Worship Wars: Traditional Hymns Vs. Praise Choruses

[mnorian]

Alan Jackson - Are You Washed In The Blood / I'll Fly

 

[mnorian]

Mnoorian, your song reminds me of a potential improvement for our worship song selection. Worship leaders seem to feel the need to choose contemporary praise choruses, or traditional hymns, or a blend of both. Both genres have an identifying style that tends to wear thin after awhile, especially when inferior songs from each genre are selected. One solution to this routine is to blend in some of the best southern Gospel or Christian country western songs. Your selection of "There Will be Peace in the Valley" is a good example. But my congregation seemed to really enjoy these as well:

1. "For Those Tears I Died"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...FEE9EC4BE8BBB4282218FEE9EC4BE8BBB42&FORM=VIRE

2. "Railway to Heaven" (Statler Brothers):
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...77FF0E1FA5C10873597577FF0E1FA5C1087&FORM=VIRE

3. "On the Wings of a Dove"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...D797D47827D024187982D797D47827D0241&FORM=VIRE

4, "I'll Fly Away" (Gaither Singers): In my experience, despite the rather hokie lyrics, this southern song is by far the favorite Chr\istian song about heaven:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+gaither+i'll+fly+away&view=detail&mid=1C9E3E867985218FFB311C9E3E867985218FFB31&FORM=VIRE
[Consider this post a work in progress while I track down videos of these songs.]

I didn't have anything better to do so I looked them up for you; the Alan Jackson one comes with the bonus of "are you washed in the blood of the Lamb".

 

[mnorian]

For the song "For those Tears I Died" I found this unknown artist Marsha Stevens and really liked her version.

For Those Tears I Died - Come to the Water by Marsha Stevens

 

[WolfGate]

Who Am I - a great song and one that I agree is impactful and full of truth.

I too grew up going to a church that did hymns. When we found our current church about 20 years ago and I first heard praise and worship songs, I was captivated. Part of it is personal preference, but the music and lyrics were more worshipful, to me, than what I found in the hymns.

On the positive side for the hymns, the hymns still common today have pretty much stood the test of time and the weaker ones have been thinned out over the years. With P&W, so much new comes out each year that you have to be careful when selecting which songs are truly musically and lyrically best for use in a service. There are lots of truly great P&W songs out there, and many more that should (and will soon) just be forgotten. But I still prefer the genre personally.

 

[Deadworm]

mnorian,

You posted "Are You Washed in the Blood" and this reminded me of a funny incident when I pastored a 2-church UMC charge in western New York in the late 1990s. Both churches used traditional hymns. On my computer, I created lists of hymn genres, each list containing 25 hymns. For example, one list contained my Elite 25 Opening Hymns of Praise, a second list my 25 Elite Energizing Hymns, a third list my 25 Elite Slow Majestic Hymns, and a fourth list my Elite 25 Communion and Lenten Hymns. Their elite status meant that most of them could be selected twice a year. Then I selected another 100 hymns under the same 4 categories and entitled these lists "Mediocre Opening Hymns of Praise," etc. These hymns were only selected if their lyrics seemed ideal for the sermon theme that Sunday and they were never sung more than once a year.

Then I perused all the verses of each hymn, looking for unexpected themes that fit sermon themes (e. g. mothers, divine guidance, etc.) . The hymnal index offered some help for this. I believe in thematically coherent services. True, some great hymns are just hymns of praise, but I planned my sermon themes a year in advance (with alterations as the Spirit led) and initially fit sermon and hymnic themes together as much as possible, and then added the great hymns of praise.

