Did Jesus himself claims: "I am God, and worship me?"

[Neal of Zebulun]

This is another reason why people erroneously believe Yeshua is "God", because he was worshiped. What they don't understand is that the Hebrew and Greek words translated "worship" were used of men as well as for God. Abraham, for example, "bowed down" to men (Genesis 23:12), but "bowed down" is from the Hebrew word that is primarily used for the worship of YHWH. Trinitarians knew the people of the land where not "YHWH" so they translated the word as "bowed down". However, because the trinitarian translators believed Yeshua was God, they used "worship" in reference to him causing great confusion.

You correctly identify the meaning of the word "worship," but then you use a false meaning of the word "God" in order to make (what reads like) a denial of Christ.

יהושוע Christ is certainly "God/Elohiym" in the Scriptural definition of the word and I'm fairly certain you already know that. (Will you read this post of mine? I know it's a little long, but it will tell you where I'm coming from. But please respond to me in this thread, if you don't mind.)

Also, people did worship Christ in the sense that He is God, because they asked for forgiveness of sins, miracles, and healings. (Mark 2:5-12) This goes far beyond how Abraham was treating the people of Heth.

This proves the Father is worshiped and that He GAVE power to His Son. It says nothing about Yeshua being God or being the Father or being worshiped.

Actually in Matthew 28:18, the verse you are referring to, these things are mentioned in the surrounding context:

Matthew 28:

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where יהושוע had appointed them.​

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

18 And יהושוע came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

In verse 19, you'll notice that He mentions three entities regarding baptism, but uses the word "name" in the singular, and not "names." (Psalms 83:18)

I accept Christ as well, but I call him Messiah. Yes, YHWH wants us to accept Messiah and Messiah directs us to worship his Father, not himself.

There is no distinction between "Messiah" and "Christ" in terms of meaning that I'm aware of. They both mean "anointed one" and in יהושוע's case, "the Anointed One." Again, Anointed by whom? יהוה of course! He who gave all power to the Son. (John 8:28, John 8:24. Did you notice that the word "he" next to "I am" is added in these two verses, but not in John 8:58?)

Praise יהוה!

 

[Ajflyguy7]

The OT is definitely connected to Yeshua through prophecy, types and shadows. The NT reveals the fulfillment of those three connections.

It's easy to fulfill prophecy when you are writing the book after the prophecy was made. The stories are disconnected from "Jesus" by more than 40 years. The average lifespan back then was about 35 years. No one who witnessed any of the so called "miracles" wrote anything down. "Prophecy" doesn't impress me. Prophecy is just very generic statements that people interpret for their agenda.

 

[Peter1000]

Making Jesus a "lesser elohim" doesn't maintain monotheism, it' eliminates it.

The Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are One. That's the maintenance of monotheism.

Monotheism is 1 God. The Trinity is 3 Person in 1 God. Good try, but not the same.

 

[gadar perets]

You correctly identify the meaning of the word "worship," but then you use a false meaning of the word "God" in order to make (what reads like) a denial of Christ.

יהושוע Christ is certainly "God/Elohiym" in the Scriptural definition of the word and I'm fairly certain you already know that. (Will you read this post of mine? I know it's a little long, but it will tell you where I'm coming from. But please respond to me in this thread, if you don't mind.)

First of all, I in no way made a "denial of Christ". I certainly deny the Christian belief in his deity, but I do not deny him. Second, my understanding of the words God/Elohim/elohim are perfectly aligned with Scripture. I agree with your other post that YHWH is the only true Elohim and that there are lesser elohim under Him. However, Yeshua is one of those lesser elohim. To exalt him to being Elohim on par with YHWH is unscriptural and denies Yeshua's words in John 17:3 and the conversation in Mark 12:32. It also yields two Gods.

Also, people did worship Christ in the sense that He is God, because they asked for forgiveness of sins, miracles, and healings. (Mark 2:5-12) This goes far beyond how Abraham was treating the people of Heth.

No one "asked" for their sins to be forgiven in that passage. Yeshua did it without being asked to. How? Because he was "God"? Of course not, but because he was given the authority to do so by the only true God, YHWH. (Yeshua's Father). Anyone can forgive sins and work miracles and healings if YHWH gives them that authority and power.

Actually in Matthew 28:18, the verse you are referring to, these things are mentioned in the surrounding context:

Matthew 28:

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where יהושוע had appointed them.​

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

18 And יהושוע came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

In verse 19, you'll notice that He mentions three entities regarding baptism, but uses the word "name" in the singular, and not "names." (Psalms 83:18)

Verse 17 should read, "they bowed down to him". Just as YHWH gave Yeshua all authority, Yeshua was giving his disciples the authority to teach and baptize in his name. Just as that does not make the disciples Yeshua, Yeshua receiving authority does not make him God.

Did you notice that the word "he" next to "I am" is added in these two verses, but not in John 8:58?)

All that means is that the trinitarian translators want you to believe Yeshua is the great "I AM" of Exodus 3:14.

 

[gadar perets]

It's easy to fulfill prophecy when you are writing the book after the prophecy was made. The stories are disconnected from "Jesus" by more than 40 years. The average lifespan back then was about 35 years. No one who witnessed any of the so called "miracles" wrote anything down. "Prophecy" doesn't impress me. Prophecy is just very generic statements that people interpret for their agenda.

Yeah. I guess the fact that Yeshua died as the true Passover Lamb on the exact day and hour as the Almighty commanded the literal Passover lambs to be killed in Egypt is just a coincidence. NOT! You can shut your eyes and close your heart in unbelief to the obvious, but I will not.

