The Spirit of God and the Holy Ghost

St_Worm2 said:

Hi 2x4, I'm still confused about what you believe. You said earlier in this thread that true Christians are invisible. Does that mean you're invisible too?

You also tell us that the Bible is NOT the word of God, but then you quote it as proof that what you are telling us is true, even though you've said that the "truth" can only be received directly from God Himself.

So why quote the Bible at all then

Thanks!

--David

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The Word of God is the invisible Spirit of God that contains all the knowledge called Christ. Those of us servants who testify to this knowledge has to write words formed in our Mind so the writings of the prophets of old were used as prophecies. This is all that God needs to use to prove to us servants who are testifying during this millennium reign of Christ that our testimonies are true. We have to write many stories about the Beast of Daniel and Revelation that reveals what the Beast is and what it was necessary for humans to build false gods with their human hands. We also write the story about the day of the Lord destruction when all those false gods built with human hands are destroyed and burned up in hot molten lava along with the flesh of man.

So anyway, we servants then become the voice of God to speak to His chosen believers called the Gospel of God. The Gospel is the only source you can learn about the Beast and all the deep knowledge that is necessary to understand all the things hidden from man since the beginning when Adam and Eve were first experiencing life as one created man in the image of God.

So the scriptures came from the Word of God that we testify to but antichrists were used to add many of their religious traditions, laws and pagan doctrines which has deceived every reader of the Bible. This is why only God can use the Bible for His own purpose to prove to us servants that our testimonies are true.

The New Testament was written by antichrists who stole some writings of the servants of God and memorized some words they spoke. This is why the New Testament has very little knowledge about anything that we servants testify to. It has nothing about the Beast in them writings except the book of Revelation which is only understood by God because it's all written in symbolic form. There is no way at all for a reader of the Bible to understand the prophecies in Revelation without being used as a servant of God and become His voice.

2X4 said:

The religious Jews were content with their own understanding of the scriptures too until the first servant of God came around preaching the only Gospel of God that exists.

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As you indeed also seem to be content with your own understanding. For am content believing what has been taught for ages, passed down from His Apostles from Jesus and defended by faithful teachers for nearly two millennium.

Kenneth Redden said:

Wisdom and understanding in Proverbs 3:13 are referred to with the feminine pronoun, "she," in Proverbs 3:15 and "her," in Proverbs 3:16. I would conclude that wisdom, knowledge and understanding in Proverbs 2:6 is the HS because Proverbs 9:10 is a picture of Isaiah 11:2-3. Here the word, "LORD," for the Spirit of the "LORD," "the beginning," for "him," and "wisdom," "understanding," and "knowledge," for the same but with, "Spirit of God", in Exodus 31:3 and Exodus 35:31.

Thank you!

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The word Spirit in Hebrew is one of the few words can be treated as either masculine or feminine in Scripture. The following are several references where Spirit of the Lord is treated as masculine.





(2 Sam. 23:2 ESV) "The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me; his word is on my tongue.

(1 Ki. 22:24 ESV) Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "How did the Spirit of the LORD go from me to speak to you?"

(2 Ki. 2:16 ESV) And they said to him, "Behold now, there are with your servants fifty strong men. Please let them go and seek your master. It may be that the Spirit of the LORD has caught him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley." And he said, "You shall not send."

(2 Chr. 18:23 ESV) Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "Which way did the Spirit of the LORD go from me to speak to you?"

(Mic. 2:7 ESV) Should this be said, O house of Jacob? Has the LORD grown impatient? Are these his deeds? Do not my words do good to him who walks uprightly?


I think it is a mistake to equate Wisdom in Proverbs with "The Spirit of God." It is much more natural to see it as a simple personification.

benelchi said:

The word Spirit in Hebrew is one of the few words can be treated as either masculine or feminine in Scripture.The following are several references where Spirit of the Lord is treated as masculine.

(2 Sam. 23:2 ESV) "The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me; his word is on my tongue.

(1 Ki. 22:24 ESV) Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "How did the Spirit of the LORD go from me to speak to you?"

(2 Ki. 2:16 ESV) And they said to him, "Behold now, there are with your servants fifty strong men. Please let them go and seek your master. It may be that the Spirit of the LORD has caught him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley." And he said, "You shall not send."

(2 Chr. 18:23 ESV) Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "Which way did the Spirit of the LORD go from me to speak to you?"

(Mic. 2:7 ESV) Should this be said, O house of Jacob? Has the LORD grown impatient? Are these his deeds? Do not my words do good to him who walks uprightly?

