FREEDOM FROM SABBATH-KEEPING

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

Re:
<<For all mankind>> I am not <<talking about ... all mankind>>. I'm talking about Israeli become Christians, lost through faith saved; not an a priori impossibility, saved through unbelief become unfaithful -- the former being brought under the New Covenant; the latter being brought under sway of their own desire and volition, under their own covenanting 'the old covenant'. God never made an 'old covenant' or 'covenant of works' or 'covenant of self-righteousness' the self-righteousness OF MAN, not of God.

Click to expand...

Then what you are saying here has bearing fro a goy.

bugkiller

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

God has no conditions for applying his Covenant of the Good News of Redemption in Christ through Christ for Christ's sake. He is mighty to save the clueless in John and Romans. But OK I get what you say.

Click to expand...

huh

bugkiller

ewq1938 said:

Jesus also broke the Sabbath without blame which means he had a moral reason to break it that meant he was not guilty of anything.

So yes, Christ and his disciples broke the Sabbath in multiple ways:

Traveling is forbidden on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), gathering is forbidden (Numbers 15:36), and not having enough food for two days is required so gathering food is two ways to break the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22) so that's three.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Jesus did break the Sabbath but he did so without blame. Christ gave two other examples of the Sabbath being broken without it being sinful as a further defense.

Click to expand...

So did the Pharisees and the scribes.
They broke too if we look at the literal sense.

It depends to what "the place" means? What is the definition of "the place"?
Some interpret it is his/her own house. Some interpret it is the length XX meters from his/her house. The technicalities and legal explanations of many religious commandments like above are discussed in the Talmud and its derivatives.

Yeshua (Jesus) followed the interpretation of House of Rabbi Hillel (Bet Hillel) in the case of plucking the ears of corn. Mercy is the main point of Hillel's interpretation of the Law. In other hand, strictness is the main point of Bet Shammai's interpretation.
Bet Hillel's interpretation is more liberal than Bet Shammai's.

I am sure the Pharisees in above case are of Bet Shammai.

smithed64 said:

There isn’t even one command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy.

Click to expand...

There isn't too even one command in the Gospel to condemn homosexuals.

heretoeternity1 said:

God's Holy seventh day Sabbath comes from Creation Genesis 2...God created the seventh day of the week as a day He rested, He blessed the day, and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes)..it is as much a part of Creation as we are. God changes not as per Malachi 3....
People get confused between the Mosaic law, the 600+ sacrificial, circumcision, feast, festival, food, cleanliness etc laws which Moses wrote, and which ended in Acts 15 with the exception of the four mentioned, and the law of God, the ten commandments, which God wrote Himself on the stone tablets Exodus 20...
1st day of the week (sunday) was a result of pagan based Roman system which came into being circa 323 AD. They changed the day without any Biblical authority, strictly by their own "divine authority"..
It is therefore not valid to a true Bible following Christian...

Click to expand...

I really find these types of posts offensive as a believer. Because first, we are worshipping God and making time out for Him. He cares about why we do what we do.

Romans 14:5
One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I just think it is plain that God wants us everyday. To be a part of our lives and that we walk in faith with Him.


But talking about why a day was instituted 1500 years ago, who cares. God says He does not care. "Let every man be persuaded in their own mind".

I hear all the people who say "we don't celebrate Christmas because that is not the day of Christ's birth". That is probably true, but the fact is that worldliness is taking over Christmas and we are the only ones who can bring God back into it. Not so much for me, but for the world and the light we are trying to shine.


Too much is made of this. We need to get back to serving God and not worry about what the world says.

AyeAyeCaptainJack said:

So did the Pharisees and the scribes.
They broke too if we look at the literal sense.

It depends to what "the place" means? What is the definition of "the place"?
Some interpret it is his/her own house. Some interpret it is the length XX meters from his/her house. The technicalities and legal explanations of many religious commandments like above are discussed in the Talmud and its derivatives.

Yeshua (Jesus) followed the interpretation of House of Rabbi Hillel (Bet Hillel) in the case of plucking the ears of corn. Mercy is the main point of Hillel's interpretation of the Law. In other hand, strictness is the main point of Bet Shammai's interpretation.
Bet Hillel's interpretation is more liberal than Bet Shammai's.

I am sure the Pharisees in above case are of Bet Shammai.

Click to expand...

I recently read about trolls again. Nice to refresh my memory.

bugkiller

Well, I'm a hard-working cop and crime doesn't take certain days off so any day I have off is my Sabbath when I have time to rejoice in the Lord and spend time in prayer.

Sometimes it's not Sundays when I get to go to church, but I make any time off Sabbath.

Times have changed, and any day can be the Sabbath as long as we understand and choose this, be in prayer, and go to Jesus. He knows. He has not been blind to changes here folks.

