Is Mary God?

Major1 said:

Wonderful! I have no idea how many people I have had the honor of sharing the gospel with and leading them to Christ over all of these years.

My productions, and study guides and sermons have been sent all over the world and the result has been to the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ in that He has been lifted up and lost souls have come to Him and been saved.

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Peace be with you.

That is Good News indeed Major1 for the better or worse, I hope.

May God bless you abundantly for loving Him so dearly, Major1.

God bless you.

Major1 said:

I do not know if "downgraded" is the proper term.

I do not believe that the Bible in any way whatsoever promotes Mary above and beyond other women to the point where she is "venerated" and IMO worshipped as is the case in the Catholic faith.

Anyone and everyone is welcome to disagree with me but my point is and has been that the Bible simply does not even suggest such an action. If YOU or anyone else wants to do that, then it is YOUR choice to do so which is against the Law of God and His commandments.

Exodus 20:4-5.............
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."

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Peace be with you, Major1.

I understand your concerns.

You believe that after 50 years+ of studying Holy Scripture and evangelising, that there is no basis for Devotion to Mary, the Mother of God as espoused and promulgated by the Catholic Church.


You believe in Holy Scripture right, Major1?


Let me ask you something.


Did God have a Holy Union with Mary


Or an Adulterous Union with Mary


To produce Baby Jesus?


Is Almighty God a Breaker of His Own Word?


The Sacrament of Marriage as promulgated by Almighty God defined by Holy Scripture is Union between a man and a woman into One Flesh.


And a Man and a Woman is the Image of God.


Spend some time thinking about this Major1 before you answer as it is quite a complex question which requires a deep understanding of Holy Scripture and God Himself.


God bless you.

Albion said:

She does appear to be above other women in certain ways, though. Her role in history would dictate that conclusion and warrant respect. But that is quite different from opening the floodgates to devotions and dogmas that make her much, much more than this.

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Peace be with you, Albion.

I understand where you are coming from, Albion.

Duly noted.

God bless you.

Major1 said:

You may very well be correct my friend. Allow me to restate my comment.

Every Catholic church that I HAVE BEEN IN has a statue of Mary on one side and Joseph on the other and Jesus on the cross in the middle.

From one of your own Catholic apologetic web sites ..........
Why Catholics Have Statues in Their Churches
"Catholics have a long tradition of using statues in our churches, because thousands of years ago, people were not able to read and write. The average person could not read and understand the stories in the bible for themselves, until the early 1900’s. Priests and scribes were the only people in the church who were educated enough to read and understand the bible. Therefore, the church used statues, paintings and stained glass windows to visually portray the stories in the bible and show what people from that time period may have looked like. The stained glass windows in a church often depicted the stories from Jesus’ life visually, so that everyone, including little children, could understand who Jesus was.

It isn’t much different today."

And YES! I certainly condemn any Protestant saved person who breaks the commandments of God by committing KNOWN SIN.

Don't YOU as well?????

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Peace be with you.

I understand your view.

Let's consider the statues as ornaments and furniture to make the Church where a Catholic goes in to worship God more hospitable and attractive so that the Catholic can concentrate and get into the rhythm of spiritual devotion more quickly and deeply like a well decorated home where much thought goes into its design and placement of decorations.

Well, I can see why you are an evangelist. At least, you are fair in your condemnation.

I let them know when asked in a more indirect manner but we all have our ways of doing things.

Your method may be more effective in one case and my method may be more effective in another case.

We are all mere instruments of Almighty God, after all.

God bless you.

Major1 said:

No my friend I do not.

The Bible says that "Greater is He who is in that he (Satan) who is in the world".

The born again believer can not be demon possessed because the presence of the Holy Spirit will not allow it.

Now, before we are saved we were all children of the devil and did as he commanded us.

Ephesians 2:1-3..........
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

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Major1 said:

As I have stated before to you, since Jesus did not come through the normal means of conception he had no sin nature. Yet he was fully human, feeling the emotions we do, his body got tired, he became hungry and needed sleep just like anyone else. Jesus although fully human was not in the same category as man with a sin nature, although he looked like any other He alone was without sin.

