Donald Trump accuses Obama of orchestrating protests and leaks against him

dgiharris · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Isn't it sad how even the well meaning people can get polluted by the washington DC sewage so rapidly? If Clinton walks I will NOT vote to re-elect Trump.

What you fail to grasp is the ramifications of a Clinton prosecution.

We have a two party system. The Dems and the GOP rotate power on an 8yr to 12yr basis. Even when one party is "in control" the other party has deep roots going through every branch of government at all levels.

In order to govern effectively, occasionally rules get broken and mistakes are made.
There is an unspoken rule among the leaders of each party to not go after the leaders of the other party when the power shifts. If this truce were ever broken, then we'd have a bureaucratic version of a civil war and our country would probably implode and completely collapse.

When Bush and Cheney left office, how many Dems were screaming bloody murder to prosecute them for torture and violating the Geneva Convention and other crimes... But Obama did not. He could have, he could have used the power of his office to decimate and obliterate the old guard... but he didn't. Why? Because he was smart enough to realize that that would have destroyed the country. Right or wrong, it would have led to the disintegration of our bureaucracy and government.

Same with prosecuting Clinton.

For the sake of Argument, lets say Clinton is 100% guilty and there is a 100% smoking gun evidence against her. Even given all of that, the worst thing you could do would be to prosecute her and Trump knows it. Or more likely, Trump didn't know it and Preibus had to explain it to him.

So yes, I know GOP types hate the Clintons and the thought of her getting what she deserves probably gets you excited in ways that are inappropriate to discuss in this forum. But be that as it may, it can never happen. The country would not survive it.
So at best, she will get some public shaming and a slap on the wrist (which she has already received) and that is the end of that. Country moves on and Trump is smart enough to realize that now which is why he isn't bringing the subject up at all anymore...

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

Belk said:
Was that before or after the slaves were counted? It would not happen to be afterwords would it? Because that would mean that the slave states had a large amount of electoral votes based on the number of their slaves but concentrated to the voting population of white land owners in the state.

It wasn't an issue at the founding, but it became one later. That's where the 3/5ths Compromise came in.

KCfromNC · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Keep telling the lie and eventually you'll believe it.

Missed his press conference, I see.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

tulc said:
I might point out that the only person who doesn't seem to care for the Constitution would be the one who dislikes the 6th Amendment:

Innocent in the eyes of the law does not mean no crime has taken place, and it loses all meaning where there is simply no will to enforce the law. Do you think the only crime Al Capone ever committed was tax evasion? The 6th Amendment simply puts the burden of proof on the prosecution. The FBI laid out its case and made it clear that Hillary broke the law. There was no defense because the corrupt attorney general refused to uphold the law. The fact remains that she's a criminal and her supporters are accessories because they helped her get away with it. You will never be charged with the crime, but you're just as guilty as the person who hid OJ Simpson's clothes and the knife.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

dgiharris said:
What you fail to grasp is the ramifications of a Clinton prosecution.

The rule of law being restored?

In order to govern effectively, occasionally rules get broken and mistakes are made.

Clinton was Secretary of State and nothing she did was to make the country better. Neither was it a mistake. She set up the private server to shield what she was doing from oversight. There was a conspiracy before there was a crime. Had she been a Republican she would be in prison for the next 20 years.

There is an unspoken rule among the leaders of each party to not go after the leaders of the other party when the power shifts.

Hillary was never IN power. Nobody is prosecuting Obama, though he was in on it from the beginning and communicated with her illegally.

When Bush and Cheney left office, how many Dems were screaming bloody murder to prosecute them for torture and violating the Geneva Convention and other crimes...

All the radical leftists.
The trouble with that is, only a small group of people are stupid enough to believe that the Geneva Convention applies to terrorists. Secondly, the methods of interrogation are used with our soldiers. Third, we only waterboarded three people; the masterminds of the 9/11 massacre. No jury would convict anyone who did ANYTHING to those monsters.

Same with prosecuting Clinton.

False.
Clinton was never president.
She is a career criminal who ONLY avoided perjury charges in the 90's because Ken Starr the corrupt media would accuse him of going after the wife because he couldn't get the husband. Her testimony then, as it would be later, was pure perjury.

For the sake of Argument, lets say Clinton is 100% guilty and there is a 100% smoking gun evidence against her. Even given all of that, the worst thing you could do would be to prosecute her and Trump knows it.

One of three things happen.
Hillary is prosecuted.
The espionage law is repealed and everyone convicted of it is set free.
I will work to elect whoever runs against Trump in four years.
A president who refuses to enforce the law is a crook. Just like Obama.

The country would not survive it.

The country may not survive unequal treatment under the law. Already people convicted of the espionage act are suing for release.

So at best, she will get some public shaming and a slap on the wrist (which she has already received) and that is the end of that.

