child bride predation v. mary's perpetual virginity

Open Heart

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Why?? Because of the "United Nations"??? Because of "Local Morals"?? My wife (in Massachusetts was 19 in '65 when we got married) and her Aunt Frances (in Mobile Alabama) was married at 14, and already had three kids in '65, She's STILL married to him.
Doesn't make it right. It just means that good came out of bad.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Do you call the Mother of our Lord Blessed?

Of course!! The Bible indicates that she was, and one can only agree. Protestants give her PROPER honor for her REAL obedience to God's call.

Are you a Christian?

Yup - 54 years now.

Do you believe the Bible? I mean, you sound bitter..
.

I don't care for BAD theology, whenever I run into it, and the Catholic "Blessed Virgin" fantasy is destructive to Biblical Christianity. Mary was a normal , and very Obedient Jewish Gal, who was called to perform a VERY BLESSED Ministry through the power of the Holy Spirit. ANd she carried it out with her husband's help beautifully. But when the Catholic Church DEMANDS that Mary and Joseph NEVER be married, and NEVER raise their own family, AND in fact set her up as "Council" to Jesus Himself (apparently so that He knows how to answer our petitions) That's a BLASPHEMY against His perfect knowledge, and LOVE for us.

Simple as that.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Were you in Alabama pre-Civil Rights Movement?
Do you remember what it was like there?

Arsenios
Nope - I grew up in Massachusetts, and was never in alabama until 1967, since my wife's father's family lives in Mobile.
 
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Arsenios

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Nope - I grew up in Massachusetts, and was never in alabama until 1967, since my wife's father's family lives in Mobile.
I did AIT in Anniston, ALA in '63...

Lord have Mercy...

Yet the black Southern Baptist Churches were producing Saints then...
These days, with no persecutions, not nearly as much... If at all...

Persecutions make Saints, until they all die, or the persecutions stop...
The Christians of the Middle East are persecuted...
And they produce Saints...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Of course!! The Bible indicates that she was, and one can only agree. Protestants give her PROPER honor for her REAL obedience to God's call.

So then since She is the Blessed Virgin Mother of our Lord and God, why not call her the Blessed Virgin?

Yup - 54 years now.

God bless you, Brother...

I don't care for BAD theology, whenever I run into it

Bitterness is bad theology! Leastwise it is in my old tattered Book...

, and the Catholic "Blessed Virgin" fantasy is destructive to Biblical Christianity.

The Latin Catholics somewhat deify Her, that is true... Regarding Her conception as somehow God-made to exempt Her from Adam's Original Sin... And if you are a product of the Reformation, then we are talking about your Mother Church... Errors are costly...

Mary was a normal , and very Obedient Jewish Gal,

Can I hold you to that statement? I mean, where in the Bible is she ever described as normal and very obedient? And where is she ever called a Jewish Gal? This is local Americana-speak, is it not? She is the only woman in the history of the planet and the cosmos for that matter who ever conceived without seed, and who birthed God into flesh in that Conception, and you call her a "Normal Jewish Gal"??? There is NOTHING normal about that...

who was called to perform a VERY BLESSED Ministry through the power of the Holy Spirit. AND she carried it out with her husband's help beautifully.

She Birthed the New Adam... And in this was a great mission of camoflage and concealment of Who Christ IS... He was concealed as a brother among brothers, with Mary as His mother, and Joseph as His father...

But when the Catholic Church DEMANDS that Mary and Joseph NEVER be married, and NEVER raise their own family, AND in fact set her up as "Council" to Jesus Himself (apparently so that He knows how to answer our petitions) That's a BLASPHEMY against His perfect knowledge, and LOVE for us.

Simple as that.

The Latin Church has gone off the rails with their devotion to her, you are right, but my Brother, I would encourage you to consider that their zeal is blessed, even if not entirely accurrate... I mean, how can any Christian not absolutely LOVE the Mother of our Lord? The problem they have is that in their going too far as they did, your response is to call her a normal Jewish Gal... She is in fact anything but...

I mean, c'mon - Do you call Father Abraham a nice very obedient Jewish boy? And Fr. Abraham cannot hold a candle to Her having Christ physically in her body and birthing Him into His Own creation... To call her a normal Jewish Gal denigrates the mission She took upon herself from birth - eg To PREPARE Herself for the great work she would do when she became a woman...

Do you know what Jesus called Her?
And what Eve was called in the Garden?

The Mysteries here run deep, my Brother...
These are not common Jewish folk...

I mean, was Churchill a normal English boy??
Or Mallory or Shackelton?