 

[Ajflyguy7]

Yeah. I guess the fact that Yeshua died as the true Passover Lamb on the exact day and hour as the Almighty commanded the literal Passover lambs to be killed in Egypt is just a coincidence. NOT! You can shut your eyes and close your heart in unbelief to the obvious, but I will not.

Where was the exact day and hour prophesied?

 

[Almost there]

Dear Brothers and Sisters... We Christians believe in One true Living God. I am posting this thread to improve our knowledge in bible. Every muslims, Jehovah witness community, and other people who says that Jesus should not be worshipped, or some saying that He is only son of God, but not that God Himself or says that He should not be claimed as a son for God, but just a prophet. Anyway they just conclude to one question asking: Did Jesus himself say, "I am God and worship me"?.

I have answers for their ignorance. But, kindly share your opinions. We need to be very serious about this. Whether individually you are strong or not, there are many innocent christians getting converted to the wrong paths, since many believers as christians not properly answering to that exact question. We need to battle the dark forces through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus himself say: "I am God and worship me?".

John 8:58 “Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, “beforeAbraham was born, I am!”

The use of such an interesting tense fascinates me. I am. It makes the passage of time and order of events completely meaningless. In my opinion, it also speaks a little to the meaning of linear time outside of our current state.

 

[Peter1000]

gadar perets says,

All that means is that the trinitarian translators want you to believe Yeshua is the great "I AM" of Exodus 3:14.

That is exactly what Yeshua was trying to get them and you to believe, he was telling them that he was the great I AM of the OT.[/QUOTE]

 

[gadar perets]

Where was the exact day and hour prophesied?

Exodus 12:5 Your lamb (Passover lamb) shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
Exodus 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month (Abib 14) : and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening (Hebrew - "between the evenings").
​

The Jews understood "between the evenings" (in conjunction with Deuteronomy 16:6) to mean between noon and sundown. They traditionally killed the lambs at 3:00 PM).

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour (3:00 PM on Abib 14) Yeshua cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:50 Yeshua, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.
​

 

[Ajflyguy7]

Sure you can interpret that to mean whatever you want. You'd think the most powerful and intelligent being in existence (according to Christians) could spell it out specifically, instead of making people read into it and interpret stuff a certain way. Additionally, Matthew was written after "Jesus" death. It's pretty easy to write prophecy that fulfills itself after the so-called events happen.

 

[Peter1000]

Sure you can interpret that to mean whatever you want. You'd think the most powerful and intelligent being in existence (according to Christians) could spell it out specifically, instead of making people read into it and interpret stuff a certain way. Additionally, Matthew was written after "Jesus" death. It's pretty easy to write prophecy that fulfills itself after the so-called events happen.

That sound like poor sportsmanship. You challenge, he accepts and proves his point, and you cough and sputter and curse him for doing so. Bad tactics.

 

[gadar perets]

gadar perets says,

That is exactly what Yeshua was trying to get them and you to believe, he was telling them that he was the great I AM of the OT.

Impossible for several reasons.

1) If Yeshua was really telling them that he was the I AM of Exodus 3:14, the Greek would not read, "ego eimi, but "ho on" as the Septuagint Greek has it;

"καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς."

"And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you." Brenton's LXX

2) Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
What does Acts 3:13 say about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Yeshua is NOT the God of our fathers. He is the Son of the God of our fathers.

 

[gadar perets]

Sure you can interpret that to mean whatever you want. You'd think the most powerful and intelligent being in existence (according to Christians) could spell it out specifically, instead of making people read into it and interpret stuff a certain way. Additionally, Matthew was written after "Jesus" death. It's pretty easy to write prophecy that fulfills itself after the so-called events happen.

That is why the Bible classifies you as an "unbeliever".

 

[Ajflyguy7]

That is why the Bible classifies you as an "unbeliever".

The Bible doesn't classify anything. I don't believe in the god of the Bible because there is no real reason to believe in him. Why would I want to worship a god who destroys the entire planet, orders the death of humans for minor offenses, and completely fails to clearly communicate his message for living (the Bible contains errors, contradictions, and is completely open to interpretation)?

 

[Hayley123]

Dear Brothers and Sisters... We Christians believe in One true Living God. I am posting this thread to improve our knowledge in bible. Every muslims, Jehovah witness community, and other people who says that Jesus should not be worshipped, or some saying that He is only son of God, but not that God Himself or says that He should not be claimed as a son for God, but just a prophet. Anyway they just conclude to one question asking: Did Jesus himself say, "I am God and worship me"?.

I have answers for their ignorance. But, kindly share your opinions. We need to be very serious about this. Whether individually you are strong or not, there are many innocent christians getting converted to the wrong paths, since many believers as christians not properly answering to that exact question. We need to battle the dark forces through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus himself say: "I am God and worship me?".

H

 

[gadar perets]

The Bible doesn't classify anything. I don't believe in the god of the Bible because there is no real reason to believe in him. Why would I want to worship a god who destroys the entire planet, orders the death of humans for minor offenses, and completely fails to clearly communicate his message for living (the Bible contains errors, contradictions, and is completely open to interpretation)?

Believe what you will. You can explain your unbelief to Him come Judgment Day.

 

[Ajflyguy7]

Believe what you will. You can explain your unbelief to Him come Judgment Day.

Nice, an old classic, dodge and threaten them with hell. That always scares them. Nope, didn't work. I don't believe in your god, your heaven, or your hell. I am not scared in the least bit.

 

[gadar perets]

Nice, an old classic, dodge and threaten them with hell. That always scares them. Nope, didn't work. I don't believe in your god, your heaven, or your hell. I am not scared in the least bit.

It wasn't meant to scare you. I was simply stating a fact as I see it. Yes, I know you don't see it as a fact. Time will tell.