In our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. Jesus however did not have the sin nature that we have. He was free to act perfectly in all situations. He acted upon his sinless nature obeying another's will, that of his Father. He was not able to go against God's will because He did not have the nature of sin to have that possibility. He knew no sin meaning He gained no knowledge of sin through experience. He came like a man looking like anyone else yet without the sinful nature, there was nothing of himself on the outside that attracted people. As Jesus took upon himself another nature of humanity it did not have the indwelling of sin that marred man.

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Peace be with you.

Major1, do you have a sin nature still or you don't have a sin nature?

God bless you.

Major1 said:

That is "Rationalization" my friend.

Do YOU think that bowing down to a statue of Mary is actually praising God even though doing so breaks the Law of God?????

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Peace be with you.

God saves through mysterious manners.

Well, that is better than stealing or hurting someone.

Just look at it like the Catholic is bending down and exercising in front of a statue. The Catholic is doing a combined physical and spiritual exercise.

God bless you.

Major1 said:

No my friend I do not.

The Bible says that "Greater is He who is in that he (Satan) who is in the world".

The born again believer can not be demon possessed because the presence of the Holy Spirit will not allow it.

Now, before we are saved we were all children of the devil and did as he commanded us.

Ephesians 2:1-3..........
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

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Major1 said:

That is not what was said. EVERYONE sinned before they were saved. EVERYONE continues to sin after they are saved.

The saved man has the faith to believe upon Christ and be forgiven of his sin.

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Peace be with you, Major1.

Those 2 posts contradict one another.

Whoever sins is a slave of sin.

I am sorry to tell you this, Major1.

But you are also a slave of sin, the Devil and a slave of Jesus Christ as well.


John 8 Modern English Version (MEV)

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.


But you add to your problems by adding hypocrisy to the list.

That is why I said, "Clean the pot first before you call the kettle black."

God bless you.

PeaceB said:

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

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Peace be with you.

That is Absolutely Spot On.

God bless you.

Major1 said:

And YES! I certainly condemn any Protestant saved person who breaks the commandments of God by committing KNOWN SIN.

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Major1 said:

No my friend I do not.

The Bible says that "Greater is He who is in that he (Satan) who is in the world".

The born again believer can not be demon possessed because the presence of the Holy Spirit will not allow it.

Now, before we are saved we were all children of the devil and did as he commanded us.

Ephesians 2:1-3..........
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

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Major1 said:

That is "Rationalization" my friend.

Do YOU think that bowing down to a statue of Mary is actually praising God even though doing so breaks the Law of God?????

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Major1 said:

That is not what was said. EVERYONE sinned before they were saved. EVERYONE continues to sin after they are saved.

The saved man has the faith to believe upon Christ and be forgiven of his sin.

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Peace be with you, Major1.

That is Hypocrisy and Rationalisation, my Friend.

I get the sense that your Salvation Theology consists of this:

The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever is that the Christian can sin and be forgiven by God and go to Heaven while unbelievers can sin but they go to Hell.

God bless you.

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

No. If a Christian has faith and then is taught that "works do not save," He is a believer because he believes and acts on the instruction, "works do not save" as taught by Protestants.

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Not only does that statement refute itself by starting with the idea of someone having saving Faith and then supposing that hearing a Catholic theory will destroy it in him...but it is amazing that anyone here would think he knows personally what is in the hearts of hundreds of millions of believers.

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you, Major1.

That is Hypocrisy and Rationalisation, my Friend.

I get the sense that your Salvation Theology consists of this:

The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever is that the Christian can sin and be forgiven by God and go to Heaven while unbelievers can sin but they go to Hell.

God bless you.

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BINGO......YOU GOT IT!!! You are 100% correct my friend!

BUT, faith in Christ is NOT a license to sin.