Then I created a long list of all my boycotted hymns which made that list either because I either didn't like the lyrics or didn't know or like the tune Then I gave a copy of my lists to Bob, my worship chairman. After surveying the lists, he exclaimed, "Hey, you've put some of my favorite hymns on your s _ _ t list! Well, that summer, Bob led worship while I was on vacation. He stood before the congregation, smiled, and said, "Today we're going to sing "Are You Washed in the Blood" and "Leaning on the Everlasting Arms." We're singing them now because Pastor Don hates them, and we'll never get to sing them if we don't sing them today!" When I heard about this "mutiny," I revised my Mediocre Hymn list to place both hymns on it! I really didn't want to impose my musical tastes on the congregation (well, except for Dwelling in Beulah Land). So with each church I pastored, I revised my lists to accommodate local preferences. And when I familiarized myself with the contemporary praise chorus scene, I later added lists of 25 Elite Praise Choruses and 25 Mediocre Praise Choruses!

 

[mnorian]

mnorian,

You posted "Are You Washed in the Blood" and this reminded me of a funny incident when I pastored a 2-church UMC charge in western New York in the late 1990s. Both churches used traditional hymns. On my computer, I created lists of hymn genres, each list containing 25 hymns. For example, one list contained my Elite 25 Opening Hymns of Praise, a second list my 25 Elite Energizing Hymns, a third list my 25 Elite Slow Majestic Hymns, and a fourth list my Elite 25 Communion and Lenten Hymns. Their elite status meant that most of them could be selected twice a year. Then I selected another 100 hymns under the same 4 categories and entitled these lists "Mediocre Opening Hymns of Praise," etc. These hymns were only selected if their lyrics seemed ideal for the sermon theme that Sunday and they were never sung more than once a year.

Then I perused all the verses of each hymn, looking for unexpected themes that fit sermon themes (e. g. mothers, divine guidance, etc.) . The hymnal index offered some help for this. I believe in thematically coherent services. True, some great hymns are just hymns of praise, but I planned my sermon themes a year in advance (with alterations as the Spirit led) and initially fit sermon and hymnic themes together as much as possible, and then added the great hymns of praise.

Then I created a long list of all my boycotted hymns which made that list either because I either didn't like the lyrics or didn't know or like the tune Then I gave a copy of my lists to Bob, my worship chairman. After surveying the lists, he exclaimed, "Hey, you've put some of my favorite hymns on your s _ _ t list! Well, that summer, Bob led worship while I was on vacation. He stood before the congregation, smiled, and said, "Today we're going to sing "Are You Washed in the Blood" and "Leaning on the Everlasting Arms." We're singing them now because Pastor Don hates them, and we'll never get to sing them if we don't sing them today!" When I heard about this "mutiny," I revised my Mediocre Hymn list to place both hymns on it! I really didn't want to impose my musical tastes on the congregation (well, except for Dwelling in Beulah Land). So with each church I pastored, I revised my lists to accommodate local preferences. And when I familiarized myself with the contemporary praise chorus scene, I later added lists of 25 Elite Praise Choruses and 25 Mediocre Praise Choruses!

I could make up two lists of songs I like and songs I would boycott; the songs I like would be changing all the time; but the boycotted would just get bigger; once on that list they wouldn't get off. There are three that stay on my like list:

1-- Oh Holy Night by Evie Tornquist (I know it's normally considerd a Christmas song but I like it all year round)
2-- The Battle Belongs to the Lord by the Maranatha Singers
3-- Shout to the Lord by Hillsong featuring Darlene Zschech



1-

2-

3--

 

[Deadworm]

mnorian, did you know that your favorite carol, "O Holy Night," was, after an introduction, the first thing ever heard on the first radio broadcast on Christmas Eve of 1906?

http://www.ohio.edu/people/postr/MRT/Cmas1906.htm

As for "The Battle Belongs to the Lord," I reserve that praise chorus for sermons on spiritual warfare; and for another praise chorus on this theme, I would typically have us sing, "I Will Call upon the Lord:"

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...9D9748816EC352877D4A9D9748816EC3528&FORM=VIRE

Though neither is a personal favorite, these 2 choruses illustrate the need to choose choruses with thematically unique lyrics over other more popular generic praise choruses.