No, the country is full of corrupt Democrats who would vote for her again no matter what. She HAS to lose her security clearance, she HAS to be convicted and she can NEVER hold office again.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

double post

tulc · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
double post

Seems to be happening a lot lately, everything ok? :wave:

tulc(always gets nervous when that stuff starts happening) :sorry:

Belk · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
It wasn't an issue at the founding, but it became one later. That's where the 3/5ths Compromise came in.

It was an issue at the founding which is why for 32 of the first 36 years the president was a white slave holder.

dgiharris · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
.... Had she been a Republican she would be in prison for the next 20 years..

Are you really going to make me list a bunch of shady stuff Republicans have gotten away. *sigh*. I know how this goes, I spend 30 minutes listing links, you won't read them or acknowledge I just crushed your point.

Both Dems and GOP have shady people or people that abuse the system or people in high positions that get away with crap normal people would not. That is such an obviously glaring truth it isn't worth my time showing it to you. If you are so delusional as to think that high ranking GOP types don't get away with stuff as well then I don't know what to say...

It is a problem on both sides of the isle

KWCrazy said:
....Hillary was never IN power. Nobody is prosecuting Obama, though he was in on it from the beginning and communicated with her illegally..

Being Secretary of State and front runner for President constitutes "In power" by any reasonable definition. She is in the top 10 of figures with political power in this country. Do you deny that?

don't quibble and don't lawyer this argument looking for loopholes.

There are plenty of people with tremendous political power:
John McCain
Bernie Sanders
HIllary Clinton

and what I'm arguing applies more or less to all of them...

KWCrazy said:
.The trouble with that is, only a small group of people are stupid enough to believe that the Geneva Convention applies to terrorists. Secondly, the methods of interrogation are used with our soldiers. Third, we only waterboarded three people; the masterminds of the 9/11 massacre. No jury would convict anyone who did ANYTHING to those monsters.

So much wrong in so short a post.

We "classified" anyone we caught on the Iraqi battlefield as a "terrorist". Newsflash, when a foreign country invades Iraq, any Iraqi citizen that seeks to fight that invading power is a patriot not a terrorist. We imprisoned and tortured tons of Iraqi citizens and we slapped the label of "Terrorist" on them so we could excuse not following the Geneva Convention. Similarly, being former military, I can tell you as a whole, we were disgusted when the truth came out. In fact, it was military members that leaked it because we wanted it to stop.

And if you think we only waterboarded 3 people... I Just don't know what to say to that...

KWCrazy said:
.....

One of three things happen.
Hillary is prosecuted.
The espionage law is repealed and everyone convicted of it is set free.
I will work to elect whoever runs against Trump in four years.
A president who refuses to enforce the law is a crook. Just like Obama.

The country may not survive unequal treatment under the law. Already people convicted of the espionage act are suing for release.

No, the country is full of corrupt Democrats who would vote for her again no matter what. She HAS to lose her security clearance, she HAS to be convicted and she can NEVER hold office again.

Look. I know you think the GOP is all red-white-and-blue and that "Corrupt Democrats" are "destroying the nation" yada yada yada. Truth is far from that. The bitter truth which both sides of the isle can't see is that there is very little if any difference between the political parties. They both lie cheat and steal. They are both hypocrites and they are both guilty of the crap they accuse the other of doing.

What Bush and Cheney and the entire administration did could easily be argued as War Crimes. It could. But we would never do so because that would weaken the office of the Presidency and undermine US credibility.

What you fail to grasp is the Reality of Politics in America. The truth is the law is not applied equally to all in this country, and this goes doubly so for politicians.

I think you are so immersed in your "Democrats are evil and incompetent" hate bubble that you just can't see how going after Hillary would destroy the country.

Think of the Blue Wall with Police. A police officer kills or hurts some innocent citizen and the entire police organization stands behind that officer and uses any and all logical fallacies, excuses, stretches of the imagination and benefits of the doubt to support that officer.

Now imagine that happening but instead of a police unit, instead you have every branch of government that has Democrats in it.

If we had a 5, 6, or 7 party system, maybe you could prosecute a high ranking politician. But we don't, we have a 2 party system. And the high ranking politicians are protected by the inherent flaws in our system.

If you go after Hillary, then next time Dems are in office they will go after a GOP member, then when the GOP is back in power they will go after a Dem and when the Dems are back in power they will go after a GOP... rinse and repeat until the country collapses.

I'm sorry you don't see it. But the truth is, Much like the Bush Administration, Clinton will get a pass on the dirt she did and mistakes she made.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

tulc said:
Seems to be happening a lot lately, everything ok?
tulc(always gets nervous when that stuff starts happening)

Server issue, I think. It freezes, then double posts.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

Belk said:
It was an issue at the founding which is why for 32 of the first 36 years the president was a white slave holder.

