Worship Wars: Traditional Hymns Vs. Praise Choruses

Dave-W

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one of the better ones was the "Maranatha! Double Praise albums" from the 70s,--90s which there were 20 or more albums (I have 8 of them) and all of them used the Word as the basis for their lyrics:
They also released many of those praise tunes done as instrumentals. My favorite is a double album of praise tunes done as smooth jazz by Mehler and Nash.

 
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mnorian

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They also released many of those praise tunes done as instrumentals. My favorite is a double album of praise tunes done as smooth jazz by Mehler and Nash.


All the Double Praise albums are half singing and music; then the second half they repeat the same songs as instrumentals; sometimes done in a different tempo or style; but always based on the same songs. I haven't seen any that are all instrumental but only have 8 of them; so would like some of the all instrumentals ones.
 
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mnorian

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hi DaveW...the video is not available, even when I clicked through on youtube...but I found this one

Hi MP; that video from Dave worked for me; it might have just been your connection temporally malfunctioning; sometimes they do that to me; from CF & utube both.

But; I'm glad that it didn't cause the one you put up is the whole album; over an hour of music! Right on!:clap: nice and peaceful too.

I see in this video; what these are: Jazz praise albums put out by Maranatha!; as this one says:
  • Psalm 42 (Longing For You) (Instrumental)" by Maranatha! Instrumental
The ones I have are Maranatha! Double Praise albums; like this one:

Maranatha Double Praise 12

 
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Dave-W

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I'm glad that it didn't cause the one you put up is the whole album; over an hour of music! Right on!:clap: nice and peaceful too.
Indeed. It is one of my favorite CDs. I gave away my copy of it to a missionary to Mexico in the late 1990s and it took me a few years to find a replacement ....
 
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All4Christ

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O Gladsome Light - one of the oldest Christian hymns (possibly 3rd century), which crosses all Christian denominations and churches [emoji846]

1 O gladsome light, O grace
of our Creator's face,
the eternal splendor wearing:
celestial, holy, blest,
our Savior Jesus Christ,
joyful in your appearing.
2 As fades the day's last light,
we see the lamps of night
our common hymn outpouring;
O God of might unknown,
you, the incarnate Son,
and Spirit blest adoring.
3 To you of right belongs
all praise of holy songs,
O Son of God, Life-giver;
you, therefore, O Most High,
the world does glorify
and shall exalt forever.

Another translation which we use in my parish:

O Gladsome Light of the holy glory of the Immortal Father, heavenly, holy, blessed Jesus Christ.

Now we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening. We praise God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

For it is right at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise, O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world glorifies Thee.


 
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talitha

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First of all - I don't really like the term "praise chorus" - it trivialises 50 years of modern/contemporary worship music...... IMHO.
And this entire thread seems to me to be stuck in the past. I like to "sing to the Lord a new song". My favorite thing is spontaneous music/singing.
I dislike most hymns and Southern gospel, but I recognize that it is just personal taste, and I can still worship that way, I just don't prefer it. I think David Crowder does a good job modernizing that stuff, and I enjoy listening to his music.
Songs based on the Word of God - many songs coming out of IHOP-KC are like that - they "worship with the word" about 10 out of every 24 hours, seven days a week. This I think was a Worship with the Word set and it's also spontaneous, at the beginning......
 
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mnorian

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It's Sunday so let's have a truce in the Worship "war"

Let Love flow from your lips; no matter what kind song you chose; to Worship Jesus our Lord!

His Love is reality; not the world:

Evie - 1979 - Don't run from reality

563eb76301466355848240c50797dcb3.jpg

 
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mnorian

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First of all - I don't really like the term "praise chorus" - it trivialises 50 years of modern/contemporary worship music...... IMHO.
And this entire thread seems to me to be stuck in the past. I like to "sing to the Lord a new song". My favorite thing is spontaneous music/singing.
I dislike most hymns and Southern gospel, but I recognize that it is just personal taste, and I can still worship that way, I just don't prefer it. I think David Crowder does a good job modernizing that stuff, and I enjoy listening to his music.
Songs based on the Word of God - many songs coming out of IHOP-KC are like that - they "worship with the word" about 10 out of every 24 hours, seven days a week. This I think was a Worship with the Word set and it's also spontaneous, at the beginning......

Really liked that Rivera song.:cool:
 
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Dave-W

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First of all - I don't really like the term "praise chorus" - it trivialises 50 years of modern/contemporary worship music...... IMHO.
Actually more than that. The "Jesus Movement" started in Larry Norman's living room in the LA area in the summer of Love - 1967. So that makes Jesus Movement choruses 60 years old next year; but before that was the praise choruses used in pentecostal churches from the early 20th century (1920s and 30s) which makes it almost a century old.
 
