Do These Acts Break Commandments?

Soyeong

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Yeah I get that, I really do. It's just that, I'm not really looking for philsophy or theology here. Just nuts-and-bolts "by the book" information. Imagine if I asked "Why is adultery considered a sin?" everyone would point at a command in scripture reading "do no adultery" and I would reply "There it is; yes": do you understand what I mean? As far as I can tell, no one knows why (outside of personal value claims, or, a bit of 'reading into' explicit commandments e.g. 'lust is coveting' 'hypocrisy is taking the name of the Lord in vain'). No one is able to cite a command explicitly prohibiting the action.

The real question for me is, why is Paul listing things like 'fornication' and 'drunkards' if there's no commandment prohibiting them. Are we misunderstanding Paul? Is Paul using words in ways we're not aware? Does Paul's use of the word "sorcery" mean what we think it means? (Knowing Paul isn't speaking English; is his original use of the word in his own language meaning what it has come to us to mean?) Perhaps we may never know in this life; but I find the question - interesting.

1.)

Strong's Greek: 5331. φαρμακεία (pharmakeia) -- the use of medicine, drugs or spells

The Greek word "pharmakeia" means "magic, sorcery, enchantment" but it is also where we good the root word for "pharmacy", so I've seen people argue that that command prohibits the use of pharmaceutical drugs, but I think that is taking the connection too far. A command against using drugs to poison someone as was done with witchcraft, is not the same as using drugs to help heal someone. I have volunteered at a Christian counselling hotline and we received a lot of calls by people who had been completely messed over by the meds that they were on, so I think there can definitely be a spiritual component to some psychiatric drugs.

2.) The word translated as "fornincation" does not necessarily refer to sexual relations between unmarried people, but it refers to unlawful sexual conduct, which is all sexual conduct except that between a husband and wife.

3.) The Bible does not specifically prohibit gambling, but it does warn against the love of money and attempts to get rich quick.

4.) The Bible records the use of all kinds of instruments, but the only time that God rejected music was when it didn't come from the heart (Amos 5:23).

5.) There Bible also records a number of instances of dancing and Ecclesiastes 3:4 says that there is a time to mourn and a time to dance, so there can be times when it is appropriate or inappropriate to dance. However, dancing also can have a sexual aspect to it and we should be careful not do something that would cause others to sin (Matthew 18:6).

6.) See unlawful sexual conduct outside of that between a husband and wife.

7.) The Bible warns against witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10-16, Leviticus 19:26).

8.) The Bible warns against getting a tattoo (Leviticus 19:28), but there is the issue of whether or not it was referring to a specific pagan practice or to tattoos in general.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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All this talk about commandments is making me wonder about something. We can point at the ten commandments, and there they are. "Don't do this" "Do that": but what about a lot of other things that, seem to be viewed as "sinful"; I was wondering, where is the commandment for some of these? I'm going to go ahead and forgo the ten-thousand ton elephant in the room:

1. Drug use. Let's have this meaning, drugs like, alcohol, marijuana since these seem to be two big "that's sinful"s; but also putting in all manner of drugs from LSD to cocaine to, whatever the streets are hawking these days. Also, would we add drugs to this list? Not, drug drugs; but, drugs like from a pharmacy?

2. Fornication. This one gets people hopping mad at this "sin" but I don't see it on the ten commandments, so why is this a sin? Technically this word in scripture looks to mean "prostitution" but people seem to categorize it as relations prior to marriage; so I'm giving it its own place on the list.

3. Gambling. Sinful breaking of a commandment?

4. Musical instruments in the church service?

5. Dancing?

6. Prostitution?

7. What about occult practitioners? Here I mean, people who are professing Christians who practice "magick" (yes, with a "k"; it's ridiculous, I know but that's how they spell it). All of their occult rituals are all "in the name of Christ" and they call it "Christian white magick": I presume this can get people stomping mad at sin, but where is the commandment?

8. Tatoos and piercings? Is this a sinful practice?

That's all I can think of right now. Let me be clear in case anyone jumps the gun here; I'm not advocating any of this, I'm wondering where the commandment to not do these things is at? This is a sincere question. It's that I'm looking at the ten commandments and wondering now if I actually break any commandments. The only one that looks "ify" to me is "adultery" but that only in application to Jesus further adding that, even lusting is an act of adultery. But, then again, I'm not married so, can I even commit adultery by lusting? Or, would I have to have a wife to be commiting "mental adultery"?

Excellent question.

The Ten Commandments DO NOT sum up morality. They were given to the Israelites for specific reasons e.g. when was the last time you were tempted to worship an idol? I have NEVER been tempted to worship a "graven image". But the Israelites were, so God gave them a law against it. Every decision of morality is to be weighed according to the law of love. So here's my answers according to the culture I live in (Australia):

1. Drug use. Why am I taking a drug? Medical use=fine. All other drugs seems to have negative implications on health (including mental), whether short or long term. Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Therefore recreational drug use=sin.

2. Fornication. Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. The person we engage with sexually, we join to in spirit. Sex (including sexual foreplay; anything beyond kissing/holding hands) is to only be with our long term marriage partner and no-one else.

3. Gambling. As long as one has good bankroll management and only gambles with "recreational money". If it negatively impacts on family or adds financial stress, it should be removed.

4. Musical instruments in the church service? Awesome. There is no evil music, only evil lyrics. Music for worship should evoke a desire to worship within the particular culture it is being created for.

5. Dancing? Excellent. David danced before the Lord.

6. Prostitution? See point 2. Sin.

7. What about occult practitioners? I'm not familiar with this. The word "occult" usually means bondage to something though.