I think it is a mistake to equate Wisdom in Proverbs with "The Spirit of God." It is much more natural to see it as a simple personification.

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I agree, πνεῦμα [pneuma] is always neuter as far as I know. However, when there are pronouns that describe πνεῦμα [pneuma], they are always masculine. Here are some examples:

benelchi said:

The following are several references where Spirit of the Lord is treated as masculine.

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Are there any references in the Bible where the Spirit is treated as "feminine" If so, I must have missed them, so please point them out.

Likewise, are there any instances in the Bible where the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost/Spirit of truth/etc. is described by feminine pronouns? The feminine pronouns that personify "wisdom" and "understanding" (i.e. Proverbs) do not count, obviously, because as you just pointed out, they do not refer to the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, either in or out of context.

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

Note: In Hebrew, it is frequently the verb, rather than a pronoun, that indicates the gender i.e. the gender of the verb matches the gender of the subject. In most of these examples there is no pronoun. The following are feminine examples:

(Jdg. 3:10 ESV) The Spirit of the LORD was upon him, and he judged Israel. He went out to war, and the LORD gave Cushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand. And his hand prevailed over Cushan-rishathaim.
(Jdg. 11:29 ESV) Then the Spirit of the LORD was upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manasseh and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites.
(Jdg. 13:25 ESV) And the Spirit of the LORD began to stir him in Mahaneh-dan, between Zorah and Eshtaol.
(Jdg. 14:6 ESV) Then the Spirit of the LORD rushed upon him, and although he had nothing in his hand, he tore the lion in pieces as one tears a young goat. But he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done.
(Jdg. 14:19 ESV) And the Spirit of the LORD rushed upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon and struck down thirty men of the town and took their spoil and gave the garments to those who had told the riddle. In hot anger he went back to his father's house.
(Jdg. 15:14 ESV) When he came to Lehi, the Philistines came shouting to meet him. Then the Spirit of the LORD rushed upon him, and the ropes that were on his arms became as flax that has caught fire, and his bonds melted off his hands.
(Isa. 11:2 ESV) And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
(Isa. 40:7 ESV) The grass withers, the flower fades when the breath of the LORD blows on it; surely the people are grass.

ETA:
The only examples of "Holy Spirit" that I can find in the OT are objects and not subjects and so I can't definitively determine the gender. " Spirit of Truth is something not found in the OT. Note: Spirit of God is always found in the feminine.

2X4 said:

The Word of God is the invisible Spirit of God that contains all the knowledge called Christ. Those of us servants who testify to this knowledge has to write words formed in our Mind so the writings of the prophets of old were used as prophecies. This is all that God needs to use to prove to us servants who are testifying during this millennium reign of Christ that our testimonies are true. We have to write many stories about the Beast of Daniel and Revelation that reveals what the Beast is and what it was necessary for humans to build false gods with their human hands. We also write the story about the day of the Lord destruction when all those false gods built with human hands are destroyed and burned up in hot molten lava along with the flesh of man.

So anyway, we servants then become the voice of God to speak to His chosen believers called the Gospel of God. The Gospel is the only source you can learn about the Beast and all the deep knowledge that is necessary to understand all the things hidden from man since the beginning when Adam and Eve were first experiencing life as one created man in the image of God.

So the scriptures came from the Word of God that we testify to but antichrists were used to add many of their religious traditions, laws and pagan doctrines which has deceived every reader of the Bible. This is why only God can use the Bible for His own purpose to prove to us servants that our testimonies are true.

The New Testament was written by antichrists who stole some writings of the servants of God and memorized some words they spoke. This is why the New Testament has very little knowledge about anything that we servants testify to. It has nothing about the Beast in them writings except the book of Revelation which is only understood by God because it's all written in symbolic form. There is no way at all for a reader of the Bible to understand the prophecies in Revelation without being used as a servant of God and become His voice.

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Interesting. Thanks

So in the case of the OT Scriptures you posited for us above, you are saying that because the verb that follows "The Spirit of God" in these particular cases is feminine, that makes "Spirit" feminine as well? (sorry, I know very little about Biblical Hebrew).

St_Worm2 said:

Interesting. Thanks

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Your welcome

Whoops, I added an additional comment.

I also noticed that the verb following "Spirit" in the OT can be masculine as well (i.e. Genesis 6:3). So "Spirit" can be both masculine or feminine in Hebrew depending on the referent verb. Why is it so? Are there any instances of the various words that are translated "God" or "Lord" in Hebrew that are followed by verbs of both genders that you know of?

