Did Jesus tell us to follow Moses 10 commandments?

The first commandment that Jesus had for us was to "Believe in him whom he has sent". Faith is the first commandment. By faith, we know God's love and are able to love him in return and fulfill the law of the prophets which were 1. To love God above all things and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. He said that there is not law against these things. When the young man said that he fulfilled the law (The 10 commandments), he asked him a higher question. Did he love God more than money? The young man's heart was not fulfilling the most basic of God's requirements; Faith and love. Jesus did not teach the 10 commandments. He taught that even more was required. God wants us. True obedience comes from love.

Jesus talked about summing up all of the commandments. Be aware of teachings that exclude them from the equation.

Possibly the most important thing with regard to this discussion is COVENANT.

1. A covenant is made between two agents on behalf of those they represent
2. There are three types of ancient covenants: Grant, Kinship and Vassal (Suzerain) - look them up on google/wikipedia
3. The covenant between God and Abraham was a Grant covenant on behalf of all Abrahams descendants; faith was required of Abraham to be blessed; circumcision was a sign of the covenant
4. The Mosaic Covenant was a Kinship (later a vassal when the terms were modified with Joshua) covenant made between Moses and God; obedience to the law was required to be blessed; the Sabbath was the sign of the covenant
5. The New Covenant is a Grant covenant similar to Abraham's where again FAITH IS THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR BLESSING

Important: The New Covenant is NOT a continuation of the Mosaic Covenant. It is a New one. It is different.
Important: God's desire was a Grant covenant with the Israelites (read Exodus 19-20 and Deuteronomy 5) but the Israelites wanted Moses to speak to God on their behalf, to make laws and they would follow rather than listen to His voice; the Mosaic Covenant was not God's first choice for Israel; Jesus ended the Mosaic Covenant, as King of the Jews He had the right to end it. He also had the right to begin a New Covenant on behalf of humanity because He was human.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?

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Hello,

The Mosaic law was given because of transgression to reveal what sin is, without which we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7) and sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so if you believed that Jesus practiced what he preached, that he preached what he practiced, and that he set of perfectly sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the law, then you should believe that he taught obedience to the Mosaic law both by word and by example. Furthermore, we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 3:4), and that we should not do what God has revealed to be sin (Romans 6:15).

Andrewofthetribe said:

Thanks for your reply, was Moses a prophet ?

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Certainly:

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

Andrewofthetribe said:

We're the people around him under Jewish law? I always thought they were under roman law at that time.

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We are always under God's law, otherwise He would have no grounds by which to judge anyone, but during the time of Jesus the Jews had been conquered by the Romans, so they were also under Roman law. However, Jesus spoke mostly about the Mosaic law and came with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repenting from our disobedience to the Mosaic law is a central part of the Gospel message.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Does that mean he had received the keys of the kingdom then and he had authority to choose the laws?

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There is a world of difference between having the authority to countermand God and having the authority to interpret how God's laws should be obeyed. At Sinai, the people said that they didn't want to be instructed by God's voice, but rather they wanted God to speak to Moses and agreed to do whatever Moses said (Exodus 20:19, Deuteronomy 5:23-27), which God agreed to, so the authority to making rulings about how to walk out our obedience to God's law was given to Moses (aka the keys of the kingdom), but he was never given the authority to add to or subtract from God's law because that is a sin (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32).

Andrewofthetribe said:

Does this not mean Jesus might have only been talking about Jewish people? Could this mean the message wasn't really for non-Jewish people?

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Following Jesus is not only for the Jews.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?

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No! He was speaking to people under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant had not begun for He had not been crucified and raised. The old was all about people were to do and the promise was blessings of the land and long healthy physical life. The new is about what He has done for us and the promise is eternal life with Him for eternity.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?

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No! He was speaking to people under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant had not begun for He had not been crucified and raised. The old was all about people were to do and the promise was blessings of the land and long healthy physical life. The new is about what He has done for us and the promise is eternal life with

Deadworm said:

Jesus champions exceptions to Sabbath rest by His Sabbath healings and by the permission He gives for His disciples to gather grain on the Sabbath.