Most who came to America came as slaves for a time (indentured servants). Slavery as depicted in the movies came later when the North moved away from the need for field laborers and the southern states had to get much more aggressive to keep their slaves from escaping. Slaves were expensive. Only a small percentage of white people could afford them. Blacks were far more likely to own slaves. Only 1.8% of whites ever owned a slave, or 4.8% of southern whites. In Louisiana alone 28% of free blacks owned slaves.

KWCrazy · Mar 3, 2017

dgiharris said:
Both Dems and GOP have shady people or people that abuse the system or people in high positions that get away with crap normal people would not.

Then we should build new prisons and clean house. If I have to obey the law and pay taxes, so do they.

Being Secretary of State and front runner for President constitutes "In power" by any reasonable definition.

Had Obama enforced the law she never would have been a political candidate and you guys may have won. Possibly the only candidate worse than Trump was Hillary.

She is in the top 10 of figures with political power in this country. Do you deny that?

Not any more. She played her card and lost. Now she owes millions to the foreign interests who bought the influence she can't deliver.

There are plenty of people with tremendous political power:

If you think any of them should be above the law then you should surrender your voting rights.

We "classified" anyone we caught on the Iraqi battlefield as a "terrorist".

No, Bush used the term "enemy combatant."

Newsflash, when a foreign country invades Iraq, any Iraqi citizen that seeks to fight that invading power is a patriot not a terrorist.

The Iraqi citizens were empowered. We were fighting Jihadis and Iranians for the most part.

We imprisoned and tortured tons of Iraqi citizens

Liberal lie.
The Geneva Convention applies to uniformed soldiers fighting under orders of their government. The government of Iraq was an ally. The insurgents were traitors, terrorists and foreign mercenaries.

And if you think we only waterboarded 3 people... I Just don't know what to say to that...

The CIA admits to waterboarding three scumbags. They only waterboarded the worst of the worse....other than US soldiers in SERE training.

What Bush and Cheney and the entire administration did could easily be argued as War Crimes.

Another liberal lie.

Think of the Blue Wall with Police. A police officer kills or hurts some innocent citizen and the entire police organization stands behind that officer and uses any and all logical fallacies, excuses, stretches of the imagination and benefits of the doubt to support that officer.

In almost every case, after the media hypes up riots to sell newspapers, the facts come out that the police were justified. If the police break the law they need to pay; just like anyone else.

If we had a 5, 6, or 7 party system, maybe you could prosecute a high ranking politician.

The only politician who can't be prosecuted is a sitting president. However, once they are removed from office they can be charged. I have no use for an oligarchy, and neither did our founders.

If you go after Hillary, then next time Dems are in office they will go after a GOP member

They are now, with fake news.

Much like the Bush Administration, Clinton will get a pass on the dirt she did and mistakes she made.

The difference is, Hillary actually violated the law.

tulc · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Server issue, I think. It freezes, then double posts.

Ok, cool. I remember the crash from a few years ago seemed to start when there was a lot of that going around. :sigh:

tulc(does enjoy his time on CF)

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Mar 3, 2017

Nithavela said:
Of course Trump is able. he has the nuclear codes, after all.

You can't enslave a pile of ash.

Trump having the nuclear codes is a very scary thought.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Mar 3, 2017

I doubt trump cares enough to try to put an end to sex slavery.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Mar 3, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
Lots of people do not seem to have any trouble at all to believe that Trump is going to do what he says he is going to do. Lots of people are out protesting because they are worried that he is going to follow through with his promises.

Yes a lot of people are worried, that Trump and Pence are going to going to screw this country with their promises.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Mar 3, 2017

Trump is probably leaking things to friends, media or Twitter. And liberals are very smart, And are protesting. Because of Trump screwing the world up. As he promised. Also other crazy people are protesting because Trump made them mad. I don't see Obama trying to orchestrate protest or leaks. Just Trump trying to get his crazy followers to believe that.

Belk · Mar 3, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Most who came to America came as slaves for a time (indentured servants). Slavery as depicted in the movies came later when the North moved away from the need for field laborers and the southern states had to get much more aggressive to keep their slaves from escaping. Slaves were expensive. Only a small percentage of white people could afford them. Blacks were far more likely to own slaves. Only 1.8% of whites ever owned a slave, or 4.8% of southern whites. In Louisiana alone 28% of free blacks owned slaves.

What are you talking about? What dos this have to do with the fact that the electoral college was enacted as part of a compromise to the slave states?

crjmurray · Mar 3, 2017

Belk said:
What are you talking about? What dos this have to do with the fact that the electoral college was enacted as part of a compromise to the slave states?

It helps further some white people never did anything wrong, brown people are the true evil narrative?

joshua 1 9 · Mar 4, 2017

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
Yes a lot of people are worried, that Trump and Pence are going to going to screw this country with their promises.

Actually just the opposite is true. Trump and Pence are going to follow God and the Bible to the best of their ability. This is what is best for America. People clearly do not want what is best for them.

Donald Trump accuses Obama of orchestrating protests and leaks against him

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