 

[mnorian]

mnorian, did you know that your favorite carol, "O Holy Night," was, after an introduction, the first thing ever heard on the first radio broadcast on Christmas Eve of 1906?

As I was in communication electronics in the Army and TV & radio repair after; I have looked into the early radio broadcasts before and there are conflicting reports; it's all what you call broadcasting. There was some early close distance (from one room to another) in 1904 by Reginal Fessenden; wiki says it was the 1910 broadcast of the Metropolitan opera by Lee D, Forrest; but the one for any distance is probably the one you noted; by Fessenden from Brant Rock, Mass. on Christmas Eve 1906 and was heard from 20 miles away by a ship. I think it's cool that song was one of the first things sent over the air.

 

[Deadworm]

FAVORITES FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS:

I recommend that inexperienced pastors use the lectionary in their first few years. There are wonderful commentaries and online websites that can make topic selection and sermon preparation much easier. Also, the discipline of selecting 1 of the 4 lectionary Bible texts for each Sunday ensures that there is topical and textual variety in your sermon and Scriptural selections. Over the years, over-dependence on the lectionary can begin to quench the Spirit. But it should still be used for Advent and Lent.

Here are my top recommendations for special Sundays and themes. Oddly, most of my selections are traditional hymns, even though I generally prefer modern praise choruses.

ADVENT: Advent starts off the liturgical year and consists of 4 Sundays, ending with Christmas Sunday. Advent traditionally takes a thematic journey consecutively from despair to hope, from darkness to light, from doubt to faith, and from sorrow to joy.

1. The first Sunday of Advent can thus be called Hope Sunday. In my mind 2 traditional songs are most ideal:

"Whispering Hope"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BCA7B59720E5F907AFC0BCA7B59720E5F9&FORM=VIRE

"I Know Who Holds Tomorrow"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4DC97148E1CBFD8231244DC97148E1CBFD8&FORM=VIRE

2. The Best Carols:
I can't argue with mnoorian's choice, "O Holy Night," but the best carol for children is probably "The Virgin Mary Had a Baby Boy," with its Caribbean beat:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...B4F7D48D23CA1B9F608CB4F7D48D23CA1B9&FORM=VIRE

One of the often overlooked carols I adore is "There's a Song in the Air:"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=THERE'S+A+SONG+IN+THE+AIR+YOUTUBE&view=detail&mid=AEF352BCA3F324F4072BAEF352BCA3F324F4072B&FORM=VIRE

THE 7 SUNDAYS OF LENT:
3. The first Sunday should focus on the theme of temptation and trials.
The ideal hymn for this Sunday is:

"We'll Understand It Better By and By"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=YOUTUBE+WE'LL+UNDERSTAND+IT+BETTER+BY+AND+BY&view=detail&mid=0DF22DF3FABBA054061A0DF22DF3FABBA054061A&FORM=VIRE

4. The next 4 Sundays of Lent should focus on conversion, spiritual transformation, and new life. 2 ideal hymns for these Sundays are:

"Victory in Jesus"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...FFDCE5EBA500ACBC6829FFDCE5EBA500ACB&FORM=VIRE

"Because He Lives:"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...B90D476D8DAD4DD3316FB90D476D8DAD4DD&FORM=VIRE

5. My favorite hymn for Palm/ Passion Sunday is:
"Are You Able, Said the Master"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...CB899488FC574135B9EECB899488FC57413&FORM=VIRE

6. For me, Easter Sunday is a failure if we don't sing:
"Christ the Lord is Risen Today" and "He Arose" {"Up from the Grave He Arose").

