6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

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Steve Petersen

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Deuteronomy 14:23 And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
 
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Deuteronomy 14:23 And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

And if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).
 
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Steve Petersen

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And if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).

Because Israel had not yet taken the land. The tithe mentioned in Deut 14 was of the land. It was in the context of bringing that tithe to God at the festival time that God permitted them wine and strong drink. While they were in the wilderness, how would they have been able to make wine? This is why Deut 29 says that they had not drunk wine.
 
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SeventyOne

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So a person is not a murderer if they only murder on rare occasions?

What if people lie about the gospel, saying His work was so inadequate that a few sins on our part could unravel the whole thing? Would just that one lie make them a liar heading to hell?
 
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I'm_Sorry

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Has Acts 2:13 been addressed in this thread?

NIV
13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”

KJV
13
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Translation of wine?
 
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Neogaia777

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And if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).
Deuteronomy 14:23 And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Aren't those addressed to certain (kinds?) of individuals, reserved for a special purpose, and not everybody...?
 
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Anguspure

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And if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).
3 important rules in hermenuetics: context, context and context.
 
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Neogaia777

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Aren't those addressed to certain (kinds?) of individuals, reserved for a special purpose, and not everybody...?
Wasn't it part of the Nazarite vow, for example, (if I'm remembering correctly, but, I could be wrong also) not to drink strong wine or drink or any alcohol basically...?

It was said or John the Baptist also, wasn't it...? That he would drink no strong wine or drink...?

God Bless!
 
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Strong in Him

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Yes, this part is true. Jesus made only grape juice as a part of his miracle and He drank only grape juice.

That is what you believe, but that is what the majority of people in this thread are disputing.

I believe this because Jesus perfect in everything He did.

Absolutely true.
Yet drinking alcoholic wine would not have changed that. It seems that Jesus' critics accused him of being a glutton and a drunkard, because he ate with tax collectors and sinners. If he'd drunk innocent grape juice, how would they have been able to say this?
Jesus was conceived by, and filled with, the Holy Spirit. One of the fruit of the Spirit is self control - as with everything else, Jesus had perfect self control.

Jesus was not about self indulgence of physical things but He was about denial of these things out of a love for God and others.

That doesn't mean that he didn't drink wine. He often ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners. It's very likely that wine was involved, as it was at Passover, and the Last Supper.

Jesus drank unfermented wine because it was an innocent drink. This drink represented His blood that would be shed for us for the New Testament. Fermentation is the process of yeast eating the sugar in the grapes. Yeast is a "type" or "symbol" of sin in the Bible. So it would be impossible for Christ's blood to represent sin because Scripture is clear that He was without sin.

Of course he was without sin, but wine is not sinful. It is drinking wine to excess; over consumption, that is unwise, and which can lead to fights, burglaries and drunk driving.
Drinking alcoholic wine would not have made Jesus sinful - like I said, he had perfect self control.

Yeast is not always a symbol of sin in the Bible.
Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is like yeast that is worked into a batch of dough, Matthew 13:33. Was he comparing the Kingdom of God to sin? Of course not.
 
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Strong in Him

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Well, I do not believe drinking strong alcoholic beverages (moderately with a meal) is a sin for a New Testament saint. However, this would have been a sin for the Old Testament saint, though;

Even if that were true, and I don't believe it is; what's the problem?
Jesus wasn't an OT saint and your OP is about how he didn't turn water into alcoholic wine because this would have been sinful. You are now conceding that people from the NT onwards can enjoy a glass of wine.

I believe there are 3 types of wines mentioned in the Bible.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine);

Maybe, maybe not; that's your belief.
But it may also have been the case that Jesus drank alcoholic wine. Yet he did not sin, so wine is not sinful. As you have just said, Christians may drink wine with a meal.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Yes, represents, not literally is.
Jesus was a man and had real blood in his body; not wine.

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Paul told Timothy to stop drinking ONLY water, but to drink wine for his frequent illnesses.
They did not have distilled, filtered water in those days; it wasn't that clean.

And on that point, Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as living water - does that mean that the Spirit was unclean and needed purifying? Of course not; that is what HE does for US.
 
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I'm not sure if this passage has been quoted yet in this debate but if so it bears repeating: “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Perhaps having a drink (of alchoholic beverage) lowers the inhibitions so that evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony and slander are more likely in people with twisted hearts.

But the truth is that it is not the alchohol that is evil, rather it is the heart and the mouth (or whatever) that exhibits these things that misses the mark.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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The bible does not say wine is bad, or alcohol and does not condemn drinking. What it says is do not be a drunkard. There is a difference. For some it may be best not to drink any alcohol such as recovering alcoholics but there are many examples of people drinking wine, but I cannot think of one about grape juice in any translation. Wine was widely drunk as the brewing process also keeps it safer to drink that water could be and it can be stored for longer than water in unsanitised condition due to the alcohol. Water had to be fresh from the well or water source.
 