With a little reading you will find in Rom 6:1 ..........
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?"

Then in Rom 6:2 ........
"By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

The person with redemption in Christ will actually begin to despise sin and avoid it.

The person with redemption in Christ will actually begin to despise sin and avoid it.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

Rom 6:2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

Again, 2 Tim. 2:15 says...............
"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you, Major1.

Those 2 posts contradict one another.

Whoever sins is a slave of sin.

I am sorry to tell you this, Major1.

But you are also a slave of sin, the Devil and a slave of Jesus Christ as well.


John 8 Modern English Version (MEV)

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.


But you add to your problems by adding hypocrisy to the list.

That is why I said, "Clean the pot first before you call the kettle black."

God bless you.

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My dear friend.....you are working awfully hard to prove something that is your OPINION.

Again I say to you .........
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

If you would spend the time in Bible study instead of on line forums you would be able to answer these obscure postulations.

Romans 6:20-23......
"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

God saves through mysterious manners.

Well, that is better than stealing or hurting someone.

Just look at it like the Catholic is bending down and exercising in front of a statue. The Catholic is doing a combined physical and spiritual exercise.

God bless you.

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Are you kidding me???

God DOES NOT save through "Mysterious manners".

God save us through the Lord Jesus Christ. There is NO Mystery whatsoever.
The Church does not save you. The Pope does not save you. Mary does not save you. The Rosery does not save you.

We are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!!!!

Please take the time to actually read a Bible and these kind of questions can be easily discovered by you.

You are now saying that it is acceptable to bow down to a graven image, breaking the 2 Commandment of God BECAUSE THE BENDING IS PHYSICAL EXERCISE.

My dear friend, I mean no disrespect to you but what you are saying is totally incomprehensible but is ridiculous as well. Do you sit and think about what you post before you post it??????

Honestly........I do not know you and I do not want to hurt your feelings but you are making it very difficult to take you seriously.

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

Major1, do you have a sin nature still or you don't have a sin nature?

God bless you.

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My dear friend. If you would take the time to open your Bible and read it, you would find that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has a sin nature.

Romans 5:12 ..........
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

Psalms 51:5 ...........
"Behold,I was shapen in iniquity,and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Ephesians 2:3 ........
"Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

AFTER Paul was saved he wrote these words in Romans 7:14-15.........
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."

Read your Bible!!!!

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

I understand your view.

Let's consider the statues as ornaments and furniture to make the Church where a Catholic goes in to worship God more hospitable and attractive so that the Catholic can concentrate and get into the rhythm of spiritual devotion more quickly and deeply like a well decorated home where much thought goes into its design and placement of decorations.

Well, I can see why you are an evangelist. At least, you are fair in your condemnation.

I let them know when asked in a more indirect manner but we all have our ways of doing things.

Your method may be more effective in one case and my method may be more effective in another case.

We are all mere instruments of Almighty God, after all.

God bless you.

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Again......you are "Rationalizing" your opinion.

You are agreeing that there are graven images in the Catholic but now you are saying
that they are ornaments. You have already said that it is OK to bow down to those statues because it is EXERCISE.

You do know that you are driving the Catholic believers crazy with your opionions don't you?

Listen.......you are correct in that those statues are pieces of furniture, ornaments or decorations. The problem my friend is that YOU BOW down to them and acknowledge them with veneration and worship.

Now you can call it anything that you want to but Every time YOU do that you knowing break the 2 Command of God which is then KNOWN SIN.

Ex. 20:4-5........
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you, Major1.

I understand your concerns.

You believe that after 50 years+ of studying Holy Scripture and evangelising, that there is no basis for Devotion to Mary, the Mother of God as espoused and promulgated by the Catholic Church.


You believe in Holy Scripture right, Major1?


Let me ask you something.


Did God have a Holy Union with Mary


Or an Adulterous Union with Mary


To produce Baby Jesus?


Is Almighty God a Breaker of His Own Word?


