Was the Star of Bethlehem of Satan?

John Hyperspace said:

The word translated "wise men" is the plural of "magus" same word translated as "sorcerer" at Acts 13:6 and Acts 13:8?

Click to expand...

Then something along the line of Wise man = Wizard?

4x4toy said:

We are the bride of Christ and he owns the cattle on a thousand hills .. Psalms 50:10-12 ..

Click to expand...

Oh , please.

Kenny'sID said:

Then something along the line of Wise man = Wizard?

Click to expand...

Honestly I'm not sure what magi did, there's not enough in the scripture. I've heard a number of theories, but don't know which is true. Things like, astrologers, scientists, pharmacists, wise men, occultists, etc. All I can really say is that, whatever they were, the "wise men" were them.

I also remember reading a theory that they were Zoarastrian priests founded by Daniel the prophet, who was the original Zoaraster-Zarathustra in Chaldea during the exile. But I gave up on histories of men a long time ago. Too uncertain and conflicting to trust.

I highly recommend this article and video about identifying the star:

http://www.bethlehemstar.com/setting-the-stage/why-are-we-hearing-this-now/

John Hyperspace said:

Honestly I'm not sure what magi did, there's not enough in the scripture. I've heard a number of theories, but don't know which is true. Things like, astrologers, scientists, pharmacists, wise men, occultists, etc. All I can really say is that, whatever they were, the "wise men" were them.

Click to expand...

Just saying right off hand, and before I do any research on it, Wiz sounds and awful lot like Wise, as well as fitting the criteria.

I'll look into it eventually, but I'm far from convinced the three wise men were anything but Good. However, even if they were exactly what we are discussing, Christ saved all kinds of people, and all kinds came to him for forgiveness or to just listen, so it changes nothing.

Radrook said:

Well, you choose to believe that it was a conjunction of planets? Since when do conjoined planets move across the sky sand position themselves over a town? If indeed the star's appearance has a naturalistic explanation, then please tell us exactly what were the names of the planets that conjoined and when they are scheduled to conjoin again so we can witness this spectacle. If not under intelligent control then why station themselves over Bethlehem? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

NO, Jesus does not get involved with those who practice the occult. From whence do you derive that notion. Jesus knows that such occult practices are condemned in the OT and he would never go contrary to what the OT tells us. In fact, first century Christians burned all their books dealing with the occult and in the book of Revelation those that practice the occult are said to be left out o the book of life and outside the city of New Jerusalem which represents God's exalted Christian Church.

Click to expand...

There are at least four different specific explanations of which planets. You can see them in the wikipedia article(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem). Then consult astronomical tables if you want to see the event again. The astronomical event will mean nothing to you unless you are a follower of Balaam's prophecies, which, as I said, was a standard reference for Magi in their home country. The star did not move to lead them to Israel. They computed the conjunction was coming, interpreted it in the light of the prophecy and left for Israel. You can tell because Herod asked for the time when the star first appeaerED, past tense. If the star was there and then visible, Herod would have sent a detachment to follow the wise men, as it would constitute immediate proof of a threat to his throne. All their inquiry meant to Herod was that a few rich guys (who he wanted to make happy, since he did not know what power they had) thought his throne might be in jeopardy 20 years from now. There was no proof of any of this, so that's why he waited for their return to decide what to do next. Herod killed the babies because he was angry with the Wise Men for not getting back to him. Herod was just crazy.

It does not say the Wise Men ever saw the star move in Israel either. Herod sent them to Bethlehem, and on their arrival, the star was resting over the selected house. That part was a miracle of God getting the wise men in the right place at exactly the right time to see it that way.

Jesus gets involved with all sinners. He offers them salvation. The next choice is up to them. It is sad we will never know for certain what the wise men did after their encounter with the Messiah of Israel. It may or may not be related, but there are non-Biblical legends of Jesus' ministry being respected quite a bit earlier than we would expect in a couple of places, and it is tempting to wonder if the Wise Men actually became evangelists in or around their homeland. (I mean the letter of Abgarus from Edessa, and the Life of Saint Issa from India.)

John Hyperspace said:

The word translated "wise men" is the plural of "magus" same word translated as "sorcerer" at Acts 13:6 and Acts 13:8?

Click to expand...

I notice

John Hyperspace said:

Honestly I'm not sure what magi did, there's not enough in the scripture. I've heard a number of theories, but don't know which is true. Things like, astrologers, scientists, pharmacists, wise men, occultists, etc. All I can really say is that, whatever they were, the "wise men" were them.

Click to expand...

Wise men seek Jesus

Radrook said:

There is a certain teaching that describes the star as being produced by Satan. The reason for this conclusion is that the star first led them to Herod. Then after they were led to Herod, it proceeded towards Bethlehem. Why lead them to Herod first is the crucial question and the only answer is that the star wanted Herod to know exactly where the Messiah was so that Herod could murder him. Since the star was under intelligent control and the only one with the power to do such a thing against Jesus is Satan, then he is the one who is believed to have been behind the scheme.

BTW
The three wise men are described sometimes as astrologers and magi. Both astrology and magic are condemned in the OT.

Click to expand...

The three wise men were magi in the original meaning of the term, that is to say, they were mobeds, or priests of the Zoroastrian religion of Persia.

John Hyperspace said:

The word translated "wise men" is the plural of "magus" same word translated as "sorcerer" at Acts 13:6 and Acts 13:8?

Click to expand...

