Noah's Flood Was Definitely Local, Why?

pat34lee said:

1) Why spend a hundred years building an ark, preaching
and collecting animals to save when they could spend
six months walking to another country?

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It does not matter if you walk to another country or if you take the ferry, you still have to transport those animals and all of those seeds. Man went from being a food gather to a food producer. Wild plants and animals became domesticated. The professors at the Universities in Jerusalem call this Botney and they are experts on the ancient plants that we find in the Middle East (Arab Plate) and how those wild plants evolved into domesticated plants.

Also a lot of work and research has gone into how farming spread from the middle east to Europe. How we went from food gatherers to food producers. In some cases ancient camping sights became permanent settlements and they were turned into cities.

The point being the same point I always make, Science confirms that the Bible is 100% accurate and true. Science does not always confirm our interpretation of the Bible and our manmade traditions. New information in Science helps us to have a better understanding of our Bible.

The people in the Bible are all real people. Adam and Eve, Noah and Moses, Abraham and Jacob, David and Solomon and Bathsheba. Joseph, Mary, Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. These are all real people with real DNA that are descended from Adam and Eve in the Bible in the Garden of Eden. They use to say the proof is in the pudding but now a days they say the proof is in the DNA. Just like on your local scandal TV shows. When they say YOU'RE THE DADDY then that means your the daddy and the judge is going to make you pay the cost of raising that child.

pat34lee said:

2) Genesis 8:9-17
A local flood would make God a liar

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Not at all. If you read Jonathan Cahn's book the Paradigm then you can begin to understand how Paradigms in the Bible are exact and literal. People do not understand the Power of God and how He can use real people and their story as an example for us today.

Matthew 24 " 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.…"

Jesus shows us how the paradigm of Noah applies to current events and even future events. Cahn teaches us in his book that a paradigm can give you an exact point in time and an exact location. So we can know when and where. An example of this was the three wise men knew exactly when and where Jesus was going to be here and they were they to greet Him with gifts.

Dispensationalists believe that the church age is 2,000 years. The question is when did the church age began? When did Peter preach that sermon in the upper room on what is now called Pentecost? I think we can answer that question. In the world the end of this age will come as it did in Noah's generation. vs39 "they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man." (Pentecost is 50 days after Easter or Resurrection Sunday)

"we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." 1Thes4:17 The second coming will be "in the air" Then what they call the third coming: Zech 14 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south." Acts1:11 ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

My point is when you understand the Paradigm then you will understand why the story is written the way Moses wrote the story. The people in the world call the Bible a myth or a metaphor, but that is because they do not understand Paradigms and how Paradigms work. Even tough we do have Paradigm shifts in Science and Paradigms is very much a term used in science.

People ask how can the earth be split from the east and the west AND from the north and the south at the same time on the Mount. Today we understand earthquakes and plate tectonics and we know that is exactly what is going to happen on that day on that Mount.

Aman777 said:

Cave men never planted a crop

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They saved their seeds and in the spring they would throw those seeds into the mud. Usually in a river delta when there was flooding in the spring. There are a lot of flood stories because farming began on floodplains. In the Bible Eden was in between the Tigris Euphrates river valley. Even today this is a very beautiful area. Although the Bible says that the Cedar trees of Lebanon were even more beautiful than any plant in the garden of Eden. They have been gathering seeds and even grinding them into flour for maybe 30 or 40,000 years. They would mix some flour and water and fruit so the first pop tarts have been around a very long time. I tried to find out who invented the pie but they have been around longer than recorded history. Even clothing with color in it goes back at least 20,000 years and they find bone sewing needles artifacts along with fishing hooks up to 40,000 years ago. They could make fishing nets and they could weave baskets to carry things in.

This does not even get into how long they have been cooking food and how long they have had simple stone or volcanic rock tools. They had farming in the stone age because the first farming tools were made out of stone. Although volcanic rock is really more like glass, very sharp. In the area I live in they had flint to make their arrow heads out of. When I was growing up people were still finding flint arrowheads out in the fields were people had plowed them up.

pat34lee said:

Two major problems.

1) Why spend a hundred years building an ark, preaching
and collecting animals to save when they could spend
six months walking to another country?