8. Tattoos and piercings? All good, though I don't have any myself. I've always felt a little uncomfortable about it, but I think it's how I was raised rather than it being a "sin".
 
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John Hyperspace

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1.)

Strong's Greek: 5331. φαρμακεία (pharmakeia) -- the use of medicine, drugs or spells

The Greek word "pharmakeia" means "magic, sorcery, enchantment"

Okay I'm not sure it actually means that. When you see the definition "magic, sorcery, enchantment" that definition is coming from the translation of the word, and it's not necessarily anymore correct a definition than the translation itself (more on this at 2). The main use of one of "medicine" or "drugs (including those from a pharmacy)", and not actually "Harry Potter wizardry" as "seen on TV". But, the question is, in what context? Is there one? Is it talking about use of drugs in idol worship? Just general drug use? Medicine in general? Is it "sinful" and if so, by what actual commandment?

but it is also where we good the root word for "pharmacy", so I've seen people argue that that command prohibits the use of pharmaceutical drugs, but I think that is taking the connection too far.

Is it "too far"? How do we determine this. I believe a case could be made that this "sorcery/pharmacy drugs" is specifically targeting drugs from a pharmacy, and not general drug use for "ephoria" at all. This is because we have stories about people seeking medical treatment for ailments, instead of relying on the Lord for healing; and this is what was the "problem" the lack of faith in God being demonstrated by the pill-takers. 2 Chronicles 16:12, Luke 8:43

Now wouldn't this be something? If the scripture is actually speaking about pharamacy drugs and seeking relief from doctors; and not talking about people smoking marijuana at all? I wonder, how many people who have said "sinful!" about a guy smoking marijuana day after day, would take the news that their pharamcy drugs are the real focus of the scripture? Do you think all of the people taking prescription pills and such would "repent" and stop? I wonder.

A command against using drugs to poison someone as was done with witchcraft

I've read that as well, I'll note this later in the "occult" entry.

2.) The word translated as "fornincation" does not necessarily refer to sexual relations between unmarried people, but it refers to unlawful sexual conduct, which is all sexual conduct except that between a husband and wife.

But the Greek word itself means "harlotry" coming from the root "to sell"; so when you're seeing a definition for "inappropriate contenteia" that says "unlawful sexual acts between unmarried people" it is really circular definitions: it's defining the word according to the way it's translated, and, often as it means in contemporary language; while that may not be the intended use at all. It looks to me to be specifically meaning "harlotry" as in "selling sex for money" but even then, it could be talking specifically about pagan temple prostitution; the word "fornication" itself coming from "fornax" meaning, temple prostitutes. I can't be certain, can you?

But the real question is, where is the commandment specifically prohibiting the act? If there's no commandment, how can it be "sinful" since sin is the breaking of a commandment? Bear in mind, I'm not saying, going around having relationships is an edifying act, but, is it sinful? Are we having to "backward engineer" commandments now? Why wouldn't God make this clear with a "do no sex except in marriage" commandment? Could it not also be that Paul is speaking out against acts that, while not sinful in and of themselves, can cause harm and sorrow if indulged in recklessly?

There's too many factors in here that cause me, personally, from saying "it's a sin" because, how can a person judge such matters with so little clarity, and having to "backward engineer" sin out of statements which have no "do not do such" explicitly stated? Even the "clear" ones sometimes aren't clear. "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain" is not really that clear of a command.

3.) The Bible does not specifically prohibit gambling, but it does warn against the love of money and attempts to get rich quick.

Well, I presume that would cover stockmarket portfolios, investings, and all manner of, trying to make money from nothing. Even getting a job could be seen by some as love of money. When there's no explicit command, what are we doing? Slippery sloping into "it's all sin all day every day"?

4.) The Bible records the use of all kinds of instruments, but the only time that God rejected music was when it didn't come from the heart (Amos 5:23).

Well, many Christians would disagree. They say that "faith comes by the Word of God" and "what is not of faith is sin" and then say "under the new covenant, God commanded us to sing, but made no statement concenring playing instruments; thus those who play instruments are guilty of unrepentant sin and will burn": if you say "David played instruments" they will say "David is old covenant; David killed people and was a bloody man, should we do the same?" Trust me, I was one of these people for a long time. I was as Pharisitic as you could get. If you would've encountered me twenty years ago, right now I'd be telling everyone on this forum how they were "all false Christians, in willful ignorance and unrepentant rebellion against the commandments, and were all going to burn in hell for all of time; and all of your faith is in vain." Oh and when you said "But I love God and confessed Christ" I would've said "You do not love God else you would come out of your willful disobedience and come join my church; the only true church; but if you will not listen to me, then God will send you to hell" "But just because we have musical instruments in our services?" and I would bellow "SINNER! You will burn in the fire of the omnipotent and just wrath of the Holy God, whose divine justice cannot turn a blind eye to your willful musical playings; justice demand you burn forever for playing your instruments during worship! REPENT!"

Now, I no longer am that, but the point really is still there.

5.) There Bible also records a number of instances of dancing and Ecclesiastes 3:4 says that there is a time to mourn and a time to dance, so there can be times when it is appropriate or inappropriate to dance. However, dancing also can have a sexual aspect to it and we should be careful not do something that would cause others to sin (Matthew 18:6).

