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Featured Why Did God Hate Esau?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by jimmyjimmy, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

    I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

    1) Why did God hate Esau?

    2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  2. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Short Timer Here!

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    He didn't "hate" Esau, that is just how it appears in English. The underlying word is used as an idiomatic phrase... meaning in this case, "I love Jacob more than Esau." We see this again when Leah is said to be hated. She wasn't "hated" as we use the word, he loved her, slept with her, fathered children with her... he just loved Rachel more.

    It is a Hebrew idiom not used in this fashion today so we don't recognize it as an idiom.
     
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  3. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    Would you care to answer the two questions posed?
     
  4. THE W

    THE W BORN APRIL 29TH 2012

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    the term "hate" can also mean to forsake or to neglect.

    esau's inheritance was forsaken by God in malachi 1:3

    to the questions:

    it was God's sovereign choice to do so as He stated earlier in the old testament that He will have mercy on whom He chooses(exodus 33:19)

    see malachi 1:3
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  5. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    God had less favor for Esau/Edomites for God foreknew that Jacob/Israel would be the better choice to bring the Messiah into the world thru them, Genesis 25:23
     
  6. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Paul is making the point that there is no human-discernible reason why God did not choose Esau. That is Paul's entire point: God's choice had nothing whatsoever to do with anything either Esau or Jacob had done and no rationale that any human can comprehend.

    God chose as He chose for His own reasons.
     
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  7. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    I think for the first question, it goes to the randomness in life that is our existential experience of it. God sends rain on both the good and the wicked is one biblical reference to this apparent randonmness. The Biblical moral universe is not based in Karma, where for every good action there is a blessing and for every evil deed there is a curse. Heaven itself is unearned. The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Lord. There is an arbitrariness and even an unfairness to life that often has very little to do with merit. God not looking with favor upon Esau, in comparison to Jacob does not speak to the goodness or merit or either of them.

    Now as for the consequences of that state of affairs, that is very much up to Esau. God delivered the exact same message to Cain when he favored the sacrifice of Abel over Cain.

    5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

    7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

    8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

    It could have ended very badly for Esau, and for Jacob too for that matter, just as it had ended badly for Cain, and for Abel.

    Jacob for his part was a little more forward thinking that Abel had been. He anticipated Esau's murderous intent, and gave his love and honor to the one who God had hated.

    In the end it turned out quite well for the both of them.

    I guess the moral of that story might be that even if God hates our brother, it doesn't mean that we should. We are our brother's keeper, and it is within our power to make things right.
     
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  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Or if it seems to us that God hates our brother....
     
  9. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Every time God SAVES a person in our family and does not save the others....
    God has shown His LOVE to that one person, and HATED the others.
    For He will have mercy on who He chooses.

    BTW... in the New Testament the term "brother" or "brethren" typically represents
    the saved "wheat/sheep" in the Kingdom... but NOT the unsaved "tares/goats" who
    claim to be Christian. It is important to remember the "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth
    contains BOTH saved "wheat" (brothers) and unsaved "tares" (children of Satan).


    .
     
  10. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Every time God SAVES a person in our family and does not save the others....
    God has shown His LOVE to that one person, and HATED the others.
    For He will have mercy on who He chooses.

    BTW... in the New Testament the term "brother" or "brethren" typically represents
    the saved "wheat/sheep" in the Kingdom... but NOT the unsaved "tares/goats" who
    claim to be Christian. It is important to remember the "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth
    contains BOTH saved "wheat" (brothers) and unsaved "tares" (children of Satan).

    Children of Satan are NOT our "brothers".
     
  11. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    As I said, "Or if it seems to us that God hates our brother...."

    Because--as the parable of the wheat and the tares is intended to point out, you and I don't know which is which, even by appearances, thus don't have the knowledge to deal with it. The instruction of the parable is: Leave the matter alone.
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    One reason may be this:

    … Esau said in his heart, "The days of mourning for my father are at hand. Then I will kill my brother Jacob.
    Gen. 27:41
     
  13. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    How about the explanation provided right in the text?

    Romans 9:11

    though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— (ESV)
     
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  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Why in truth does YHWH hate people today who are perverse in heart ?
     
  15. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Is it your contention that Esau is a child of the devil?
     
  16. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    In a sense.
    That the Bible speaks to our perceived experience is enough.
    But if political correctness has so tainted the meaning of the word "hate" so that we are incapable of seeing God as anything other than an ogre for hating Esau as the Bible says, then your qualification is probably necessary to dispel that idea.
    Or the ideas of those who think that Esau must be a devil himself if God hates him, for that matter.
     
  17. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Except...
    as you already know... that position does not harmonize with ALL RELATED PASSAGES
    so we already know that it is only partial-truth. I have read some of your comments before
    so I know you already realize that you cannot have Biblical Truth unless/until your doctrine
    harmonizes with ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES.

    I assume you are aware of passages that

    (a) teach we can tell the difference between the "wheat and tares" by looking at their "fruit"...
    which includes not just their behaviors, but the also the "fruit" of the doctrines.
    Heresies are the "fruit" of immature "wheat" or of being an unsaved "tare".
    Immature "wheat" repent when reproved... unsaved "tares" do not.

    (b) we COMMANDED are to identify these "tares" by their "fruit" and
    to REFUTE the "leaven" of these "false prophets" with Scriptures
    (as I am doing now... just ask if you need chapter/verse) and

    (c) we are COMMANDED to SEPARATE from these "tares" (false Christians)
    and NOT to allow them to be part of our churches.

    Now we have to harmonize ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES before we can pretend to
    understand any of them. And we find that easy to do when we realize the command
    [in Matthew 13] was to reveal to us that it was always PART of the Gospel that the
    Christian Kingdom would contain both "wheat and tares" until the Final Harvest.
    In fact, read Revelation chapters 2 and 3 to see the extent of this corruption
    in the churches before the end of the first century.

    However it was also a COMMAND that we (Saints) must identify who (in our church)
    are "tares" and we must SEPARATE from them (exclude them from our church)
    if they do not repent if their rotten "fruit" (either behaviors or doctrines).

    I have read your comments before... I know you realize that our (a) heresy is a FORM
    of showing the "fruit" of a tare and (b) harmony of Scripture must include ALL RELATED
    passages...

    So.... how do you harmonize the Lord's Words to NOT separate the "wheat and tares"
    with the Lord's COMMAND to identify those "tares" and to EXCLUDE them from our
    churches?

    Except by understanding that it was always PART of the Christian Gospel to understand
    the "Kingdom" consists of BOTH unsaved "tares" and saved "wheat". That these "tares"
    would infiltrate the churches and the "leaven" of their false doctrines would corrupt the
    churches - and eventually the "Kingdom". However, at the same time all the real Saints
    are COMMANDED to (a) identify these unsaved "tares" and (b) refute their false doctrines
    and (c) to exclude them from our churches.


    Jim
     
  18. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    No...
    It is the BIBLE that teaches that all men are either saved (children of God)
    or unsaved (children of Satan).

    I am just repeating what the BIBLE says.

    Jim
     
  19. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    I was just wondering how it related to my post in any way, that's all.
     
  20. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    I was responding to what you wrote in post #15... which was:
    Is it your contention that Esau is a child of the devil?


    Therefore, I think my response was exactly on point:
    It is the BIBLE that teaches that all men are either saved (children of God)
    or unsaved (children of Satan).

    I am just repeating what the BIBLE says
    .

    Jim
     
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