child bride predation v. mary's perpetual virginity

There is no misinterpretation, only your interpretation nothing more

Tutorman said:

There is no misinterpretation, only your interpretation nothing more

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I have no doubt you believe that.

Tutorman said:

Actually The Word of God has more authority than Scripture. The Word of God is Christ not a book, Scriptures are a word of God only. BTW God put it into Scripture that the Church is much more important than Scripture, God says that "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Timothy 3:15.

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The phrase “word of God” means more than the printed words on a page.
Jesus showed a link between the written Word of God and Himself, in that He is the subject of the written Word.........
Jn. 5:39
“You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me”.

God is a communicator and has been speaking into the human realm since the beginning. He speaks through His creation seen in Psalm 19:1.

He spoke through the prophets in Hosea 12:10 and Hebrews 1:1.

He speaks through the Holy Spirit in Jn. 16:13 and Acts 16:6.

He speaks through Scripture as seen in Hebrews 4:12,
and through the Person of His Son, Jesus Christ according to Jn. 14:9.

We can learn to know God better by seeking to hear Him in every way that He speaks.

redleghunter said:

How did we get to 6 year olds?

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From "Open Heart".

The whole thing is a smoke screen and she has gone from a 12 year old to a teenager to a 16 year old and some how a 6 year old got tossed in.

NONE of it means anything as the one in controle was God Himself.

Tutorman said:

I don't want to fight about Scripture. I am more interested in the OP Discussion and you have made great points to the OP.

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Ok back to the OP subject....what was that again?

Oh yeah the child bride claims.

I guess all I have to say is the OP is applying eisegesis to the matter. It is fact people married young in olden times and was the norm until the late 19th century. I think that has been established.

Plus the pairing of Mary with Joseph was God's design and we should take clear notice of this.

redleghunter said:

Taking out the old man getting the child bride mentality we have today (like in some Muslim nations), an older teen male marrying a younger teen female was the norm. I would gather a woman in that era who was 20 was considered an old maiden. If we go back to the time of Jacob, that is probably why he got Leah first and snookered into that marriage.

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I'm not so sure about that. Considering how the man's age at first child seems to have been normalized at just over 30 in Genesis, I suspect that men were married in their twenties or right at 30. There is no indication that any of the patriarchs in the OT were merely teens when they married, but were already well seasoned in their roles.

I've already said that they'd stepped into adulthood in their teens, but they also had to provide a worthwhile dowry (there is probably a fundamental moral failure in any culture that requires the bride's family to provide the dowry).

When might have Jacob left his father's house? He left earlier than planned, but was probably in his late teens at the earliest...and was not shocked to have to work 7 years to marry his chosen bride.

RDKirk said:

Considering how the man's age at first child seems to have been normalized at just over 30 in Genesis, I suspect that men were married in their twenties or right at 30. There is no indication that any of the patriarchs in the OT were merely teens when they married, but were already well seasoned in their roles

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They did live a lot longer.

redleghunter said:

They did live a lot longer.

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But they explicitly stated first-child ages of 29 to 32--and that is repeated with precise numbers multiple times. Nowhere is there the slightest suggestion that number ever changed. Rather, the level of accomplishment of the men also suggests late 20s to 30s.

What about the Prodigal Son and his brother? Apparently not married at all. Jesus was not married, and that's not raised as an issue in scripture.

Tutorman said:

God says that "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Timothy 3:15.

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The ESV has an accurate translation of the Greek: "... the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth."

Interesting scriptural facts:

There are two different genealogies of Jesus (there are multiple theories as to why: one theory is that one genealogy is based on Mary’s line and the other based on Joseph’s line...check out theory one and three here...also note that Heli is a derivative of Eliakim or Joachim.)

Joseph is mentioned only in the early years of Jesus’ life and then he suddenly is gone.

None of Jesus’ brothers or sisters took care of Mary after He died. He had to ask John to look after her and take her as his mother. This is very strange in Jewish culture for children - especially male children - to not take care of a widowed mother, especially considering that James was a someone who actually wrote scripture. It’s hard to imagine him shirking his duty.

These are just some interesting side notes about Joseph and Mary. They are circumstantial - but provide some insight into the possible scenarios.

All4Christ said:

Interesting scriptural facts:

There are two different genealogies of Jesus (there are multiple theories as to why: one theory is that one genealogy is based on Mary’s line and the other based on Joseph’s line...check out theory one and three here...also note that Heli is a derivative of Eliakim or Joachim.)

Joseph is mentioned only in the early years of Jesus’ life and then he suddenly is gone.

None of Jesus’ brothers or sisters took care of Mary after He died. He had to ask John to look after her and take her as his mother. This is very strange in Jewish culture for children - especially male children - to not take care of a widowed mother, especially considering that James was a someone who actually wrote scripture. It’s hard to imagine him shirking his duty.

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One of the reasons I think Mary is not James' birth mother, and that Joseph married her late in his life. Maybe James would have taken her in--I'm sure he would have, after finally being snagged by the Holy Spirit.

But if Jesus was Mary's only birth son, it was His responsibility to explicitly name someone to take care of her.

Open Heart said:

If there is no line, there is nothing to protect six year olds. Muhammed married an eight year old. Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) "made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old." (Bullough, Vern. "Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society". faqs.org. Internet FAQ Archives. Archived from the original on 28 September 2008. Retrieved 25 August 2015.) Again, as I stated earlier, children were simply seen as small adults. There was no concept in previous ages of developmental stages.

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The marriage of teen females before reaching full reproductive maturity was even in ancient times odd and out of societal norm. Such even then would be not only inappropriate but an abomination.

Open Heart said:

1. You have no idea the evil in men's hearts. There are people today without conscience who sell their young children to pedophiles for money.
2. When you are starving, you will do almost anything to survive. The money you get from the dowry will feed the family, and you tell yourself that the life of the child will be better than she is having now.

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I was noting societal norms of the times. Not extreme conditions. We know in ancient times cities under siege starved and cannibalism was rampant. Some ate their own children. But that was not the societal norm.