These people claim all dancing can incite lust, and is therefore "sinful": there are a number of little old ladies that condemn people who play the electric guitar because the sound is "sinfully lust inspiring": so if we're just going by opinions of what is and isn't "lustful"; why is everyone ignoring the little old ladies on the front bench and burning their saxophones and electric guitars, and abstain from dancing that devlish "lustful movement" which is the "appearence of evil"? Do you realize I missed prom because of how sinful it is? You don't even want to know about how sinful a woman wearing anything but a very long dress is. Or, how sinful and rebellious and shameful is a man with long hair, or, a woman with short hair.

6.) See unlawful sexual conduct outside of that between a husband and wife.

I don't know; the word looks to me to mean "harlotry"; I'm just saying. And I don't even see a command "do no harlotry": I know we should cry out "But harlotry has to be sinful!" but I'd have to ask, if it's so sinful: why isn't it on the ten commandments somewhere? You would think "Wow that is a sin!" would be able to point at a "do no such thing" explicit commanment, would you not?

7.) The Bible warns against witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10-16, Leviticus 19:26).

Again, that word being translated. I'm not so sure "witchcraft" is meaning what we think it means today. I know it's debatable whether or not this really means, someone who makes poisons for the intent of killing people. A poison maker. It could also men, someone who uses drugs to give to people, causing hallucinations and such to pass of to people that they have "powers from God" in order to deceive them. These words are not as cut-and-dry as people are thinking that they are. Also, if we're back at the 364(?) commandments, are we preaching all of it as "sinful" such as the old, no mixed weave in garments: no wearing men's clothing for women, etc.?

8.) The Bible warns against getting a tattoo (Leviticus 19:28), but there is the issue of whether or not it was referring to a specific pagan practice or to tattoos in general.

I'd ask the same as above, about the clothing commandments; but this also spotlights what I was saying above about the ambiguity of many of these things. Just as this tatooing may have been putting pagan practies off-limits to curb idolatry; the same can be said of many of the things above. Fornication may be talking about a specific pagan form of temple prostitution, etc.
 
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SteveCaruso

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By the way, if you're the same man; I still have your Aramaic interlinear (or, what was completed of it): it was a good work; I still use it when comparing Aramaic scriptures.
Wasn't me. I am opposed to interlinear translations because people always misinterpret them owing to syntactic dissimilarity. Instead I encourage everyone with questions about Aramaic to ask @SteveCaruso.

John, you're thinking of Paul Younan. :)
 
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SkyWriting

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I suppose even the ten commandments, such as someone above brought up what they supposed the commandment "do not take the name of the Lord in vain" what does that really mean?

It seems to me the clear ones are, "do no murder", "do no false witness", "do no stealing", "do no adultery"? Maybe?

They are all summed up below------>
 
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Vicomte13

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Let's start by clarity. The Ten Commandments were part and parcel of a contract between YHWH and the specific people he brought out of Egypt. Those commandments, and the various other contractual terms given at Sinai, were the terms of a contract - if you obey these commandments, I will give you (in particular, you ex-slaves standing here before this mountain, and your circumcised lineal descendants, and nobody else) a farm and security in a particular, small, bounded piece of land to which I am leading you. And if you don't, I will throw you out of that land and beat you back down.

That is the Ten Commandments.

Christians have bootstrapped them into a law for the world. This is error.

The commandments WE have to listen to are the moral commandments given by Christ. God said from the sky "Listen to HIM" and "Follow HIM", and HE said "What good does it do you to say you follow me if you don't keep MY commandments?"

So, enough with the Ten Commandments. They do not apply to you, and they never did. If you want to know what God demands of YOU, read the four gospels carefully, and note each place that Jesus gave a moral precept. And as you do that, remember that HE was speaking to Jews in Israel while the Temple was still up, so he was using their frame of reference - the Law of Moses. He was NOT extending the Law of Moses to cover all mankind, merely speaking to them in the language they knew. HIS Commandments, which are quite DIFFERENT from the Ten that got Israelites a farm, are for all mankind. HIS commandments are what gets you a room in the City of God after the resurrection. The Ten Commandments never promised eternal life or final judgment, just a farm, to just those Jews there at Sinai and their circumcised, lineal descendants.

Christians have been getting this wrong since the First Century. THAT is what Paul means when he says that you are not under The Law. He was a Pharisee. The Law to a Jew, and particularly a Pharisee, means "The Law of Moses", specifically THAT, and absolutely NOT "all law in general". There is a law of Christ, and if you don't obey THAT law (including the part that tells you how to be forgiven if you break it), you will not pass final judgment. If you do, you will. The Ten Commandments are completely superfluous, completely irrelevant, and do not apply to you. They are very deceptive, in the sense that they confuse Christians terribly - what to DO with all of that Old Testament? The answer is that you read it as a case study, but NOT as a lawbook for anybody anymore - because it isn't.

Read the Gospels - and ONLY the Gospels, and Revelation, and Acts - looking for the law in those that came from Jesus - that is where you will find what is legal and what is sin, and also what to do about sin. It's an entirely different system than the Torah and the Ten.

Some aspect of the Ten is included in what Jesus says, but Jesus transforms it. Example: under the Torah, to break the Sabbath was death. But Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for men, not men for the Sabbath".

If you're listing "do's" and "don'ts" the key to the whole thing is to love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others as you would have done unto you, love God above all - and if you fail in any of those things, that God will forgive you only to the extent that you forgive other men. Jesus said that you will be measured by God using the yardstick you used to measure others. So, if you want to be assured of heaven, be kind and forgive everybody else everything they've done. Then you have nothing to worry about. If you try to do it some other way, so that you don't have to be kind and generous and you can be judgmental, and you don't have to forgive others, you are digging a death pit for yourself before your own feet.

