Did Jesus himself claims: "I am God, and worship me?"
- Thread starter Anand Prabhu Antony
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Albion
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What citations? If we are speaking of Jesus as God, that's one subject. If we are to take up the matter of the virgin birth (which I did not realize we were discussing), that would be a different subject requiring a different set of citations.
The subject of this thread/ticket is "Did Jesus claim to be God?" It was worded differently in the title, but that's the subject. I see, by checking back through the earlier posts that most of the necessary citations from the Bible have indeed been given by someone or other. If there is something else to discuss, please let me know.
The subject of this thread/ticket is "Did Jesus claim to be God?" It was worded differently in the title, but that's the subject. I see, by checking back through the earlier posts that most of the necessary citations from the Bible have indeed been given by someone or other. If there is something else to discuss, please let me know.
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Proud Pagan
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There are at least a half-dozen definite claims of divinity that came from Jesus over the course of his public ministry that are recorded in the New Testament. <<< Citations for them
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Albion
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As I check back through this long thread/ticket, I see that posts 5, 6, 7, and 13 have already given and, in most cases, commented on the relevant Bible verses. It looks like we who have come later are just retreading the same ground that they covered. But if you look at these (and possibly others), I don't know how you can feel that there has not been evidence given. I will take up any aspect of the matter that you wish to examine further, however.
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Proud Pagan
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Jesus claims here to be God . However various verses which I have shown earlier speak some other story. It shows how corrupted bible is . For instance Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30).
I can easily counter this verse by Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Contradicts . God cannot be tempted. James 1:13 Yet Jesus was tempted
As he was dying, Jesus asked God why he had foresaken him. you imply God forsakes himself? Mark 15:34
> Father which hath sent me draw him
This verse is itself disputed for the word could not have existed in the beginning without the speaker: and therefore to say that the Word was with God, is useless. The Word can never be God. Since the Word was with God in the beginning, neither of the two can be said to have existed prior to the other. The world could not have been made by the help of the Word unless the material cause (of the universe) also existed.
The maker could create the universe even without the Word by keeping quiet. What was life and where was it? This verse (John 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.,) would make the souls eternal (beginningless), and if they be eternal the statement of Genesis which says "The Lord God breathed the breadth of life into the nostrils of man" would be wrong. Is life the light of men alone and not of the animals and other living creatures?
Contradiction . - “‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important for you?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy 6:4-5.
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The book of revelations is a very difficult book. Many Christians don't fully understand it. Your a pagan I don't know why I am even replying to you. The stuff im going to share with you is for bible believing people.
The book of revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ to john the apostle. Jesus was speaking to john and john was writing it down. I should write a book about this and make a lot of money. Jesus was basically telling John who he is. Read revelation 1:8
Revelation 1:8
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
This is Jesus speaking to john telling him hes the Almighty. The beginning and the end and which was, and which is to come. (meaning the second coming of Christ).
if you read revelation
Revelation Chapter 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Jesus speaking "I have sent mine angel to testify" Who could send angels?? only God. Angels only listen to God and angels only take orders from God the almighty. Jesus was able to send his angel because he is God and his angels was sent to testify.
This might not make any sense to you because your a pagan. This is mostly for bible believing people. a short teaching on revelations something to talk about during bible study.
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Proud Pagan
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My friend the troubling is the Gospel of Mark makes no mention of any virgin birth. Paul's Epistles and Romans were written a decade or more before Mark also makes no mention of this. When examined in the context of the surrounding chapters of this book, this verse looks more like a discussion of an upcoming event in the author's life.
The verse thought to be a prophecy appears at Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el."
Before you accuse me of fudging the verse by replacing virgin with "young woman" I assure you that I pulled this out of the most accurate translation of the Bible that there is, the Revised Standard Version. That this is the correct word used here can be seen from comparing how the word translated as "young woman" is translated in other places.
The Hebrew word is ALMAH (al-mah) and it is used 7 times in the Bible. Strictly speaking, it means young woman but depending on the Bible that you are using, it is translated as virgin, maiden and damsel, as well. There is another Hebrew word which is specifically translated as virgin. It is BETHULAH (be-too-lah) and it appears in the Bible 50 times. 38 times it is translated as virgin while the other 12 are spread out over the words maid and maiden. As you can see, there is some question if this word is properly translated.
Beyond the issue of translation is the problem of how the alleged prophecy sits within the verses and chapters around it. Here is some background behind the verse at Isaiah 7:14:
In the first verse of the chapter, we are given the historical context. It is the time of King Ahaz of Judah. It is not a good time for the kingdom as the two nations of Israel and Assyria are marching towards Judah to do battle. At verse three, we are told that the Lord says to Isaiah that he should go to meet King Ahaz and tell him to go and meet the other two kings. Isaiah is told to tell Ahaz that there is nothing to fear from the two kings as they will be defeated and destroyed.
In verse 11, the Lord tells Ahaz to ask him for a sign that these things would come to pass. Ahaz refuses, stating that he will not put the Lord to the test. In response to this, the Lord says that the sign would be given anyway, and that a young woman would bear a child and it would be named Immanuel.
If this were the end of the prophecy and a new subject was started, we might suppose that this is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus, even though Jesus' name is not used. Immanuel does mean "god is with us" but that does not constitute that this would be Jesus. There is more to the prophecy, however, as we see in the two verses directly following 7:14:
15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.
16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.
We can see from these two subsequent verses that the whole purpose of the prophecy is that a child would be born in Ahaz's time that would be a sign that the two attacking countries would be deserted. Would a birth some 700 years later (when Jesus was born) have been any kind of sign to King Ahaz? No, of course not. He was long dead before Jesus was born.