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Kenyon Ledford

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As a UMC pastor (now retired), I have conducted many funeral and memorial services, mostly with organ accompaniment and traditional hymns. My Dad was a TV Gospel singer for the longest televised Christian program in North America. He just hated contemporary praise choruses. Until the new millennium, I disliked most of them too. But today I think we need a memorial service for the now passe organ! Growing U. S. evangelical churches have generally abandoned the organ and feature mostly modern praise choruses. The guitar, drums, saxaphone, and keyboard are now the instruments of choice. I still cringe at many modern praise choruses with their repetitive and shallow lyrics, but now consider the best of them to be superior to hymns.

In my last UMC church, I started a 2nd contemporary service that is quickly outgrowing the more traditional service with blended worship--blended instead of traditional because my musicians can't tolerate a service with hymns only! Someone defined "blended worship" as "a service with something that makes everyone unhappy!"

In this thread, I want to explore your reactions to my perspective on the hymns vs. praise chorus debate. True, I'm now a praise chorus guy, but I want to begin by posting older church music that I still consider as worshipfully enjoyable as the best of praise choruses. Please feel free to react to my selections and offer counter-preferences.


Just listening to a show on this. Never gave it a thought. I imagined praising God is the important thing. I wonder if A cappella monks back in the day gave sidelong looks at the first pump organ.
 
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Kenyon Ledford

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In the late 1990s, I pastored a 2-church United Methodist charge in the Finger Lakes region in western NY (gorgeous country!). My pianist organist died, and (without consulting me) one church hired a new music director, who turned out to be a gay, Jewish jazz group leader (about 30) from Rochester with a cocaine addiction, who was just looking for extra cash. I thought Jon would only stay a few months, but he stayed for many years, long after I left to pastor a church in distant Buffalo. People would urge me to confront Jon about his lifestyle, but I resisted on the grounds that I was afraid that would just drive him away. Many years later John asked me to return and participate in his baptism. The Holy Spirit spoke to Jon through our worship and he eventually toned down his lifestyle, gave up drugs, and became a devout Christian. What made his presence particularly touching is that our church was conservative, not open and inclusive, and yet, they grew to love Jon so much that our elderly women would drive up to the gay bars in Rochester to support his band (freaking out the patrons!). Keep this in mind as background for my first posted hymn.

Neither church featured modern praise choruses and I was quite ignorant of them back then, but I sensed a need to enliven our worship. One day, as I was walking a few miles down our highway in beautiful scenery. I silently asked God for guidance on this matter. Suddenly 2 songs began to play in my head, as if I had a cassette recorder in my brain: "Dwelling in Beulah Land" and "Lily of the Valley." I vaguely recalled "Lily of the Valley," but was quite unfamiliar with "Dwelling in Beulah Land." I must have heard it as a boy at a church camp meeting. But how could I suddenly recall the lyrics of these unfamiliar songs? It felt like divine revelation.

I tracked down the music and showed it to Jon. To my surprise he adored both songs and promised to play them in next Sunday's singing. The result was absolutely electrifying in one of my 2 churches My other more sedate UM church liked them, but didn't go bonkers over them like my second church because they didn't have a jazz pianist like Jon. Jon's church clapped as they sang both songs at the top of their voices. I have never sensed the power and presence of the Holy Spirit more in a Sunday worship service!

In my view, the best of modern praise choruses have poetic lyrics that are more artistic than most traditional hymns. There are 2 exceptions: "In the Garden" and "Dwelling in Beulah Land." To my amazement, I recently discovered that Austin Miles composed them both! Miles composed "In the Garden" after a waking vision of Mary Magdalene leaning to look in Jesus' tomb. After the vision, he said the lyrics for "in the Garden" came to him almost like dictation. "Dwelling in Beulah Land" takes as its inspiration the OT Hebrew word "Beulah" which means "marriage." So "Beulah Land" refers to a second honeymoon with God, after a period of wandering away. The song is based on the image of rising up above our problems to the mountain top of delight in the Spirit's presence (represented by the fountain and manna as spiritual food and drink). The YouTube video below gives you some idea of the difference a jazzed performance of the song makes for a worship service's energy and the difference Jon's performance made to the song. Unfortunately, only a couple of the 5 verses are sung. Notice the enthusiasm of the little girls.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...50ECFBCEAFFCB397E64550ECFBCEAFFCB3&FORM=VIRE1

If you asked my parishioners for the first thought that comes to mind when they think of me, some would reply, "Don's favorite hymn, "Dwelling in Beulah Land."


GREAT story!

And dwelling in Beulah Land is what I'm doing. I hope not to wander away this time. Going to listen to it now.
 
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Kenyon Ledford

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I want to shift now to 3 choruses that, to my dismay, aren't even in the top CCLI 100. Do you agree with me that these 3 choruses [ranked in reverse order of personal preference) are musically and lyrically superior to most traditional hymns and that they are among the very best of modern praise choruses?