That's the truth.
 
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dqhall

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Laws against adultery should prevent a man from abandoning his wife and children and moving across town to marry another woman and start having children with her. This does not mean it is acceptable for unmarried partners to indulge in promiscuity and change intimate partners. Paul wrote numerous letters and wrote against fornication, even though his exact words were not from the Bible of his day, this teaching against prostitution, inappropriate content and promiscuity is righteous. Jesus said adultery is wrong and it is wrong to have lust for another.

Peter wrote against wearing jewelry (1 Peter 3:3) as he may have considered it a vain waste of resources. Body piercings and tattoos are changes in external appearances. I would not purchase such things, nor advise others to purchase them. My lady friend might want an engagement ring. I might not be able to refuse.

You may find wise people were against drunkenness and such wisdom may be found in the Bible and outside of the Bible. Using illegal narcotics can be a health risk and risk to public safety. Your body should be a pure and clean temple: not polluted by tobacco, pot, heroin, stimulants, tranquilizers, excess alcohol etc.
 
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All this talk about commandments is making me wonder about something. We can point at the ten commandments, and there they are. "Don't do this" "Do that": but what about a lot of other things that, seem to be viewed as "sinful"; I was wondering, where is the commandment for some of these? I'm going to go ahead and forgo the ten-thousand ton elephant in the room:

1. Drug use. Let's have this meaning, drugs like, alcohol, marijuana since these seem to be two big "that's sinful"s; but also putting in all manner of drugs from LSD to cocaine to, whatever the streets are hawking these days. Also, would we add drugs to this list? Not, drug drugs; but, drugs like from a pharmacy?

2. Fornication. This one gets people hopping mad at this "sin" but I don't see it on the ten commandments, so why is this a sin? Technically this word in scripture looks to mean "prostitution" but people seem to categorize it as relations prior to marriage; so I'm giving it its own place on the list.

3. Gambling. Sinful breaking of a commandment?

4. Musical instruments in the church service?

5. Dancing?

6. Prostitution?

7. What about occult practitioners? Here I mean, people who are professing Christians who practice "magick" (yes, with a "k"; it's ridiculous, I know but that's how they spell it). All of their occult rituals are all "in the name of Christ" and they call it "Christian white magick": I presume this can get people stomping mad at sin, but where is the commandment?

8. Tatoos and piercings? Is this a sinful practice?

That's all I can think of right now. Let me be clear in case anyone jumps the gun here; I'm not advocating any of this, I'm wondering where the commandment to not do these things is at? This is a sincere question. It's that I'm looking at the ten commandments and wondering now if I actually break any commandments. The only one that looks "ify" to me is "adultery" but that only in application to Jesus further adding that, even lusting is an act of adultery. But, then again, I'm not married so, can I even commit adultery by lusting? Or, would I have to have a wife to be commiting "mental adultery"?

Intro Summary:
There are more than just the 10 Commandments given to Israel (at one point in history). Also, there are two Covenants or Testaments God made with man. The first covenant was given to the early patriarchs and then to Israel (i.e. the Old Testament). The second covenant was made with both Israel and the Gentiles (i.e. the New Testament). Each Covenant (or Testament) given by God (that was made in blood) has it's own respective laws or commands (i.e. Commandments) that are unique to themselves. Nobody can follow or keep both the Old Testament Laws and the New Testament Laws. It would be impossible because many of these Laws confict with each other.

At one time in the past for Israel (not the Gentiles): There were 615 Commands (or Laws) in the Old Covenant (or Old Testament) and not just the 10 Commands given to Israel at Mt. Sinai. This is also known as the Torah or the five books of Moses. With the exception of the story of Jonah, generally a Gentile had to become a Jew and join the nation of Israel so as to be right with God.

However, if for some reason you do not believe there are not more than 10 Commandments, the Scriptures plainly tell us otherwise. For Deuteronomy is called a book of the Law.

"And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:" (Deuteronomy 29:21).
And an altar of stones was commanded to be built by God as mentioned as being within the book of the Law of Moses.

"As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings." (Joshua 8:31).
However, just so that there is no confusion here, in the Old Testament:
The saints were justified by faith just as we are justified by faith today (See Hebrews 11). In addition, the saints in the Old Testament were also born again and abided in the Lord which is also true for New Testament saints, as well (See my CF thread here to check out the Scripture verses that show how OT saints were born again).

Furthemore, it needs to be pointed out that the breaking of God's Commandments or Laws is defined as sin in Scripture (1 John 3:4); And sin existed even before the written Law was given to Moses.

Scripture says Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. At first glance, the moral law appears to have been carried over into the New Covenant (like do no murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc.); However, even God's moral laws are not exactly the same in the New Testament (compared to the Old) because the Lord's moral laws today are no longer attached with death penalties (See this article link here to check out a list of capital crimes in the Old Testament). However, while Jesus did keep the Old Law perfectly, He was also making changes to the Law, too. For Jesus said to turn the other cheek instead of an eye for an eye. Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in the act of adultery. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn. Meaning, the Law that required the animal sacrifices was no longer binding or acceptable. Jesus is now our perfect sacrifice. The priesthood order of Aaron has been disolved or fulfilled in Christ. Jesus is now our Heavenly High Priest (of a new priesthood order). We go to Christ as a mediator and not a physical priest. There are no more Levites. Also, after Christ's death, Peter had a vision from God that he could now eat unclean animals. This a direct violation of OT Law. In addition, Paul says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Yet, Abraham and his following generations were commanded by God to be circumcised (Genesis 17:9-14), which is also commanded in the Law (See Exodus 12:48-49, Leviticus 12:3). So the choice is you either obey all of the Laws in the Old Covenant or you obey all the Laws in the New Covenant. Hebrews 9:16-17 says,

16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Hebrews 9:16-17).
A testament is like a will and testament that you would make so as to give an inheritance to your loved ones if you were to die or pass on. That will and testament would not go into effect until after you die. Meaning, your loved ones would not receive your inheritance until you are deceased. It is the same with Jesus. When He died upon the cross, the Old Testament no longer had any enforcement anymore and the New Covenant or will and testament took it's place. We would not have the full benefits of the New Covenant until after Christ had died.