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Because Israel had not yet taken the land. The tithe mentioned in Deut 14 was of the land. It was in the context of bringing that tithe to God at the festival time that God permitted them wine and strong drink. While they were in the wilderness, how would they have been able to make wine? This is why Deut 29 says that they had not drunk wine.

But you are not listening to the REASON why God told them that they did not drink strong drink. You are saying it was because they were in the wilderness. While it is true they were in the wilderness, God is saying the reason they did not drink was because it for them to know that He was the Lord their God.

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God." (Deuteronomy 29:6).

Also, Deuteronomy 14:26 is talking about the purchasing of wine. So wines purchased that were stronger in alcoholic content were mixed with water.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 NIV
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”​

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.​
 
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I'm not sure if this passage has been quoted yet in this debate but if so it bears repeating: “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Perhaps having a drink (of alchoholic beverage) lowers the inhibitions so that evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony and slander are more likely in people with twisted hearts.

But the truth is that it is not the alchohol that is evil, rather it is the heart and the mouth (or whatever) that exhibits these things that misses the mark.

Right, so Jesus could have eaten cocain cakes, space brownies, and live small children?
In other words, the eating of anything would not have included dangerous drugs, mild poisons, and living people, etc. The Lord was preparing us for Peter's vision where God told Peter to eat unclean animals.
 
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JacksBratt

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Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.

"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!
Of course... any left over.........they just put it in the fridge....

Really guys?...... grape juice?

In that country, with that climate.... grape juice would be wine in a day or two anyway.

Grapes have yeast on their skin, naturally. squish some grapes into grape juice... put it in a jug.. wait a couple of days... grape wine...

This is why, at the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:13-17King James Version (KJV)

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.


14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:


15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.


16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;


17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


These men were not drunk... cause they only drank grape juice?????

Nope.....

They were not drunk because it is "but the third hour of the day".

I guess the phrase "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" wasn't a term used back then.
 
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Of course... any left over.........they just put it in the fridge....

Really guys?...... grape juice?

In that country, with that climate.... grape juice would be wine in a day or two anyway.

Grapes have yeast on their skin, naturally. squish some grapes into grape juice... put it in a jug.. wait a couple of days... grape wine...

This is why, at the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:13-17King James Version (KJV)

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.


14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:


15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.


16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;


17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


These men were not drunk... cause they only drank grape juice?????

Nope.....

They were not drunk because it is "but the third hour of the day".

I guess the phrase "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" wasn't a term used back then.

Not true. Unfermented wine could easily be preserved without electricity, refrigeration, or pasteurization. Following are several examples.

Reduce Its Consistency

One way is to boil fresh expressed wine down to about a third or fifth of its consistency. This thick, strong wine or syrup would keep without fermentation. When ready to drink, it would just be mixed with water. This was also done with cider and other fruit.

Patrick E. McGovern is a pro-drinking secular authority on ancient and modern wine. He said, “Concentrating grape juice down by heating is still used to make the popular shireh of modern Iran and was known to the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia as well as the Greeks and Romans. It enables fruit to be preserved, and, diluted with water, it produces a refreshing, nonalcoholic beverage.” (Ancient Wine: The Search For The Origins Of Viniculture by Patrick E. McGovern, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey, 2003).

Tischendorf wrote of a visit to Coptic monasteries in Egypt in 1845, “Instead of wine they use a thick juice of the grape, which I at first mistook for oil.”

Aristotle said the wine of Arcadia was so thick it was necessary to scrape it from the wineskins and dissolve it in water (Patton, Bible Wines).

Length of the Grape Harvest

The grape harvest lasted six months. This was done by planting different varieties of grapes, and planting them in different microclimates. Ancient writers testified of the vast number of varieties of grapes; some said they were innumerable. Grape vines and cuttings were transported throughout the Roman world.

Israel was at the crossroads of the world. Agriculture was their life. Some vines bear an early harvest, some midseason, some late. The first grapes can be picked as early as July, the latest in December. Some vines ripen all their grapes at once; others over a long period of time. Some grapes bore two crops a year. Grapes right off the vine were available for half the year.

It was a common practice to squeeze a bunch of grapes by hand directly into a cup and drink that fresh, sweet (fermentation takes away the sweetness) unfermented wine. “Then Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand; and I took the grapes and pressed them into Pharaoh’s cup, and placed the cup in Pharaoh’s hand” (Genesis 40:11). Historian Josephus refers to this. Pharaoh apparently preferred his wine fresh and unfermented.

A stone relief found in the Roman city of Pompeii pictures the god of wine (in sore need of a loincloth), squeezing grapes by hand into a cup (Patton, Bible Wines). Early church writings referred to pressing grapes into a cup for the Lord’s Supper.

