The Screwtape Letters and Theology
- Thread starter OrthodoxyUSA
- Start date
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
I don't see how you get from this verse "baptism salvation"? What Paul does say here, that when a person who already is a believer, gets baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, the Lord "owns" them. But, as Jesus says in Mark's Gospel, the correct way to get saved is "believe", which includes "repentance", "repent and believe the Gospel" (1:15), and "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (16:16). Note, "baptism" is not mentioned the second time! Further we read in Acts chapter 2, "Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”" (verses, 37-39); and, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19). We see that REPENTANCE is an absolute requirement for any person to get "saved" from their sins.
When you say, "Born again is baptism to us", are you referring to those who are saved through repentance of their personal sins to Almighty God; or babies who are baptized shortly after they are born?
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Sure, but God has already told us in the Holy Bible, what He requires from us sinners to do, like repent and believe in Him completely, in order to get saved and go to heaven.
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Good morning!
What other biblical things are for the remission or forgiveness for sins?
Shall we start another thread?
Forgive me...
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
John 3:3-5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 8:36-37
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
We die to ourselves and are raised in Christ's resurrection when we are baptized. We are born again. Christian truth from the beginning.
More on the subject... better written. The Orthodox Faith - Volume II - Worship - The Sacraments - Baptism
Sacrament of Holy Baptism
Forgive me...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Neither passage teaches "baptism regeneration". It is clear from the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus, that Nicodemus did not fully grasp the "new birth" that Jesus was speaking about. He thought that Jesus was speaking of physical birth, which led him to speak of re-entering his mothers womb! Jesus says "water and Spirit" to denote the two births that He meant, "human (water) and spiritual (which the Holy Spirit) produces in the believer. This is very clear from Titus 3:5.
In the Acts account, the emphasis is on REPENTING and BELIEVING, which saves the sinner, and then in an outward "witness" to the inward work of the Holy Spirit, they are baptized in water.
You have not responded if the "baptism rebirth" that your church teaches, is for babies?
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Either and or both.
Repentance and confession are required before Holy Baptism may be administered. A spiritual cleanse all, one time triple rinse in The name of The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit.
This person is now counted as a member of The Church both in Heaven and on Earth.
Forgive me...
I do my best editing after I post.
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Either and or both.
Repentance and confession are required before Holy Baptism may be administered. A spiritual cleanse all, one time triple rinse in The name of The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit.
This person is now counted as a member of The Church both in Heaven and on Earth.
Forgive me...
I do my best editing after I post.
tell me how a baby "repents" so that their sins can be forgiven?
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Don't be silly... babies don't repent, they are innocent. Never the less we do not deny them the advantages of Holy Baptism against the sins inherited from Adam. Washed, and made whiter than snow.
Can you show me in scripture where baptism was withheld because of age or understanding?
Forgive me...
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Nothing silly when it come to the Word of God, read if you will Acts 2:41, which is very clear:
" So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand an souls"
ONLY those who "accepted his (Peter's Gospel Message) were baptized". Period! So I come back to the fact that NO baby who is ever baptized can "receive the Word" of the Gospel, and therefore according to the plain Teaching of the Bible, CANNOT be baptized! It is ONLY upon hearing and accepting the Good News of what Jesus Christ has done for the lost sinner, that they can be saved. This is God's plan of salvation. Not mine or yours!
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Where do you see the word "only"?
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
Whole households were baptized. Including slaves and infants.
Forgive me...
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Not a shred of evidence that any "infants" were ever baptized in the Bible. The word "child" does not necessary mean too young to understand and believe in the Gospel. I have heard of 5 year old's accepting Jesus as their Saviour. But NO evidence for babies anywhere in Scripture. Maybe come church practice, but certainly not Biblical. A household can consist of husband, wife and teen children. Your argument is really moot!
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
No evidence that they were not. And an unbroken history supports that they did.
Your point is null.
Forgive me...
Upvote
0
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Here is some solid Bible evidence which is clear in the Greek text.