This makes sense because we are under a different Covenant. Jesus said, no man puts new wine into old wine skins.
Conclusion:
While all believers thru out time are ultimately saved by the Messiah (Christ Jesus), and are justified by faith in Him, believers today look to the New Testament Laws and Commands in order to obey God and they do not look to the Old Testament. Keeping God's laws is simply a natural progression or necessary step of a believer's faith (Which was true for both believers of the Old Covenant and believers of the New Covenant).


...
 
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Widlast

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1. Drug use.
To promote health (medicine) - Good.
To destroy health (heroin) - Sinful
There are quite a few drugs that can be used recreationally with no real harm to the individual, but most lead to trouble.
Side note, the lack of self control produced by drugs usually leads to trouble.

2. Fornication.
6. Prostitution?
That's covered repeatedly in scripture. DO NOT have sex with anyone other than your spouse. End of discussion.

3. Gambling. Sinful breaking of a commandment?
Again, there are some who can gamble recreationally, most cannot.
Basically it is wasting resources that could be used for better things, such as feeding the poor.

4. Musical instruments in the church service?
5. Dancing?
Only sinful if you are Baptist. ;)

7. What about occult practitioners?
The OT mentions several times, no diviners, or people who talk to spirits, etc.

8. Tatoos and piercings? Is this a sinful practice?
The "what" of body ornamentation is not a sin. But the "why" may well be.
Why do you wish to mutilate your body? When is it not a childish attempt to offend their parents?
A Marine Corp tattoo is one thing, but nose rings? Who thinks that is stylish?
Might as well file your teeth and put a bone in your nose.

Jesus covered the lusting after others thing. Lusting is lusting whether you are married or not. Don't.
 
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What New Testament Commands or Laws do believers under the New Covenant today obey?

Here is a website that has listed 1,050 of them.

1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International

Please take note that some of these commands are repeated.

The only commands that I did not see on their list is the following:

  • Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)
  • Visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction (James 1:27).
  • Feed and clothe the poor, welcome the stranger, visit the sick, and those in prison (Matthew 25:35, 36).
  • "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor" (Matthew 19:21)
  • Receive the word of God not as the words of men, but as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
  • Give to the poor needy brother; Especially if you wish them well (James 2:15)
  • Walk in the Spirit: This will result in the 9 fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5)
  • How to love according to 1 Corinthians 13.
  • Live by speaking the Word of God (Which is our daily bread) (Matthew 4:4)

I am sure there are more (of course).


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In addition, it needs to be pointed out that the Saturday Sabbath Command did not carry over into the New Testament, too. Therefore, it is no longer binding. For Paul says some regard all days the same and others regards one day over another. We are then told to be convinced in our own minds in how we regard the Sabbath (Romans 14:5). Paul also says we are not to judge in relation to Sabbaths, too (Colossians 2:16).

Furthermore, the moral laws today are no longer attached with death penalties anymore, as well. So the 10 Commandments given to Moses at Mt. Sinai do not exist in the same exact way as it did under the Old Covenant. It's why Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. In other words, Christians look to the New Testament Commands to obey God and they do not look to the Laws in the Old Testament.


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1. Drug use. Let's have this meaning, drugs like, alcohol, marijuana since these seem to be two big "that's sinful"s; but also putting in all manner of drugs from LSD to cocaine to, whatever the streets are hawking these days. Also, would we add drugs to this list? Not, drug drugs; but, drugs like from a pharmacy?

Taking drugs for social reasons is a direct violation of Scripture because God commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV).

The moment you take drugs of any kind whether it be alcohol or pot, you are less sober minded than when you did not have such drugs in your system. Veritably, it is a fact that when driving a car, your reaction time is slowed when you have taken a little bit of alcohol or drugs. This means you are putting at risk other people lives when you are on the road (not to mention your own life, as well).

John Hyperspace said:
2. Fornication. This one gets people hopping mad at this "sin" but I don't see it on the ten commandments, so why is this a sin? Technically this word in scripture looks to mean "prostitution" but people seem to categorize it as relations prior to marriage; so I'm giving it its own place on the list.

God condemns sexual fornication many times within the New Testament.
Click on the following website link:

Blue Letter Bible

John Hyperspace said:
3. Gambling. Sinful breaking of a commandment?

Check out this website for a list of verses that runs contrary to gambling:
What does the Bible say about gambling and the lottery?

John Hyperspace said:
4. Musical instruments in the church service?

5. Dancing?

There are no prohibitions on using musical instruments or in dancing in either the Old or New Covenants involving the worship of God and giving the glory to Him.

John Hyperspace said:
6. Prostitution?

Really? You need an actual verse for this one to tell you it is wrong?

Anyways, Hebrews 13:4, Matthew 5:28-30, and 1 Corinthians 6:15-16 clearly condemns prostitution.