Grapes Preserved Fresh

Grapes could be preserved fresh for months. Some will protest their grapes don’t keep long. Let me explain. Any old-time gardener will tell you some fruits and vegetables are “good keepers,” others are not. A good keeper, at room temperature, can remain fresh for months. This was especially well-known in ancient times when such knowledge could mean the difference between going hungry or not, or even prevent starvation.

Characteristics of good “keeping” grapes include a tough skin and adhering well to the cluster. The cluster would be cut from the vine. Any bad grapes would be clipped, not pulled, from the cluster. Pulling a grape leaves a “brush” that can start a molding, decaying process. Grape clusters were loosely packed in straw, cotton, bran, or hung from the ceiling. Periodically they would be inspected and any bad grapes clipped off.

The right varieties of grapes stored in this way would last fresh for months. Leon C. Field, Methodist scholar, said, in 1883, “Niebuhr says that, ‘the Arabs preserve grapes by hanging them up in their cellars, and eat them almost through the whole year.’ Dr. Kerr says, ‘A friend of mine now in Britain not long since unpacked grapes he had received eleven months previously from the continent, finding them fresh and good.’”

An early 1800s recipe book, called “receipts” back then, gives directions that would preserve grapes fresh for 12 months. These grapes could be pressed into a cup at any time of the year (New Family Receipt Book, London; 1820).

Made from Dried Grapes

Wine was also made from dried grapes or raisins. Drying is one of the oldest methods of preserving food. Raisins were rehydrated by soaking or boiling and pressed into wine.

The Talmud (ancient Jewish writings) refers to raisin wine. Polybius (Greek historian c. 100 BC) spoke of un-intoxicating raisin wine. A medieval Arabian writer refers to raisin wine for the Lord’s Supper. Modern day Jews refer to raisin wine.

Sealing “Must”

Seal “must” in amphora (wine container). Roman writer Cato (c. 170 BC) said, “If you would keep must [new unfermented wine] for a year, pour it into an amphora and seal the cork with pitch. Immerse the amphora in cold water for thirty days. Then remove it and the must will be preserved for one year” (De Agri Cultura).

Additionally, olive oil and resin were used to make containers and contents airtight. Filtering was claimed to break the strength of wine. Chemical additives were used. Fermented wine could be boiled to remove the alcohol.

The above methods were widely practiced and provided unfermented wine throughout the year.

Source:
GULF COAST PASTOR: Preserving Unfermented Wine in Bible Times
 
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The bible does not say wine is bad, or alcohol and does not condemn drinking. What it says is do not be a drunkard. There is a difference. For some it may be best not to drink any alcohol such as recovering alcoholics but there are many examples of people drinking wine, but I cannot think of one about grape juice in any translation. Wine was widely drunk as the brewing process also keeps it safer to drink that water could be and it can be stored for longer than water in unsanitised condition due to the alcohol. Water had to be fresh from the well or water source.

I am an Abstentionist, and not a Prohibitionist. See my updated OP (Original Post) here for an explanation.

Thank you;
And may God bless you in all good that you do for Him.
 
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Francis Drake

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If you put alcohol in a glass and put a dirty penny in it, it cleans the dirty.
So does vinegar. By your fool logic, is vinegar a sin also?
If you put meat in it, it dries up the meat.
So does salt. By your fool logic, is salt a sin also?
Now, the alcohol has no way of knowing between being inside you our outside of you. It will seek to do the same inside your body.
As will salt and vinegar, making your logic utterly worthless.
Salt and vinegar are disinfectants, purifiers, preservatives,............and just like alcohol, are also poisons if misused.
 
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The bible does not say wine is bad, or alcohol and does not condemn drinking. What it says is do not be a drunkard. There is a difference. For some it may be best not to drink any alcohol such as recovering alcoholics but there are many examples of people drinking wine, but I cannot think of one about grape juice in any translation. Wine was widely drunk as the brewing process also keeps it safer to drink that water could be and it can be stored for longer than water in unsanitised condition due to the alcohol. Water had to be fresh from the well or water source.

I believe the OT saint drank wine that was mixed with water; As a result, this was a wine that was lower in alcoholic content than today's wines. The OT saint was forbidden in drinking strong alcoholic wine. However, this is not the case for the NT saint. The NT (New Testament) saint has a liberty in Christ to drink soberly and responsibly. While this is the case, I encourage even NT saints to abstain if they can because alcoholic drinks are technicaly a mild poison that will seek to destroy their internal organs (and in some cases cause addiction and trouble for them). For 100,000 people die from alcohol related reasons every year; And millions are spent in the rehabilitation of those who struggle with alcohol. So while it is lawful to drink it is not profitable - IMO. Just as while it is lawful for you to swim in waters that you know are shark infested, it simply is not profitable in the long term.

Anyways, here are....

21 Warnings That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

(Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
(Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)

1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

9) Proverbs 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.


Passages For the New Testament Saint:

(After the Cross: NT Saints (Not All) have a liberty in Christ to drink alcohol soberly & privately)
(Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
(Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)


16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.

21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine
 
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