Finally, we see that in the very next chapter of Isaiah there is a birth. We know that this is the prophesied child to be born simply based on the following two verses from Isaiah 8:
3 And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the LORD said to me, "Call his name Ma'her-shal'al-hash-baz
4 for before the child knows how to cry 'My father' or 'My mother,' the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Sama'ria will be carried away before the king of Assyria."
While we do not know the significance of the name Ma'her-shal'al-hash-baz, we do know that it can not be linked up with Jesus' name or Immanuel. We do see, however, know that this is the child prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 as verse 4 here makes the same claim as the verses following 7:14.
Conclusion
We see above that there are numerous problems with this being a prophecy of Jesus. The first and foremost is the translation problem. We see that Isaiah was familiar with the term BETHULAH and used it when he wanted to convey a woman's virginity. That he did not employ it at 7:14 seems to indicate that this is not what he meant for this prophecy.
In addition to this is the problem that the prophecy was framed in such a way that for it to be true, it would need to occur in the time of King Ahaz. Lastly, we see that the child is indeed born during Ahaz's time as chapter 8 shows us.
Far from being a prophecy of a virgin birth, we find a regular pregnancy some 700 years prior to the birth of Jesus.
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klutedavid
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Hello Antony.
Jesus never rejected worship, not once.
Jesus humbled Himself beyond any recognition to become one of us, when God humbles Himself no one can see through it.
Jesus was most certainly the man sitting on the throne in Ezekiel's vision.
Ezekiel 1:26-28
26 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.
That man is YHWH sitting on the throne, which is identical to the vision John received.
Revelation 1:12-16
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lamp stands; and in the middle of the lamp stands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.
One in the same, both visions are of YHWH.
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Proud Pagan
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First the Book of Revelation is an unreliable book. Early Christians and elders of the Church - Marcion, Caius of Rome, Dionysius of Alexandria, Amphilocius of Iconium, Gregory of Nazianzus, Cyril of Jerusalem, Synod of Laodicea in 360 CE - disputed it. The author of the Revelation identifies himself as some unknown John, but probably not the apostle John because the style of the book is completely different from the Gospel of John.Other than his name, very little is known about him.Christians dont understand it fully and yet believe . This is funny . No offense .
Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Biblical scholars are not completely sure what the phrase “the Alpha and the Omega” means. It cannot be strictly literal, because neither God nor Jesus is a Greek letter. It is like saying God is ‘A’ and ‘Z’.
I can easily counter this by Matthew 2:13-20. Jesus escapes to Egypt because Herod wanted to kill him. An Angel from GOD came to Joseph and ordered them to escape to Egypt.
If Jesus was Creator, then he wouldn't need an Angel to come down to tell Joseph of an unseen danger, nor would he give him the ok to return because those who wanted to kill him are now dead
The angel said, “Get up and take the child and his mother back to Israel. The people who wanted to kill him are now dead.”(mat 2:20)
GOD supposedly was scared that He escaped to Egypt from His creation.
ALSO Rev 22:16 is itself contradictory . This verse also refers to Jesus as the "bright and morning star", as is Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 So is Jesus Lucifer?
Makes more sense uwu .
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I agree with you. Im not going to argue with this Guy hes a Hindu pagan Idol worshiper. Its very dangerous fellow shipping with pagans . Alot of these people have unclean spirits. They will argue with you they have religious spirits, rebellion spirits. You'll get no where with these kind of people. The devil is very sneaky he figures a way to get in your life. If you engage with a person who is demonically driven your basically giving the devil legal right into your life. I need to repent and cut any soul ties. Heres a good scripture.
2 Corinthians 6:14King James Version (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
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Proud Pagan
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You are a massive retard . Lets talk some logic uwu. I will be quoting from revelation . However I can provide moar to prove that your God has a body .
"And when he had taken the book, the four beast and four and twenty elders ell down before the Lamb, having everyone of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints." (5:8.)
I wonder when Christ was not in heaven whom did these four beasts and twenty-four elders, etc., worship by burning incense and lighting lamps and offering food (eatable) performing arti.*Now the you condemn idol-worship, whilst your heaven is the veritable home of idolatry.
Arti is ceremony performed by idolators in adoration with a lamp.
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple." (7:15.)
Is not this the crudest form of Idolatry. Does not it show that the Biblical God is localized and embodied like a man? It seems that the Christian God does not at all sleep during the night because had it not beeso, He would not have been worshiped during the night, or if He did sleep His sleep must have been very much disturbed during the night but if he worked day and night He must be very tired.
"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer: and there was a given unto him much incense. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightenings, and earthquake." (8:3 - 5.)
Now even in (the Christian heaven) there is an altar, incense is burnt, lamps lighted, eatables offered, and trumpets sounded before the altar. Is their heaven in any way less ostentatious than a temple of idol worshippers? If anything, there is more pomp and show there.
"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angle stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." (11:1.)
Let alone the earthly temples, even in the heaven of the Christians, temples of God are built and measured. Their teachings are illogical as their heaven. Take for instance the Lord's supper. In it the Christians eat bread and drink wine imagining them to be Christ's flesh and blood. Again, to keep images of the Cross in the Church is nothing short of Idol-worship.
Now get rekt !
>Spiritual matters
A blind believer like you lacks the authority to distribute certifications with regards to spirituality.
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I dont mean to sound rude but im tired of arguing with Christians or pagans. God didn't put me here to ague with people.
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Proud Pagan
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In the same way the Greeks and Romans may have worshipped their divinities, fondly believing them to be good. But the christian scriptures declare that all the gods of the Gentiles are Demons.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Devil Worship
Hail Satan Hail Shiva . Demons are true Gods uwu
Who art thou that judgest another? James 4:12
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The whole discussion about the word 'bethulah' in Isaiah with plenty of citations is given by a bible scholar here:
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