John Hyperspace said:
7. What about occult practitioners? Here I mean, people who are professing Christians who practice "magick" (yes, with a "k"; it's ridiculous, I know but that's how they spell it). All of their occult rituals are all "in the name of Christ" and they call it "Christian white magick": I presume this can get people stomping mad at sin, but where is the commandment?

Again, do you really need a verse to tell you that this is wrong?

In any event, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8, and Revelation 22:15 clearly condemns sorcery.

John Hyperspace said:
8. Tatoos and piercings? Is this a sinful practice?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17, and 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 says we are not to defile our temples (i.e. bodies). This would sort of be like spray painting artwork and gang signs upon God's holy temple in heaven. I mean, do you let your kids spray paint on your house walls? We are made in the image of God. Why would you want to defile that?


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NothingIsImpossible

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In the end we are all taught many things, but I think its best to pray for forgiveness even if you think what you did is not a sin. Like smoking weed, I think its a sin and people should pray for forgiveness. But thats just my view. Better to be safe then to get to heaven and God be like "Why did you not pray for forgiveness on <insert issues>?".
 
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..., I'm not married so, can I even commit adultery by lusting? Or, would I have to have a wife to be commiting "mental adultery"?

I don’t think it is necessary to use word sin. I think all those things are unwise and it would be better not to do those, because it can be harmful. anyway, here are some Biblical scriptures that tell they are not good.

1. Drug use
So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly.
Luke 21:34

1. 2. 6. 7. Fornication, drug use, prostitution, occultism,
Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Gal. 5:19-21
Don't profane your daughter, to make her a prostitute; lest the land fall to prostitution, and the land become full of wickedness.
Lev. 19:29


8. Tattoos and piercings

You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 19:28

If you love God, you don’t do thing that are against His will.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And about the adultery, you don’t need to be married to commit adultery, because that can happen, if you desire someone else’s wife.
 
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All this talk about commandments is making me wonder about something. We can point at the ten commandments, and there they are. "Don't do this" "Do that": but what about a lot of other things that, seem to be viewed as "sinful"; I was wondering, where is the commandment for some of these? I'm going to go ahead and forgo the ten-thousand ton elephant in the room:

1. Drug use. Let's have this meaning, drugs like, alcohol, marijuana since these seem to be two big "that's sinful"s; but also putting in all manner of drugs from LSD to cocaine to, whatever the streets are hawking these days. Also, would we add drugs to this list? Not, drug drugs; but, drugs like from a pharmacy?

2. Fornication. This one gets people hopping mad at this "sin" but I don't see it on the ten commandments, so why is this a sin? Technically this word in scripture looks to mean "prostitution" but people seem to categorize it as relations prior to marriage; so I'm giving it its own place on the list.

3. Gambling. Sinful breaking of a commandment?

4. Musical instruments in the church service?

5. Dancing?

6. Prostitution?

7. What about occult practitioners? Here I mean, people who are professing Christians who practice "magick" (yes, with a "k"; it's ridiculous, I know but that's how they spell it). All of their occult rituals are all "in the name of Christ" and they call it "Christian white magick": I presume this can get people stomping mad at sin, but where is the commandment?

8. Tatoos and piercings? Is this a sinful practice?

That's all I can think of right now. Let me be clear in case anyone jumps the gun here; I'm not advocating any of this, I'm wondering where the commandment to not do these things is at? This is a sincere question. It's that I'm looking at the ten commandments and wondering now if I actually break any commandments. The only one that looks "ify" to me is "adultery" but that only in application to Jesus further adding that, even lusting is an act of adultery. But, then again, I'm not married so, can I even commit adultery by lusting? Or, would I have to have a wife to be commiting "mental adultery"?
John, I could go point by point.. but instead I think a better way to address your comments would be to say that when you study the law (gasp) we find that most commandments cannot be kept by most. Even if Jesus was alive, he couldn't keep all the commandments (double gasp). The reason is that some commandments are specifically for priests (Levitical) and even when he was here, those commandments didn't apply to Jesus. Some commandments are tied to us being in the land, or tied to the Temple, or some are specifically for men while others are for women. Some are for animals, some to the land itself, and many are tied to things that may or may not apply depending on the circumstances. In the end, there are "about" 80 to 120 commandments that would apply to us (I believe) that can be done regardless of where we are. So, could I find commandments dealing with tatoos, piercings, drug abuse,etc.? Sure.... but won't this mean me quoting some OT passages? Again, sure... but that shouldn't cause concern. Jesus said that ALL the Law and Prophets hang on the Big 2... loving God and loving neighbor. So for arguments sake, lets say there are 80 commandments that apply today under the conditions we are in... every one of them could be filed under loving God or loving neighbor. The 2 sum up the 10, and the 10 sum up the rest because even the 10 are divided by loving God and loving neighbor.

By the way, I respect anyone's method of praise, but I just don't get the lack of instruments. I know where the practice came from, but few Church of Christ members do. :)
 
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John Hyperspace

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Thanks for the replies to everyone replying. It seems to me that everyone is falling back to value-claims "I think it promotes lust, thus it's sin" or backward engineering "do no such thing" out of passages where there's really no "do no such thing" commandment. I'm not sure backward engineering "thou shalt not"s is what God would want us to do. Both of these will just slippery-slope us to the point that everything is breaking commandments.

If we're moving out of academic ponderings and into theology; what is forefront on my mind here is that, I do not in any way want to put a "stumblingblock" in front of a sibling in Christ. If we're saying "ought not to be done" this one stands out to me as my own personal "do no putting stumblingblock before your sibling"; I want to encourage, and build up; not to be the cause of stumbling and crisis of faith, and sower of doubt and fear.

