Why Did God Hate Esau?

RDKirk

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Did either Jacob or Esau possess faith when God determined to love Jacob and hate Esau? I think not. Paul's point is that it is all about God's sovereign decision.

I didn't say that God chose Jacob as a matter of faith. I said: "...to provide Paul with an example by which to point out that it's about about faith, not about earning God's favor."

Yes, it's by God's decision, Paul's use of the example being that God's decision was not based on the actions of either Jacob or Esau.

My point was that the entire incident was done solely for the sake of providing Paul that example for the preaching of the Gospel.
 
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Tom 1

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Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

1) Why did God hate Esau?

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?


1) The clue is in Genesis 25:34 - Esau despised his birthright

2) Esau, as the oldest son, should have got his father’s blessing. His younger brother Jacob got it instead. To try and explain what that means would take up too much space.

As per the previous posts, the meaning of ‘hate’ here is important and not so straightforward. It’s about a comparison of actions taken by God in relation to actions taken by men.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I didn't say that God chose Jacob as a matter of faith. I said: "...to provide Paul with an example by which to point out that it's about about faith, not about earning God's favor."

Yes, it's by God's decision, Paul's use of the example being that God's decision was not based on the actions of either Jacob or Esau.

My point was that the entire incident was done solely for the sake of providing Paul that example for the preaching of the Gospel.

Thanks for your clarification. I entirely agree with you.
 
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SolomonVII

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While all this is true, God nevertheless hated Esau from the moment he was conceived. Esau, at birth, had done nothing to merit God's contempt. All of these things came later.

That said, was Jacob more righteous than Esau? He, whose very name means deceiver, proved himself to be a liar and deceiver. He cheated Esau from his birthright and the blessing which rightly belonged to Esau. He deceived his father-in-law. What made him worthy of God's love?
Both were deeply flawed. All the heroes and anti-heroes in the Jewish Bible are deeply, deeply flawed.
I don't know that it is completely random to discern who God loves and who he hates, but God's choices are not at all transparent to us.
When it comes to faith, no one had the faith of Abraham, who would have even sacrificed Isaac that day. Yet is it Israel that God ultimately chose for the name for his people.
It might be that Jacob's flaws were more to God's liking that the blind, unquestioning faith of Abraham. Jacob was passionate, he knew what he wanted, and he would fight even the Angel of God himself to get what he wanted.
God is very passionate himself, angry, jealous, zealously, madly in love with his bride, and maybe in Jacob, he found somebody that he could work with, and that was up for the challenge of relating to God just as God is.
There is nothing passive about God, or Jacob or Esau, for that matter. For each of them, their nature is what it is.
But Jacob had something about him that God admired enough to give his name to his people.
God's choices may be arbitrary, and not at all transparent. They are not about karmic wheels of justice and rewarding the good, and punishing the bad.
But there probably is some kind of intelligence in who he picks for his blessing, and who he leaves in the lurch.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Both were deeply flawed. All the heroes and anti-heroes in the Jewish Bible are deeply, deeply flawed.
I don't know that it is completely random to discern who God loves and who he hates, but God's choices are not at all transparent to us.
When it comes to faith, no one had the faith of Abraham, who would have even sacrificed Isaac that day. Yet is it Israel that God ultimately chose for the name for his people.
It might be that Jacob's flaws were more to God's liking that the blind, unquestioning faith of Abraham. Jacob was passionate, he knew what he wanted, and he would fight even the Angel of God himself to get what he wanted.
God is very passionate himself, angry, jealous, zealously, madly in love with his bride, and maybe in Jacob, he found somebody that he could work with, and that was up for the challenge of relating to God just as God is.
There is nothing passive about God, or Jacob or Esau, for that matter. For each of them, their nature is what it is.
But Jacob had something about him that God admired enough to give his name to his people.
God's choices may be arbitrary, and not at all transparent. They are not about karmic wheels of justice and rewarding the good, and punishing the bad.
But there probably is some kind of intelligence in who he picks for his blessing, and who he leaves in the lurch.

Thank you for the excellent reply. There are many profound mysteries about God which I cannot grasp and I trust that in eternity we will have sufficient understanding to know or to not to worry.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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1) The clue is in Genesis 25:34 - Esau despised his birthright

2) Esau, as the oldest son, should have got his father’s blessing. His younger brother Jacob got it instead. To try and explain what that means would take up too much space.

As per the previous posts, the meaning of ‘hate’ here is important and not so straightforward. It’s about a comparison of actions taken by God in relation to actions taken by men.

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— (Romans 9:11)
 
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Tom 1

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though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— (Romans 9:11)

Yes, the question is do you (or anyone else) believe that God determines outcomes on the basis of foreknowledge, or on some other basis. The whole narrative of Isaac, Jacob, Rebekah and Esau suggests that, while all are sinners, Esau takes himself out of the running of the patriarchal line by despising his part in it, treating it as worthless. The verse you quoted could be taken to mean that that is irrelevant, but personally that seems to be a rather blunted interpretation, which doesn't take into account much of the history of how God chooses to interact with people.
 
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pilgrimage

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Malachi 1:2-3 “’I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' ‘Was not Esau Jacob's brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’

The line of inheritance was drawn at Jacob whose name became Israel, God's chosen nation. From Abraham, (past Ishmael who's according to law) the blessing went to Isaac and by blessing to Jacob.(past Esau) 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
And according to the grace of God that isn't given to the profane. 16 Lest there be any immoral, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
 
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BobRyan

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Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

1) Why did God hate Esau?

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?

More Bible please --

Genesis does not say God hated Esau... Malachi 1:3 does when speaking of EDOM the pagan nation that the descendants of Esau melted down to become.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Yes, the question is do you (or anyone else) believe that God determines outcomes on the basis of foreknowledge, or on some other basis. The whole narrative of Isaac, Jacob, Rebekah and Esau suggests that, while all are sinners, Esau takes himself out of the running of the patriarchal line by despising his part in it, treating it as worthless. The verse you quoted could be taken to mean that that is irrelevant, but personally that seems to be a rather blunted interpretation, which doesn't take into account much of the history of how God chooses to interact with people.

I would not agree with your definition of foreknowledge, and according to Romans 9:11, it's irrelevant. "before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad. . ." (Romans 9:11)
 
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