The Sacrament of Marriage as promulgated by Almighty God defined by Holy Scripture is Union between a man and a woman into One Flesh.


And a Man and a Woman is the Image of God.


Spend some time thinking about this Major1 before you answer as it is quite a complex question which requires a deep understanding of Holy Scripture and God Himself.


God bless you.

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Let me be clear. My years of study has nothing to do with the Truth of God's Word.

I do not believe that any devotion should be given to Mary BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE WORD OR SUGGESTION IN THE BIBLE THAT CALLS FOR IT.

You by your choice have chosen to be involved in the Catholic faith. The Catholic teachings therein are their own and are not Biblical in many cases and the worship of Mary is one of them.

Now, your question was, did God commit adultery with Mary?........NO!

Ex. 20:14 says...........
"God tells us that we should not commit adultery".

You are working to show God also takes Joseph’s wife in order to impregnate her. Isn’t this a moral failing?

While God did impregnate Mary, there are a number of problems with calling this adultery.

First, Mary wasn’t married. She was betrothed (Mt. 1:18). Of course, in Jewish culture, betrothal was like marriage, but it was still different from marriage.

Second, there wasn’t any sex. Matthew writes that about Mary in Matt. 1:18........
“Mary was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit”.

No intercourse occurred, because God is a spiritual being as seen in Jn. 4:24, not a physical being.

This was a miracle—not a rugged, physical act of sex.

Third, God wasn’t impregnating Mary to TAKE from her or Joseph, but to GIVE to them and humanity. Adultery is a selfish act. God wasn’t impregnating Mary to separate their family (Mary and Joseph stayed together) or to gain sexual pleasure (no sex or physical pleasure was involved). Instead, God was doing this to give a Savior to mankind, where he went through the greatest suffering imaginable.

Fourth, since Mary was quickly wed to Joseph, this didn’t affect her marriage.

Because Mary was a virgin, her womb was defiled by man which allowed the Lord Jesus to be born without a SIN NATURE.

it REALLY IS NOT THAT HARD MY FRIEND.

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

That is Good News indeed Major1 for the better or worse, I hope.

May God bless you abundantly for loving Him so dearly, Major1.

God bless you.

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Thank you for the blessings and respect, however what I have done is all for the glory of God as I am only a servant in the war between God and Satan.

[nevermind:]

Gabriel Anton said:

Peace be with you.

You're making the assumption that I don't read Holy Scriptures. Like I said, "Presumptuous."

God bless you.

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You are correct my friend. I make that assumption from the questions and comments you post.

Again, I do not mean to disrespect you bout your thoughts and questions are all answered very easily from the Word of God.

I spend many, many years of Bible study before I ever turned on a computer. All I am saying to you that time might be better spent in Bible study instead of internet forums trying to uphold Mary and veneration to her.

FenderTL5 said:

If it were written like evangelical praise choruses.

Protestant asks, "Do you worship Mary?"
|Catholics answer, "NO, we do not!"

Protestant replies, "Yes you do!": ||

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LOL.....I agree with that.

However, the Scriptures are very clear in Is. 42.....
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

Then there are the actual teaching of the catholic faith.

I am sure that you are aware that Roman Catholic officials claim that a supernatural event occurred in 1917 in which the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared repeatedly to 3 little children in Fatima, Portugal. Supposedly, the Virgin Mary gave a message to the 3 children—Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco—consisting of an alleged number of precise predictions, requests, warnings and promises concerning the Catholic faith. An "apparition" means "the unexpected or unusual appearance of a ghostly figure."

The 5th of the 15 promises made by Our Lady of Fatima concerning the Rosary is that it is unmistakable, clear, proof, that Catholics do indeed worship Mary. Here's the 5th promise...

"The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish." This is from (Essential: Requests: The 15 Promises of Our Lady to Christians Who Recite the Rosary).

If that is not the explination of the worship of Mary.....what then is it?

John 3:16.........
"For God so loved the world, that He gave the Rosery of Mary that whosever recited it should not perish but have everlasting life"