What I mean is, if someone comes to me, and says "I am a professing Christian, recently coming to the faith in Christ; I am wondering, I do [insert any act on the list above] and am wondering if this is sinful? And I must repent? I don't know if this is sinful?" then I would look at scripture (which I know pretty well) and say to myself "I see no explicit prohibition to this action": if I say to the one, "It is sin" (even though there is no commandment against it) then all I'm really doing is sowing a seed in their mind. I'm not helping them, or, providing them a means to cease the action. I'm sowing a seed that is going to cause them to begin to stumble as they find they cannot cease from the action, and the seed will begin to grow, tormenting their conscience, generating feelings of doubt in their hope, attacking their faith, and generally beginning to accuse and wreck havoc; they may well stumble and fall. All because I made a pronouncement to them that was not really true.

I could say, some of the habits can very well lead to sorrow and suffering in the flesh. Go around sleeping with random people and you will probably reap to yourself considerable pain and suffering in the flesh through disease and emotional distress. Keep drinking alcohol and you will reap physical tolls on your body that are going to cause suffering to yourself, and, to others around you. Sow to the flesh and reap to the flesh. But are these "sinful"? Or, are they a punishment from themselves? There is a big difference between saying "It is sin against God" and "it will do harm to yourself": the former statement can be (and usually is) a huge stumblingblock to faith, and can cause irreparable harm to the faith of others. The latter statement, doesn't do this. It warns of problems that can arise, that the individual may have to endure; but it is not interfering in a relationship with God.

I'm only thinking that, as for me, I find no explicit command against any of these things; specially under the new covenant which only seems to have one, new commandment: John 13:34, 2 John 1:5, 1 John 2:8-10 which seems to be the new law, the royal law: James 2:8

So if we, ourselves, cannot be explicitly sure of a commandment; and have to "backward engineer" commandments (many times backward engineering without even knowing what certain words really mean) wouldn't we refrain from pronouncing judgment of "sin" on things we're not even sure of, as this will certainly be putting stumblingblock before our siblings, while uncertainly being "sinful"? I am reminded of these verses: Romans 14:13, 1 John 2:10
 
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John Hyperspace

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By the way, I respect anyone's method of praise, but I just don't get the lack of instruments. I know where the practice came from, but few Church of Christ members do. :)

The idea comes from the belief that we are only allowed to do in service what the new covenant expressly says to do. Anything more than this is "sinful": the new covenant (really, the writings of the apostles) teach to "sing psalms" and "sing a song" but say nothing about "use instruments" and thus they say "whatever is not of faith is sin; and faith comes by hearing the Word of God: and since you never hear the new testament writers say 'play instruments during worship'" then doing such is "presumptuous sin" and "sinful" and rebellion against God. Thus, all churches that use musical intsruments in worship service are false churches, condemned to burn for eternity. If one reply "That seems harsh to send all Christians to hell forever just because they didn't know they weren't supposed to play instruments in service" the reply is built on the same logic as any "God will send you to hell forever because God is holy and just and cannot leave sin unpunished" logic. To them, playing instruments in service is an infinite crime against an inifinite God, and it is justly deserved of the churches with instruments in them to be sentenced to infinite pain for all of time. They'll also make sure to mention that "acapella" means "as the church does" which proves that the early church used no instruments but voice, and that bringing instruments into worship was a trick of Satan to deceive 99% of Christians into burning for eternity.

They have their "proof" of "sin" much like any other. If you've escaped damnation by removing instruments from your services; next you'll need to make sure no woman has short hair, no woman wears anything but a very long dress, no man has long hair, no dancing, no speaking for women during service, no women can do anything but sit in silence always, etc. Because if you're a woman with short hair, and at service; you are willfully tempting angels and will burn forever for your wickedness.

In my own personal experience I could condemn others to hell for their willful violation of the commands of God with the best of them. "And you think your rules are righteous? Well, wait until you got a load of mine." I was way more righteous than others because they might say "I obey the commandments!" but I would reply "So do I; but, do you have musical instruments at service?" "Why, yes; we have a lovely..." "SINNER!"

I remember one day finding out about the Amish and I was like, "Hey, these guys are one-upping us! We need more commandments so we can be more righteous than them!" But my proposal of cave-dwelling Christians in full-length burlap sacks was rejected by the congregation.

But seriously, one day I was reading scripture and I noticed "singing psalms" and a light went on over my head. I asked my parents "Hey, if it says 'psalms' why are we not singing psalms? In fact why are we singing songs written by men that God never sanctioned in the new covenant?" And my parents said "It doesn't matter what we sing, as long as we're singing something" and I said "But that's not in the scripture" and my father said "Be still, you always think you know everything!"

That's when I went. Hmmm. Something's not adding up. And God said "Let there be light!"
 
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Thanks for the replies to everyone replying. It seems to me that everyone is falling back to value-claims "I think it promotes lust, thus it's sin" or backward engineering "do no such thing" out of passages where there's really no "do no such thing" commandment. I'm not sure backward engineering "thou shalt not"s is what God would want us to do. Both of these will just slippery-slope us to the point that everything is breaking commandments.

If we're moving out of academic ponderings and into theology; what is forefront on my mind here is that, I do not in any way want to put a "stumblingblock" in front of a sibling in Christ. If we're saying "ought not to be done" this one stands out to me as my own personal "do no putting stumblingblock before your sibling"; I want to encourage, and build up; not to be the cause of stumbling and crisis of faith, and sower of doubt and fear.