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios
 
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Major1

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Of course!! The Bible indicates that she was, and one can only agree. Protestants give her PROPER honor for her REAL obedience to God's call.



Yup - 54 years now.

.

I don't care for BAD theology, whenever I run into it, and the Catholic "Blessed Virgin" fantasy is destructive to Biblical Christianity. Mary was a normal , and very Obedient Jewish Gal, who was called to perform a VERY BLESSED Ministry through the power of the Holy Spirit. ANd she carried it out with her husband's help beautifully. But when the Catholic Church DEMANDS that Mary and Joseph NEVER be married, and NEVER raise their own family, AND in fact set her up as "Council" to Jesus Himself (apparently so that He knows how to answer our petitions) That's a BLASPHEMY against His perfect knowledge, and LOVE for us.

Simple as that.

Agreed.......it is just that simple!
 
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SolomonVII

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The Latin Church has gone off the rails with their devotion to her, you are right,


Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios
Pertaining to the issue that elicited your response at that very moment, which was Mary and Joseph being married and raising a family, like "normal" families would do, how do EO differ from RC on this matter.
Protestants assume that being married and raising a family include, well, bedroom duties, of the sort that the procreative and a unitive aspects of marriage include.

Are you, as an EO, not "off the rails" in this kind of devotion to her too?
 
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Arsenios

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Pertaining to the issue that elicited your response at that very moment, which was Mary and Joseph being married and raising a family, like "normal" families would do, how do EO differ from RC on this matter.
Protestants assume that being married and raising a family include, well, bedroom duties, of the sort that the procreative and a unitive aspects of marriage include.

I do not know if the teaching exists in the Latin Church commonly, that one central feature of this arrangement was concealment... Christ had to be hidden... It started out more directly with the goodness of Joseph in permitting the Blessed Virgin to live with him as his wife, for he was a widower with his own family to attend, and a wife, even one around the same age as his own children, would be seen as normal... No one would have to know that the reason for the marriage was for the sake of the preservation of the Virgin from marital relations... Coming into the age of procreation, she could no longer live in the Temple as she had done...

Then the twist, for she shows up pregnant... And Joseph wants to just quietly and decently set her aside... But no, that won't work, as the Angel tells him in a dream... So he takes her as his wife and raises the Child as his own... Continuing the deception... And fleeing to Egypt... To protect the Child from harm...

Then years later returning up from down in Egypt... From which Moses began, you see... And the deception continued as Jesus grew to adulthood, and was so successful that when He came to His home town, He could do very few miracles, because they all knew him as Joseph's kid, and "Nice of ya t'visit us again, kid..." The whole of it was for the sake of a not unsuccessful deception to enable the Incarnation of the Logos INTO His Own creation without Him getting destroyed before completing His Purpose here... "It is finished..." He said on the Cross... Mission accomplished... Now can Jesus die...

Are you, as an EO, not "off the rails" in this kind of devotion to her too?

I would hope so - Heck, I would like to think so... But I am a faithless old salty-dog sail-boat loving and fumbling excuse of a human being, so that...

But wait! You asked me as an Orthodox Christian!

We are not dogmatically off the rails, as we understand the Latins to be, for they have deified Mary in a manner that takes Her deification, toward which we all aspire, to be of no effect for us... Because, you see, in your view, she was immaculately conceived, and not even one of us was so conceived... So that she gave to Christ an immaculately conceived body, and not a normally conceived one, if so, His healing only applies to immaculately conceived human beings, and cannot apply to me... "For in sins did my mother bear me..."

And by so understanding her, you see, you forsake the basis of Her Life that prepared her, by the time of the onset of her child-bearing years, for the bearing of Christ in Her Virgin Womb... She DID prepare for that event, you see... And from Her Christ took our fallen and Death-laden humanity unto Himself and by His Life as the Son of Man and God, He healed our humanity in His Own Flesh...

She was a uniquely extraordinary human being, you see, just like you and me, but utterly beyond us as a person, fully draped in the Fall of Adam in which we are all born, yet by Her greatness of person keeping herself from impurity, being prepared in this manner to enter into the Temple and finding Her Home there at less than 4 years of age...

Your confession has as dogma that She did this because of Her Immaculate Conception, and we say She did so because of Her extraordinary deeds... You see, we can also do extraordinary deeds, and sometimes do so... Thereby walking somewhat as She did... But no one is ever able to be immaculately conceived...

Thank you for your love for Her, however our differences in understanding Her may diverge...

Arsenios
 
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