In the passage you quote from, Acts 2:39, the Greek word used for "children" is "τέκνον", which is never used to describe a "baby or infant". In Luke 18:15 we read, "and they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them". Correctly rendered as "infants" in the KJV, as the Greek word here is, "τέκνον", which is used for the "baby" Jesus in the manger in Luke 2:12, and "infants", as in 18:15. In Matthew 21:16, we read the words of Jesus, "And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?", where "babes", again correctly translated, is another Greek word, "νήπιος", used for "infants, not of age".
We must be guided by the Teaching as found in the Holy Bible, and not a "tradition" that a church might have has, even though this may be thousands of years old, as they are not infallible, only the Bible is!
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Train up a child in the way he should go...
I just want to make sure that you not for abandoning children to their own thoughts, "not raising" them, and just let them "find it on their own"... my sister's approach with my nephew.
You affectionate Uncle... (laugh darn it)
Forgive me...
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Saved.By.Grace
Active Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 233
- 145
- 62
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
so you dismiss what I have shown from God's Word, because your church "tradition" says something else?
Upvote
0
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I think "you believe" you have shown me something. It simply does not say what you imply it does.
Can you show me baptism being withheld? (I think you may be avoiding this one.)
Infant Baptism: What the Church Believes | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese
"The first recorded opposition to the practice comes from Tertullian in the third century. He objected to the practice of baptizing infants because of the heretical idea that sin after baptism was nearly unforgivable."
"Controversy over infant baptism did not arise in its present form until after the Protestant Reformation. Even Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on the practice. It was with Ulrich Zwingli (1484–1531), of the Swiss Reformed Church, that the first serious objections arose. Several of Zwingli’s students re-baptized themselves, proclaiming that they did so because their infant baptisms were invalid since they were not accompanied by professions of faith."
Do you speak Greek by the way?
Forgive me...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Tutorman
Charismatic Episcopalian
- Jun 20, 2017
- 1,637
- 1,349
- 52
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Episcopalian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Yes and we who have that have no excuse, but God is not bound by anything He can do as He pleases and it was shown that some will be judged y the law on their hearts. Not everyone heard or knew Scriptures but followed God's natural law without knowing it, they could be in heaven.
As CS Lewis so eloquently put it in the last battle:
CS Lewis said:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 6, 2004
- 25,285
- 2,868
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Dear Patient,
Check your baggage for bad apples. You may dispose of them in any of the refuse bins. You're bound to find some, so don't be upset when you turn one over. Often, 'others' who should remain nameless, have stuck these in your bag as you were traveling. No doubt they desired to spoil your entire holdings.
Use the Psalms as your prayer rule, every three hours or as often as you can. A copy has been placed by your bed. Administer in moderate doses and a let calmness wash over you. Read them aloud and let your breath flow. Regular use has been known to break one out in singing. This usually happens after one has laid aside all earthly cares. When this happens be assured that it is working.
Give thanks for what you are given knowing that it is lent to you by your creator just as the breath of life was given. Give freely and love one another. Taking care of others is a circular activity. It will come back to you.
You affectionate Guardian Angel,
Gavreel
Forgive me...
Check your baggage for bad apples. You may dispose of them in any of the refuse bins. You're bound to find some, so don't be upset when you turn one over. Often, 'others' who should remain nameless, have stuck these in your bag as you were traveling. No doubt they desired to spoil your entire holdings.
Use the Psalms as your prayer rule, every three hours or as often as you can. A copy has been placed by your bed. Administer in moderate doses and a let calmness wash over you. Read them aloud and let your breath flow. Regular use has been known to break one out in singing. This usually happens after one has laid aside all earthly cares. When this happens be assured that it is working.
Give thanks for what you are given knowing that it is lent to you by your creator just as the breath of life was given. Give freely and love one another. Taking care of others is a circular activity. It will come back to you.
You affectionate Guardian Angel,
Gavreel
Forgive me...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