Thanks again

St_Worm2 said:

Interesting. Thanks

So in the case of the OT Scriptures you posited for us above, you are saying that because the verb that follows "The Spirit of God" in these particular cases is feminine, that makes "Spirit" feminine as well? (sorry, I know very little about Biblical Hebrew).

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It isn't a matter of what follows or proceeds because in Hebrew the verb frequently proceeds the subject.

For example:

יתן האיש את הספר לאשה (gives - the man - [untranslated grammatical marker] - the book - to the woman)

תתן האשה את הספר לאיש (gives - the woman - [untranslated grammatical marker] - the book - to the man)

Remembering that Hebrew is read right to left, you should be able to match up the translation word for word to the Hebrew i.e. the - represent the break between "words" in the Hebrew text.

You can see that the verb לתת (to give) changes form when the subject is masculine (יתן) and when it is feminine (תתן).

Notes: unlike Greek, there is no neuter form.

St_Worm2 said:

I also noticed that the verb following "Spirit" in the OT can be masculine as well (i.e. Genesis 6:3). So "Spirit" can be both masculine or feminine in Hebrew depending on the referent verb. Why is it so? Are there any instances of the various words that are translated "God" or "Lord" in Hebrew that are followed by verbs of both genders that you know of?

Thanks again

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That is correct, and it is again determined here by the verb.

‎לא־ידון רוחי באדם לעלם (Not-will contend-my spirit-with man-forever)

if it were feminine it would be:
לא־תדון רוחי באדם לעלם

2X4 said:

No Christian understands what the Word of God is. They think it's a book with words in it.

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When you say, "no Christian" who are you referring to?

Kenneth Redden said:

Why of course not; we don't want to do anything to bring God out of the dark ages and into the future here with us today. We would rather prohibit Him from using science because of some silly hermeneutical fantasy and leave him in a box from the past and lost again.

Heaven Forbid! We have found no reason for disagreement in our discussion thus far, other than a matter of interpretation.

Please fellow Christians, in love with the Lord Jesus Christ; please give Paul's interpretation a better chance, before turning a blinded eye to it.
Amen...

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Pantheism was rejected long before it was called that - so this is hardly a case of modernizing Christianity with science or new thinking. And rejected for good reason.

So while such notions are giving some people happy feel good thoughts about being connected to everything and perhaps closer to "the planet", such thoughts are destructive to fundamental Christian teachings and bringing people closer to God.

jimmyjimmy said:

When you say, "no Christian" who are you referring to?

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Any flesh of man who calls itself a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, African, Norwegian, Latino, believer, unbeliever, etc. will perish during this generation. No flesh of man will make it to the next generation called the New Heaven and Earth. All flesh of man dies and on the day of the Lord, all the rest of the flesh of man ( inhabitants ) on earth will burn up in the Lake of Fire which is hot molten lava.

So ALL Christians will perish but whoever is "born again" in the Spirit of God has the potential of learning how they were created as man in the image of God called the Tree of Life before their flesh perishes.

I have met a few flesh of man who told me they were Christians but they were also truly "born again" in the Spirit of God so they could understand the words in Christ that I speak to them called the Gospel. Many Christians ( flesh of man ) tell me they are born again but when they start listening to the Gospel of God, they reject His Voice and go away confused and even angry. This tells me that they were not truly "born again" in the Spirit of God, also known as the Word of God.

Kenneth Redden said:

Okay; is that a form letter, or something? I do not know what Adam1/Adam2 talk is!?! You obviously don't get it, but I can help you. Briefly, here is a premise:
The King James Version of the Bible is the Holy Word of God, from the beginning to the ending, with all six days of creation in between.
There is but one interpretation in the KJV Bible, and that is the interpretation of days, as seen in Genesis 1. Any other interpretation is not recognized nor regarded, by this study.
And that is pretty much it. Now who, other than our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, can do that? Nobody.

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Says a man who doesn't know what a "man created in the image of God" means. The flesh of man has deceived all men since the beginning but only when the man wakes up to it's true reality ( born again experience ) of being totally invisible to the flesh of man called the MIND of MAN, or MIND of GOD, will they start experiencing peace and the Love of God known as the Word of God.

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Once you learn what MAN is, then you will know that YOU ( MAN ) and GOD are ONE. But until you are "born again", you will remain a believer in the Bible and your own interpretations of what you read in it no matter what version you read those words in.