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Adam did not live on the present Earth. He lived in the firmament which was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 Our firmament/Universe was not made until the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 According to History, the Ark arrived on planet Earth some 11k years ago, in man's time. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

pat34lee said:

2) Genesis 8:9-17
A local flood would make God a liar because floods happen
around the world quite regularly, killing people and animals.

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As Adam's firmament filled with water, it sank in Lake Van, Turkey releasing the 450 ft long Ark into our world. The solid firmament is STILL at the bottom of the Lake. It's empirical evidence of life BEFORE the Big Bang. As the firmament sank, it also totally destroyed Adam's Earth and every creature on it. ll Peter 3:6 Amen?

joshua 1 9 said:

In the Bible Eden was in between the Tigris Euphrates river valley.

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False, since Eden was NOT on planet Earth. It was in Adam's firmament which was totally destroyed in the flood. ll Peter 3:6

random person said:

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

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Wrong. It had to be a global flood.

Sigh... please stop!

If the Bible used cubits as measurements and we know those measurements, this is not hard to figure out!

Cubits actually vary by geographical area or race.

Hebrew (short) 17.5 inches
Egyptian 17.6 inches
Common (short) 18 inches
Babylonian (long) 19.8 inches
Hebrew (long) 20.4 inches
Egyptian (long) 20.6 inches

The cubit was a measurement from the elbow to the tip of the fingers. Now that we have a measurement we can do some math! I am going to use the longest one, so that I can represent the absolute highest the water could have been during the flood.

15 cubits x 20.6 inches gives us...

309 inches divided by 12 inches in a foot gives us... drum roll please!

25 feet 9 inches!

Last time I check 25.75 was not enough to cover any mountains (hence "hills" in Hebrew) that I am aware of. This is the biblical depth. Stop the global nonsense. Last time I checked Mt. Ararat was ~16,850 ft tall. Please give me a logical explanation as to how you derive "Global" flood given the math of the Bible?!

As an aside if the Ark was 30 cubits tall and properly proportioned how much did the ARK draft?

http://www.creationconcepts.org/resources/ARK.pdf

It appears 22 feet 6 inches... this means that the Ark was only 2-3 feet off the land at any given time. According to the Bible.

Warm regards, GBTG

Aman777... dude, I gotta say you have a very interesting perspective on the book of Genesis as a whole!

Warm regards, GBTG

joshua 1 9 said:

Not at all. If you read Jonathan Cahn's book the Paradigm then you can begin to understand how Paradigms in the Bible are exact and literal. People do not understand the Power of God and how He can use real people and their story as an example for us today.

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Sorry, I had the wrong chapter listed: It's Genesis 9, not 8.

None of what you listed can change this:

Genesis 9:15
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

After the flood dried up, he is saying there will never be
another similar flood. We know that isn't true if the flood
was localized because floods happen all the time.

The only thing that hasn't happened since is another world
killing flood. Revelation seems to agree, that the next time,
the world will be destroyed by fire.

I know people doubt the global flood because of the myths
put out by the naturalists. Look up fossils and drowning poses.
It is so common there is a name for it, but it's simply what
happens when they die by drowning.

pat34lee said:

Sorry, I had the wrong chapter listed: It's Genesis 9, not 8.

None of what you listed can change this:

Genesis 9:15
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

After the flood dried up, he is saying there will never be
another similar flood. We know that isn't true if the flood
was localized because floods happen all the time.

The only thing that hasn't happened since is another world
killing flood. Revelation seems to agree, that the next time,
the world will be destroyed by fire.

I know people doubt the global flood because of the myths
put out by the naturalists. Look up fossils and drowning poses.
It is so common there is a name for it, but it's simply what
happens when they die by drowning.

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Yes the world is cleansed with water and with fire.
Isaiah 43:2
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.

When people are on fire for God they go though a purification process to burn off what is not of God and what does not please God. Yet like the burning bush we are not consumed.

GBTG said:

Cubits actually vary by geographical area or race.

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A cubit is determined by the king who was suppose to be big in stature. That may have been an issue when David was king because he was so small.

Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.

DavidFirth said:

Wrong. It had to be a global flood.

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The global flood took place at the time of Pangea when the dinosaurs were first destroyed.

joshua 1 9 said:

The global flood took place at the time of Pangea when the dinosaurs were first destroyed.