What I mean is, if someone comes to me, and says "I am a professing Christian, recently coming to the faith in Christ; I am wondering, I do [insert any act on the list above] and am wondering if this is sinful? And I must repent? I don't know if this is sinful?" then I would look at scripture (which I know pretty well) and say to myself "I see no explicit prohibition to this action": if I say to the one, "It is sin" (even though there is no commandment against it) then all I'm really doing is sowing a seed in their mind. I'm not helping them, or, providing them a means to cease the action. I'm sowing a seed that is going to cause them to begin to stumble as they find they cannot cease from the action, and the seed will begin to grow, tormenting their conscience, generating feelings of doubt in their hope, attacking their faith, and generally beginning to accuse and wreck havoc; they may well stumble and fall. All because I made a pronouncement to them that was not really true.

I could say, some of the habits can very well lead to sorrow and suffering in the flesh. Go around sleeping with random people and you will probably reap to yourself considerable pain and suffering in the flesh through disease and emotional distress. Keep drinking alcohol and you will reap physical tolls on your body that are going to cause suffering to yourself, and, to others around you. Sow to the flesh and reap to the flesh. But are these "sinful"? Or, are they a punishment from themselves? There is a big difference between saying "It is sin against God" and "it will do harm to yourself": the former statement can be (and usually is) a huge stumblingblock to faith, and can cause irreparable harm to the faith of others. The latter statement, doesn't do this. It warns of problems that can arise, that the individual may have to endure; but it is not interfering in a relationship with God.

I'm only thinking that, as for me, I find no explicit command against any of these things; specially under the new covenant which only seems to have one, new commandment: John 13:34, 2 John 1:5, 1 John 2:8-10 which seems to be the new law, the royal law: James 2:8

So if we, ourselves, cannot be explicitly sure of a commandment; and have to "backward engineer" commandments (many times backward engineering without even knowing what certain words really mean) wouldn't we refrain from pronouncing judgment of "sin" on things we're not even sure of, as this will certainly be putting stumblingblock before our siblings, while uncertainly being "sinful"? I am reminded of these verses: Romans 14:13, 1 John 2:10
Well said. Are you arguing there is no sin? I've still thought sin exists as any choice we make against our conscience. So we weigh up these moral dilemmas and go from there according to loving God, ourselves and others, keeping a clear conscience.
 
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The idea comes from the belief that we are only allowed to do in service what the new covenant expressly says to do. Anything more than this is "sinful": the new covenant (really, the writings of the apostles) teach to "sing psalms" and "sing a song" but say nothing about "use instruments" and thus they say "whatever is not of faith is sin; and faith comes by hearing the Word of God: and since you never hear the new testament writers say 'play instruments during worship'" then doing such is "presumptuous sin" and "sinful" and rebellion against God. Thus, all churches that use musical intsruments in worship service are false churches, condemned to burn for eternity. If one reply "That seems harsh to send all Christians to hell forever just because they didn't know they weren't supposed to play instruments in service" the reply is built on the same logic as any "God will send you to hell forever because God is holy and just and cannot leave sin unpunished" logic. To them, playing instruments in service is an infinite crime against an inifinite God, and it is justly deserved of the churches with instruments in them to be sentenced to infinite pain for all of time. They'll also make sure to mention that "acapella" means "as the church does" which proves that the early church used no instruments but voice, and that bringing instruments into worship was a trick of Satan to deceive 99% of Christians into burning for eternity.

They have their "proof" of "sin" much like any other. If you've escaped damnation by removing instruments from your services; next you'll need to make sure no woman has short hair, no woman wears anything but a very long dress, no man has long hair, no dancing, no speaking for women during service, no women can do anything but sit in silence always, etc. Because if you're a woman with short hair, and at service; you are willfully tempting angels and will burn forever for your wickedness.

In my own personal experience I could condemn others to hell for their willful violation of the commands of God with the best of them. "And you think your rules are righteous? Well, wait until you got a load of mine." I was way more righteous than others because they might say "I obey the commandments!" but I would reply "So do I; but, do you have musical instruments at service?" "Why, yes; we have a lovely..." "SINNER!"

I remember one day finding out about the Amish and I was like, "Hey, these guys are one-upping us! We need more commandments so we can be more righteous than them!" But my proposal of cave-dwelling Christians in full-length burlap sacks was rejected by the congregation.

But seriously, one day I was reading scripture and I noticed "singing psalms" and a light went on over my head. I asked my parents "Hey, if it says 'psalms' why are we not singing psalms? In fact why are we singing songs written by men that God never sanctioned in the new covenant?" And my parents said "It doesn't matter what we sing, as long as we're singing something" and I said "But that's not in the scripture" and my father said "Be still, you always think you know everything!"

That's when I went. Hmmm. Something's not adding up. And God said "Let there be light!"

The Priests (in the days of the Temple) did not use instruments. The Church of Christ mirrored this practice but what they didn't realize was, that the reason they didn't use instruments is because they met on Sabbath. :) So when the Temple was open for worship on Sabbath no instruments were used because Jewish halacha (Jewish law, based on God's but with additions meant for clarity though I certainly don't agree with some of it) said playing an instrument is work. This is the part I said most in the COC don't know... the reason behind the lack of instruments by the priests.

1 John 3:4 defines sin pretty well... interesting study... to look up the word translated as "transgressing the law" or however any certain version translates that. Look where else that word is used and in what context... it is a worthy study. Blessings John.
 
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