Hello all.

Is there anyone reading the posts on this thread, that believes Jesus was crucified and died on Thursday?

The account given in Luke contradicts a Thursday crucifixion.

Luke 23
44 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.

Jesus died at the ninth hour on the preparation day for the Sabbath.

Luke 23
52 this man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain. 54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Jesus was buried on that same preparation day for the Sabbath.

Luke 23
55 Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

The women rested on the Sabbath.

Luke 24
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb

At dawn on the first day of the week Jesus has risen.

Will anyone defend the idea of a Thursday crucifixion?

klutedavid said:

You think Jesus was crucified and died on Thursday?

The account given in Luke contradicts a Thursday crucifixion.

Luke 23
44 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.

Jesus died at the ninth hour on the preparation day for the Sabbath.

Luke 23
52 this man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain. 54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Jesus was buried on that same preparation day for the Sabbath.

Luke 23
55 Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

The women rested on the Sabbath.

Luke 24
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb

At dawn on the first day of the week Jesus has risen.

Tell me Gerhard, in the account given by Luke, where is this Thursday crucifixion?

Click to expand...

This Thursday crucifixion, is here, before where you declared on own authority, <<<Jesus died at the ninth hour on the preparation day for the Sabbath>>> in the account you reject the reality of given by four out of four Gospels in Mark 15:42 Luke 23:50 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31.

Does this account come before or after the Crucifixion?

Why do you OMIT Luke 23:50,51?

In order to pretend it does not exist so that it would SEEM Luke 23:52 on is just the continuation from 23:49 on!

Why do you OMIT Luke 23:47,48?

So that nobody can see "everybody LEFT and went back home" after Jesus had died and that NOBODY was near the cross UNTIL "EVENING HAD ALREADY COME" and "Joseph turned up there", so that you can paint a false picture of three hours ON FRIDAY afternoon between "the ninth hour" 3 p.m. and sunset 6 p.m. before the Sabbath. While in truth it was the Sixth Day of the week after Thursday, "EVENING COME the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath (which) had begun", the entire day of night and day of the Sixth Day BEFORE Joseph "mid-afternoon that day the Preparation the Sabbath approaching", would close the tomb.

Scripture fact, none of these Scriptures disappeared; they stand written still under the almighty protection of God whose Written Word they are.

NOTHING AND NO ONE will ever succeed, try or wish he how hard "to change Law and times OF GOD".

bugkiller said:

I wonder why no one was told about the Sabbath until Ex 16.

Click to expand...

Irony! I wonder why _you_ have not been told there is no Sabbath in Genesis 1:14-19, yet you gamble your whole life on it!
<<<

bugkiller said:

Why do you not understand "7th day" is not "Sabbath day"? The Sabbath kept these days is on the rolling 7th day of the Roman calendar. It is not the 7th day of the new moon calendar. Therefore the Sabbath and 7th day are different things.

Click to expand...

>>>

bugkiller said:

I wonder why no one was told about the Sabbath until Ex 16.

The narrative in Gen has no repetitive cycle.

Moses said in Ex 20:11 "wherefore" which means because. And since the new moon calendar has 30 days which is not divisible by 7 there is the new moon Sabbath and 7 days later there is a weekly Sabbath. This happens every month which is a brand new cycle.

According to my new moon calendar the weekly Sabbath would be on Thursday, maybe Friday in February. It changes to Saturday, maybe Sunday in March. In April it changes to Sunday, maybe Monday. In May it changes to Tuesday maybe Wednesday. I say maybe because one can chose the way the days are counted. The Sabbath is based on the new moon for cycles. Read the law.

It would be impossible for Passover to always be on the 14 day of the month (say a Tuesday for example) if the weekly cycle were a rolling cycle every 7 days because the new moon calendar has 30 days. Passover always occurs on the same week day of the new moon calendar. Week day 1 is always the first day of the week in the new moon calendar.

bugkiller

Click to expand...

Notice that I take note of your post including your name-signature. Because this will be my last reply to you, on your post, about your <<<...my new moon calendar the weekly Sabbath...>>> in-answerability so that I won't again be caught in fruitless nit-picking nonsensicalness unawares ever.

bugkiller said:

Read Deut 5. As a Christian I am not an Israeli unless it is my natural bloodline heritage. There is absolutely no indication in either Exodus or Deuteronomy the law was given to the whole world.

Click to expand...

Be what you like even while you don't like it, death reigns over EVERYONE including you.

bugkiller said:

Would you care to post the verse Paul said he became as a heathen to be adopted as a son?

What do you mean Israeli were not sinners? Where on earth do you get such an idea? It most certainly can not be the whole of Scripture.

bugkiller

Click to expand...