Like the Magi and also several other early converts to Christianity, Simon Magus was also a Zoroastrian priest, who after his rejection by the Apostles, organized the first Gnostic sect (source: St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies). Gnosticism inherits from Zoroastrianism a dualist cosmology, although Gnosticism goes on to say all matter is evil.

Escobar said:

The whole Christmas story came from the beast-minded men who built false gods with their human hands. The Beast was used by God to have His people build false gods with their human hands so that He could use visual objects to help us saints understand the future and how we're created so the Beast was a very important part of the 1,000 year reign of Christ, which is the time that the Gospel of God revealed all His knowledge about the future and how we're created with his thoughts.

Click to expand...

Ehhh...no. You may wish to reread the first few chapters of Matthew, Luke and John sometime eh.

Escobar said:

Why are you arguing with the knowledge that comes directly from our Lord?

Click to expand...

Does it? Galatians 1:8 comes to mind.

Escobar said:

If you knew what the Gospel is, then you would understand everything that I know to be true. Argument comes from the thoughts that are meant to confuse God's people and get them to build false gods with their human hands.

Click to expand...

What you have said, alleging that the birth of our Lord was a story fabricated by the devil, is entirely opposed to the Gospel and is thus anathema according to Galatians 1:8. So, no.

I would also observe that your argument against argument is circular and self-defeating, a paradox which nonetheless has not prevented similiar arguments from being successfully employed on the less intelligent by various cult leaders and tyrants over the years.

Radrook said:

There is a certain teaching that describes the star as being produced by Satan. The reason for this conclusion is that the star first led them to Herod. Then after they were led to Herod, it proceeded towards Bethlehem. Why lead them to Herod first is the crucial question and the only answer is that the star wanted Herod to know exactly where the Messiah was so that Herod could murder him. Since the star was under intelligent control and the only one with the power to do such a thing against Jesus is Satan, then he is the one who is believed to have been behind the scheme.

BTW
The three wise men are described sometimes as astrologers and magi. Both astrology and magic are condemned in the OT.

Click to expand...

Two things, 1. in ancient times there was no difference between an astronomer and an astrologer, any person who studied the "heavens" was called an astrologer. 2. magus (plural magi) means "wise man", it has nothing to do with what moderns would call magic or magicians. There is no such thing as magic BTW. Wiccans are all delusional.

Paul Yohannan said:

Like the Magi and also several other early converts to Christianity, Simon Magus was also a Zoroastrian priest, who after his rejection by the Apostles, organized the first Gnostic sect (source: St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies). Gnosticism inherits from Zoroastrianism a dualist cosmology, although Gnosticism goes on to say all matter is evil.

Click to expand...

I've heard that one as well. Though if I remember correctly not all Gnosticism has a dualist cosmology, but only some branches. Apparently they were viewed as heretical by the other branches. I remember reading a letter "to Flora" (?) from a certain Gnostic teacher condemning the doctrine as heresy.

Paul Yohannan said:

Like the Magi and also several other early converts to Christianity, Simon Magus was also a Zoroastrian priest, who after his rejection by the Apostles, organized the first Gnostic sect (source: St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies). Gnosticism inherits from Zoroastrianism a dualist cosmology, although Gnosticism goes on to say all matter is evil.

Click to expand...

Dualism was adopted pretty much wholesale by the early Christian church and remains so in much of it even today.

Radrook said:

There is a certain teaching that describes the star as being produced by Satan. The reason for this conclusion is that the star first led them to Herod. Then after they were led to Herod, it proceeded towards Bethlehem. Why lead them to Herod first is the crucial question and the only answer is that the star wanted Herod to know exactly where the Messiah was so that Herod could murder him. Since the star was under intelligent control and the only one with the power to do such a thing against Jesus is Satan, then he is the one who is believed to have been behind the scheme.

BTW
The three wise men are described sometimes as astrologers and magi. Both astrology and magic are condemned in the OT.

Click to expand...

Simply reading the bible proves this teaching to be heretical.

1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 5And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

7Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. 9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. 11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. 12And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

The star lead them to Jerusalem not to Herod, Herod was there. Herod also called the wise men to him not when he heard about them, they did not seek Herod out.

As "Bestillandknow" stated in their post (#11), Mathew 2:2 states that it was "His star".

End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

JackRT said:

We do not know that there were three magi only that there were three gifts. Magi is the plural form of magus and a magus was a priest of the Zoroastrian religion that so greatly influenced the Jews during the Babylonian Exile. They certainly were not kings and they might or might not have been wise men. "Following a star" is also highly problematic --- just how can one follow a star and how can one tell when a star is directly over a location? I suspect that most of this aspect of the Nativity narrative must be regarded as allegorical.

Click to expand...

I agree, the number of magi is not indicated. The number of gifts and their value was.

I do believe that the gifts provided financial needs for the trip to Egypt, as mentioned by the link given by "Radrook" in post #4.

I am always surprised when Christians wright something off as being "allegorical" just because we cannot find an understandable explanation for it.

The star was not an allegorical item. It was a star. Christs star. It was visible to the magi, in their eastern sky. They followed it and it stopped over Bethlehem .

I find it quite refreshing, to read about events, in the bible, that defy our worldly physical understanding and conflict with our minuscule understanding of this universe and the events that happen in this dimension.

Can you imagine if the bible was devoid of supernatural events, connected to the events dealing directly with God, our creator and His son the Messiah?