(3) "He Reigns" (Newsboys):
youtube he reigns - Bing

(2) "Better than a Hallelujah" (Amy Grant):

(1) "Who Am I?" (Casting Crowns):
youtube who am i - Bing



"Better Than a Hallelujah" is BEAUTIFUL! Well written lyrics and pretty melody. Is this one of the "no-no" songs?
 
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Kenyon Ledford

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Soyeong,

Thanks for your video. I once attended a large UCC church in Rochester, NY that seated about 1,500, but had only about 35 parishioners present that Sunday morning. Evidently due to huge endowments, this church had a large choir of paid singers from the Eastman School of Music. Musically, they were superb, but their singing left me cold because I sensed that they didn't really mean what they sang and would not dream of being in that choir without being paid.

Conversely, in the last UMC church I pastored, my pianist, Jan, felt she had to relinquish her duties due to failing vision as a result of acute diabetes. She was afraid of making mistakes and ruining the song service. I urged her to stay on and do her best, and she reluctantly complied. The atmosphere of worship just sweetened and intensified with her at the keys because everyone felt her vulnerability and knew that she was giving it her all in a heartfelt act of worship. And though she couldn't play as well as she did before her failing eyesight, she made very few mistakes.

During the electrifying 'Welsh revival of 1994-1906, one reporter from a major London newspaper said, "I have never heard a professional choir that could rival the spirited singing of even one of those Welsh congregations." These congregations were largely composed of ppor people (coal miners, etc.) with untrained voices, who were experiencing such intimate communion with God that they often stayed from 7PM to the small hours of the morning. An early reporter wrote that even by 4 AM, the people didn't seem to want to leave, because they were so intoxicated by the Lord's presence.

To learn how the most spectacular revivals evolve, using the humblest of instruments, watch these 3 awe-inspiring videos:

(1) Lecture by J. Edwin Orr on the famous Welsh Revival of 1905-1906:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...EE1F161A7FC37C579266EE1F161A7FC37C5&FORM=VIRE

(2) Documentary on the Welsh Revival from the Perspective of Evan Roberts's Diary:
[Be patient with the initial historical section and recognize that the video's solos were treasured hymns in the Welsh Revival. although much of the singing was singing supernaturally composed in the Spirit.]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...BCE66E52072A470B2A62BCE66E52072A470&FORM=VIRE


Great stories, especially about Jan!
 
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Dave-W

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This war has been going on since well before I was born (1955)

Praise choruses got started in the early 20th century with the rise of pentecostalism. My mom loved them. My dad hated them. His opinion was if it was not classical hymn or southern gospel, it was unfit for anything. He believed GOD only accepted and liked those genres of music. One day not too long before he passed, we talked about it again. I made the points that if God REALLY had a preference, it would have been what our Lord experienced growing up in first century Judea. Minor key. No harmony. In Hebrew or Aramaic. He thought for a minute or 2, and then agreed.

 
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Minor key. No harmony. In Hebrew or Aramaic. He thought for a minute or 2, and then agreed.

That sounds very much like the music of the Syriac Orthodox Church and the Assyrian Church of the East, which is in Syriac Aramaic, and is extremely beautiful; it has also been translated to English, Arabic and other languages. It also sounds like Coptic chant, called “Tasbeha”, and Eastern Orthodox Byzantine and Znamenny Chant, and Armenian chant, and like the Ge’ez music of the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church. And indeed, like traditional Gregorian (and Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Beneventan chant and other ancient Western Christian hymnody).

Your made a minor technical error in presuming it is minor key; ancient chant is modal, and in Syriac Orthodox, Byzantine, Znamenny, Gregorian and most other ancient systems of chant there are eight modes or tones, and these determine the selection of notes, and they do not precisely correspond with minor or major key; Syriac, Byzantine and Assyrian chant especially has lots of quarter tones and half tones, which produce dissonance, but it also has bright melodies, and many of these do have at times a Middle Eastern feel, but not always, not neccessarily, and not in a manner that is uncheerful.

A major characteristic of all of these ancient systems of church music is antiphonality, based on a dream St. Ignatius the Martyr had, in which two choirs of angels took turns singing praises to God. Antiphonal music was introduced to the west by St. Ambrose of Milan in 386, when he and his flock occupied one of the basillicas in Milan, which Emperor Theodosius, despite not being an Arian, had intended to give to the Arian heretics to placate them; at the time, the music of the Church of Rome was actually monotonous in a literal sense (low masses were chanted in monotone until at least the ninth century; eventually they were whispered or said silently instead, or serenaded in the French tradition by organ music), and St. Ambrose introduced the Greek style antiphonal singing to keep up the spirits of his people.
 
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