NO ONE will dispute with you if I do not dispute with you, and I am no longer going to allow you that pleasure or privilege or honour.

ToBeLoved said:

God says He does not care. "Let every man be persuaded in their own mind".

Click to expand...

When the Scripture says "every man", you say, <<God says He does not care>>.

Do you think that anyone is going to believe you, or God; unless you are God posting here?

SgtBen said:

Well, I'm a hard-working cop and crime doesn't take certain days off so any day I have off is my Sabbath when I have time to rejoice in the Lord and spend time in prayer.

Sometimes it's not Sundays when I get to go to church, but I make any time off Sabbath.

Times have changed, and any day can be the Sabbath as long as we understand and choose this, be in prayer, and go to Jesus. He knows. He has not been blind to changes here folks.

Click to expand...

I think you haven't seen yet, "SINCE JESUS entered into his own Rest as God in his own, and GAVE THEM REST, there for the PEOPLE OF GOD, has a Sabbath Rest Day been evinced", Jesus having RESURRECTED from the dead, on it.

The secret and the solution to the whole and to every facet of the mystery of the relation and correlation between God's Rest and "the Seventh Day God thus concerning spake, and GOD, the day The Seventh Day from all his works, RESTED", is solved, explained, fulfilled, and given all essence and substance IN JESUS CHRIST RESURRECTED THE ENTHRONED LORD AND KING of the People of God ... and, "of the Sabbath Day".

It's not for you or me or us to argue about days and stuff like our jobs; the Sabbath belongs to the Lord of the Sabbath Day. Let's rest assured in the fact.

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

When the Scripture says "every man", you say, <<God says He does not care>>.

Do you think that anyone is going to believe you, or God; unless you are God posting here?

Click to expand...

You took a piece of my post and put it out of context. Read the entire verse posted.

Na Nach Oi! said:

There isn't too even one command in the Gospel to condemn homosexuals.

Click to expand...

"You who is without sin cast the first stone". Homosexuality is an illness. Many are born with the disease. If Jesus had wanted it to be an issue He would have instructed the writers to write such. Allow God to do His job. We are not the judge.

Bob S said:

"You who is without sin cast the first stone". Homosexuality is an illness. Many are born with the disease. If Jesus had wanted it to be an issue He would have instructed the writers to write such. Allow God to do His job. We are not the judge.

Click to expand...

The judgement of God for homosexuals has been prescribed in the Torah. They should be put to death, by us. (Leviticus 20:13)

So is the adulterous woman. (Deuteronomy 22:22-24).

"If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die — the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you."

And there are procedural errors in the trial & execution of this adulterous woman.
1. Wrong intentions of perpetrators. The Pharisees et al. don't have intent to pursue justice, but they want to trap Jesus.
2. Only the adulterous woman presented in the trial. Her lover which should be stoned didn't present in that trial.

That makes the trial invalid and illegal.

In the end, we should thank God because His mercy triumps over His judgement. We deserve to be punished by punishment prescribed in the Torah, but in Him, we are made righteous --- not guilty anymore.

SAAN said:

If Jesus broke the Sabbath, that means he sinned and is not the Messiah.

Click to expand...

Jewish Messiah should be a 100% Torah Observant Jew, without transgression/blemish like a sacrificial lamb, including honoring the Sabbath.

Dishonoring the Sabbath is what an Anti-Messiah/Anti-Christ does.

Na Nach Oi! said:

The judgement of God for homosexuals has been prescribed in the Torah. They should be put to death, by us. (Leviticus 20:13)

Click to expand...

And if you believe you have to live by Torah so should you for breaking the Sabbath. Thank you Jesus for not ever demanding or even asking Christians to live by Torah. Thank you for nailing Torah to the Cross. Thank you that it is finished and that you ratified the new and better covenant with your own blood at Calvary

"If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die — the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you."

And there are procedural errors in the trial & execution of this adulterous woman.
1. Wrong intentions of perpetrators. The Pharisees et al. don't have intent to pursue justice, but they want to trap Jesus.
2. Only the adulterous woman presented in the trial. Her lover which should be stoned didn't present in that trial.

That makes the trial invalid and illegal.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your lesson on the old covenant. For sure Christians are not under Torah.

In the end, we should thank God because His mercy triumps over His judgement. We deserve to be punished by punishment prescribed in the Torah, but in Him, we are made righteous --- not guilty anymore.

Click to expand...

That judgment was for Israel alone. No other nation was subject to the laws given only to Israel at Sinai. Abraham was not held accountable for committing adultery because there was no law against such a thing. Not only did he take Hagar for a wife he held concubines. No law, no sin.

Since you think you are under the law do you indeed do what the law prescribes to all your flock? If not why are you here trying to convert Christians to go back to the ministry that brought death because no one is up to keeping it?