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The global flood happened exactly as described in the Bible.

GBTG said:

Last time I check 25.75 was not enough to cover any mountains (hence "hills" in Hebrew) that I am aware of. This is the biblical depth. Stop the global nonsense. Last time I checked Mt. Ararat was ~16,850 ft tall. Please give me a logical explanation as to how you derive "Global" flood given the math of the Bible?!

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Sure. Adam's small firmament/Heaven sank in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago destroying every living creature not on the Ark. IOW, The entire FIRST Universe, Adam's world, perished or was totally and completely destroyed as Isa 24:19 and ll Peter 3:6 states. Adam's Flat Earth dissolved in the flood. Amen?

GBTG said:

Aman777... dude, I gotta say you have a very interesting perspective on the book of Genesis as a whole!

Warm regards, GBTG

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Thank you very much. It's also true Scientifically and Historically as well as Scripturally. God's Truth is the Truth in every way.

joshua 1 9 said:

The global flood took place at the time of Pangea when the dinosaurs were first destroyed.

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Not so since the FIRST Human farmer was Noah. He planted grapes in order to make wine. Animals do not make wine. Humans do.

Aman777 said:

Thank you very much. It's also true Scientifically and Historically as well as Scripturally. God's Truth is the Truth in every way.

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It’s super entertaining! Out of curiosity what reference and study materials do you use?

Aman777 said:

Not so since the FIRST Human farmer was Noah. He planted grapes in order to make wine. Animals do not make wine. Humans do.

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You can not make wine in a basket. IF you want to make wine you need a clay vessel. Clay pots have actually been around a lot longer then Noah. Also just about anything you put in a pot is going to ferment and make alcohol. The oldest man made artifacts we find are fishing hooks and sewing needles made out of bone. Before that we find some stone tools which was made from volcanic rock and was more like glass. They were sharp and could be used for skinning animals. These are the sort of artifacts we find so this is a part of what we have to work with to figure out what was going on back then.

In order for an animal to be on the Ark is is going to have to be a domesticated animal pretty much by definition. If Noah had a boat filled with wild animals that would have indeed been a wild ride and all the wild animals might have destroyed each other.

GBTG said:

It’s super entertaining! Out of curiosity what reference and study materials do you use?

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I use the King James Version of the Bible and Blue Letter Bible online. What I've discovered is that the first 34 verses of Genesis tell the entire History of God's 7 Days/Ages of Creation and ALL of the rest of the Bible "adds details" to each of the 7 Days. God has but 7 Days and the 7th Day is Eternity. God Bless you

joshua 1 9 said:

You can not make wine in a basket. IF you want to make wine you need a clay vessel. Clay pots have actually been around a lot longer then Noah.

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Amen, but they were made by the sons of God (prehistoric people) since ONLY Adam's descendants are Human. The sons of God were created and brought forth from WATER Gen 1:21 so they did NOT descend from Adam.

joshua 1 9 said:

The oldest man made artifacts we find are fishing hooks and sewing needles made out of bone. Before that we find some stone tools which was made from volcanic rock and was more like glass. They were sharp and could be used for skinning animals. These are the sort of artifacts we find so this is a part of what we have to work with to figure out what was going on back then.

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Sure, and they were made by our sons of God ancestors, who were the most intelligent beings of those who descended from water. Humans have the superior intelligence of God. Genesis 3:22 After the Ark arrived on our Earth, Humans (Noah's descendants) married some of these prehistoric people and like Cain on the first Earth, had children with them. Gen 6:4

joshua 1 9 said:

In order for an animal to be on the Ark is is going to have to be a domesticated animal pretty much by definition. If Noah had a boat filled with wild animals that would have indeed been a wild ride and all the wild animals might have destroyed each other.

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True, but our Earth was filled with living creatures (Their kind) when the Ark arrived. The unique creatures of the first Earth, made by the Hands of Jesus/Lord God, (His kind) which Science calls "common ancestors" were tame. Gen 7:9 That is WHY we find the bones of creatures for Millions of years before the Ark arrived 11k years ago, bringing the descendants of Adam (Humans) to this planet of the common ancestor of Apes. History AGREES. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE God Bless you