But it does mean that the 4th Commandment to honor the Sabbath can be replaced by Sunday worship in honor of "the Lord's Day," Easter Sunday.

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FALSE! The Sabbath has not been replaced. The Sabbath is not on Sunday. Healing on the Sabbath is not against Torah neither is the poor gleaning.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Does it matter which day we rest?

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What do the 10 Commandments say?

Andrewofthetribe said:

Rest on the 7th day?

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Is that an answer or a question. You can read...yes?

The 10 Commandments say, "Remember the Sabbath day."

I come from a working community, and sometimes people can't get to church on Sunday because they're towing cars and making a living otherwise.

But we all set aside one day to rest in faith and Him, and worship accordingly.

Jesus knows people have livelihoods.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Does it matter which day we rest?

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Under the Mosaic Covenant it mattered yes. Under the New Covenant there is spiritual rest in Jesus.

The New Covenant yields much more responsibility than the Mosaic Covenant. The Law was for children in the faith who didn't know right from wrong and didn't want to listen to God personally. But in the New Covenant we have that close communion with God. He speaks to our hearts and we listen - this is the new covenant, His word on our hearts daily, He writes His laws/directions on the tablet of our heart, not on tablets of stone. We need a soft heart of clay that is always willing to be molded by His direction and love. Not a heart of stone laws.

Yes. James 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

YouAreAwesome said:

Under the Mosaic Covenant it mattered yes. Under the New Covenant there is spiritual rest in Jesus.

The New Covenant yields much more responsibility than the Mosaic Covenant. The Law was for children in the faith who didn't know right from wrong and didn't want to listen to God personally. But in the New Covenant we have that close communion with God. He speaks to our hearts and we listen - this is the new covenant, His word on our hearts daily, He writes His laws/directions on the tablet of our heart, not on tablets of stone. We need a soft heart of clay that is always willing to be molded by His direction and love. Not a heart of stone laws.

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Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

"Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Check out the Hebrew Matthew on Youtube. Jesus directed the Jews to follow the law of Moses and not the Traditions of Men. Great video.

This quote is rather harsh.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

Andrewofthetribe said:

Very interesting! You seem to speak with a certain amount of authority. May I ask your background how do you know all this? How deeply are we grafted in do you think? Should we be worried?

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My theology comes from being involved in the Messianic Jewish movement for over fifteen years (and there are multiple expressions of that movement so it's not one size fits all) and being married to a Jewish wife (who isn't a believer) for over 30 years.

I've written many blog posts about all this (I don't want to spam this forum by inserting links, but I can upon request), but it boils down to the New Covenant language in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. The nations aren't mentioned, only Israel and Judah. We people of the nations are grafted in by the grace of Jesus, not because we're named members of the covenant, but because God is merciful and wants all to be saved.

Acts 15 further demonstrates His grace by not requiring non-Jewish disciples to observe all the Torah commandments but only a subset. In other words, we get all the benefits but have fewer obligations than Israel.

I don't hold myself up as an authority. I'm just someone who has studied a lot and I've been willing to consider non-conventional doctrine in my attempt to fathom the original intent and message of the Biblical authors.

jamespyles said:

My theology comes from being involved in the Messianic Jewish movement for over fifteen years (and there are multiple expressions of that movement so it's not one size fits all) and being married to a Jewish wife (who isn't a believer) for over 30 years.

I've written many blog posts about all this (I don't want to spam this forum by inserting links, but I can upon request), but it boils down to the New Covenant language in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. The nations aren't mentioned, only Israel and Judah. We people of the nations are grafted in by the grace of Jesus, not because we're named members of the covenant, but because God is merciful and wants all to be saved.

Acts 15 further demonstrates His grace by not requiring non-Jewish disciples to observe all the Torah commandments but only a subset. In other words, we get all the benefits but have fewer obligations than Israel.

I don't hold myself up as an authority. I'm just someone who has studied a lot and I've been willing to consider non-conventional doctrine in my attempt to fathom the original intent and message of the Biblical authors.

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I would like to read your blog, if you don't mind.