 11 you apparently assume he's talking to gentiles, but in 1 Cor 10 it's clear he's talking to Israelites (For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.)

I admit you have a point in bringing up 2 Cor 3:6, but it'll take more than one verse to establish a doctrine

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wrong! in chapter 11, was he not adressing the whole church?

heheheh..besides, there were mostly gentiles in Corinth, let me know if u want proof.


11:17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.





33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for[k] one another—

25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

holo said:

How could Jesus preach the same gospel as Paul when it was still a secret?

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Who gave them the doctrine that freed from sin, that being grace, before Paul? u never answered the frog on that.


6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19

holo said:

A new high priest would mean we had an old one, which gentiles never had.

Christ was the Messiah to Israel AND the saviour of gentiles.

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mel was not of jewish lineage.

Heb 7:6 But this man who does not have his descent from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

Originally Posted by holo A new high priest would mean we had an old one, which gentiles never had.

Christ was the Messiah to Israel AND the saviour of gentiles.

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Frogster said:

mel was not of jewish lineage.

Heb 7:6 But this man who does not have his descent from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

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I don't think the Jews of today relate Mel to Jesus....Abrahm was also a "Gentile", not a Jew.
I could be wrong tho

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."
This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek. And the connection between Jesus Christ and Melchizedek

In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor. There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives. We learn only that he was king of Salem and priest of the Most High God. During the time of Abraham there were no large nations. Instead, there were small cities where families lived or around which a tribe of nomadic people settled. The population of these cities was probably not more than a few hundred - at most a few thousand.is worth exploring. Let's take a look at the Melchizedek Connection.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I don't think the Jews of today relate Mel to Jesus....Abrahm was also a "Gentile", not a Jew.
I could be wrong tho

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."
This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek. And the connection between Jesus Christ and Melchizedek

In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor. There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives. We learn only that he was king of Salem and priest of the Most High God. During the time of Abraham there were no large nations. Instead, there were small cities where families lived or around which a tribe of nomadic people settled. The population of these cities was probably not more than a few hundred - at most a few thousand.is worth exploring. Let's take a look at the Melchizedek Connection.

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Agreed.

Tangible said:

Ok, twice today I've seen people putting forward the idea that there are two different gospels, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. This is a new one on me.

Does anyone know the origin of this unorthodox-seeming teaching?

Anyone care to mount a scriptural defense?

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Hello, I have recently had to deal with this two gospel idea. I know where they are coming from and they seem to avoid certain clear text that show that there is only one gospel.

One of the main sections they use is in galatians 2 where we read.

"7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;"(Galatians 2:7)

here they say Peter had the gospel OF the circumcision and Paul the gospel OF the uncircumcision.

At first glance it appears to be a difference. But Paul had already rebuked the idea of another gospel in Galatians chapter 1 and he was simply saying that Peter went to the Jews and Paul primarily to the Gentiles (even though Peter did go to Gentiles as well and Paul to Jews). This simply is saying that the Jews were still struggling with the law and were in a time of reformation (Hebrews 9) they were called the circumcision showing the connection. The old covenant was fading away and ready to vanish (Hebrews 8) . This had not yet happened and they were in transition and reformation (Hebrews 9:8-10). The Jews did not come away from these things for a while. Jesus even told then that he had many things to say and to judge of them but they could not bear it when he spoke so he promised the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.

But the actual gospel that Paul and Peter preached was the same. Even if the Jewish believers were still struggling with the law and the old covenant and in a time of reformation. We see many Jewish believers under the law and struggling with it in Acts 21 when Paul went to them in Jerusalem and they were all zealous of the law and the customs and they were still going into the temple and offering sacrifices etc. This continued I believe until 70 Ad when the temple was destroyed etc and their whole world was changed.

But they also say that Peter did not preach the gospel (1 Cor 15:1-5) as Paul did and that Paul was the grace preacher to the Gentiles. But this can easily be refuted and shown that Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ for sin as Paul did. Here are some examples that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel

Here is the actual gospel of salvation first,

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:"(1 Cor 15:1-5 KJV)

and if you read a bit further down you will see,

"7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed."(1 Cor 15:7-11)

Paul is saying whether he preached that gospel or the other apostles preached that gospel, they believed. This shows they both preached the same gospel.

There is another clear verse that shows the gospel is the same for both Jew and Gentile and it is this one,

"16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." ( Romans 1:16 KJV)

The same gospel for both.

We also read in Acts 15 that peter remind the brothers of a time when he preached to the gentiles and they got saved, consider his words,

"7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."(Acts 15:7-11 KJV)

How much clearer can it be. He was arguing against the jewish law keepers and circumcision group.

We also see that Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ for sin in many places,

"23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it....36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ....38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."(Acts 2:23,24,36,38 KJV)

Clearly as we have seen here, Peter preached that they by wicked sinful hands killed Christ (the messiah) and that God raised him from the dead and that they need to repent of their sins and believe in Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

We also read this again in Chapter 3,

"15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord....26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."(Acts 3:15-19,26 KJV).

We also see this in Acts 4, again we see that Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins.

"10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."(Acts 4:10 KJV)

and Acts 5,

"30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."(Acts 5:30,31 KJV)

Again we see that Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins. And we read Peter saying,

"24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." (1 Peter 2:24,25 KJV)

I think that gives some clear evidence that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel. Yes we can agree that the jews and gentiles were having different issues. The Jews were still coming out of the old law and covenant and the gentiles did not need to be brought under that again and then taken out of it. We see some of these things in Hebrews,

"13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13 KJV)

At the time this was written many years after Christ death the old covenant had not fully vanished away, even though Christ work on the cross finished it and brought forth the New Covenant.

and we also read.

"8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."(Hebrews 9:8-10 KJV)

Here is a few verses to show they were struggling with the law, (Jewish believers that is,

"17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them."(Acts 21:17-26 KJV)