7. For Mother's Day, my favorite song is "Precious Memories." Patty Lovelace sings it beautifully, but omits the most spiritual verses:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BFEEE00A840A2BF57EB0BFEEE00A840A2B&FORM=VIRE

8. On Pentecost Sunday, my favorite song is a contemporary praise chorus:
"Holy Spirit, Rain Down."

9. For Patriotic Sundays--Memorial weekend and the 4th of July weekend, my favorite patriotic hymn is:
"Eternal Father, Strong to Save" (the Navy Hymn)
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...A614F1E0714E5C9E3597A614F1E0714E5C9&FORM=VIRE
"

10. For All Saints Sunday, one hymn is a must: "For All the Saints:"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...5566640E0D622DC717EE5566640E0D622DC&FORM=VIRE

Every All Saints Sunday, after this hymn is sung, someone slowly reads the names of deceased loved ones by prior request. A gong is struck after each name is read. The people just love this ritual as a way of honoring their parted loved ones.

11. Baptism: My favorite baptismal hymn is: "I Was There to Hear Your Borning Cry"

12. Communion Sundays:
My favorite Communion hymns is:
"Here I Am, Lord"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...A3CD2694518E267AECA3A3CD2694518E267&FORM=VIRE

My favorite Communion praise chorus is: "Breathe."
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...F96CF516E4C376F9C62AF96CF516E4C376F&FORM=VIRE

13. My favorite prayer chorus to put us in the mood for silent prayer is the brief but lovely "You are My Hiding Place."
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...39848CB36F4D591C8C9539848CB36F4D591&FORM=VIRE


:

 

[Deadworm]

The younger generation can't tolerate that obsolete lyrics of traditional hymns. I'm not just referring to archaic words like "Thee," "Thou," "art (for "are"), "shouldst," "canst," "dost," but also to lyrics that seem clumsy to the modern ear like these 4 examples from popular traditional hymns:

(1) "Be Thou My Vision (vs. 1):
"Naught be all else to me,
Save that Thou art."

(2) "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name (vs. 3):
"Sinners, whose love can ne'er forget
the wormwood and the gall,"

(3) "And Can It Be That I Should Gain" (vs. 2):
"For me who Him to death pursued."

(4) "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" (vs. 2):
"Here I raise my Ebenezer;"

 

[WolfGate]

The younger generation can't tolerate that obsolete lyrics of traditional hymns. I'm not just referring to archaic words like "Thee," "Thou," "art (for "are"), "shouldst," "canst," "dost," but also to lyrics that seem clumsy to the modern ear like these 4 examples from popular traditional hymns:

(1) "Be Thou My Vision (vs. 1):
"Naught be all else to me,
Save that Thou art."

(2) "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name (vs. 3):
"Sinners, whose love can ne'er forget
the wormwood and the gall,"

(3) "And Can It Be That I Should Gain" (vs. 2):
"For me who Him to death pursued."

(4) "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" (vs. 2):
"Here I raise my Ebenezer;"

LOL. Just showed these to my 15 year old son. He just shook his head and walked away.

 

[Dave-W]

LOL. Just showed these to my 15 year old son. He just shook his head and walked away.

I think if I had been shown those lyrics 50 years ago, my 11year old self would have reacted the same way.

 

[WolfGate]

Our new senior pastor arrives this week. It will be quite interesting as I can already tell that those who have a difference preference for worship music that what we do now see it as an opportunity for change and those who prefer our current music know that and are ready to defend. Me, I'm just a mid-50s former elder chairman and worship singer who has been known to wear a Skillet t-shirt to church. LOL! I hear it all from all sides.

 

[mnorian]

Darlene Zschech - Agnus Dei (Change Your World)

 

[Deadworm]

As I said, my late Dad was a television Gospel singer. He just hated contemporary praise choruses and much preferred slow, majestic traditional hymns. Precisely for that reason, I am amazed at a childhood memory of Dad's male quartet singing "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." Here is the Oak Ridge Boys' rendition of that sedate number (LOL):

https://www.bing.com/search?q=yourt...s=n&sk=&cvid=a0f5aa3967cf42689417c915d213c927

And I can't resist posting this rendition of a decades older version of the Oak Ridge Boys singing: "Jesus Is Coming Soon:"

https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtu...=&ghc=1&cvid=135f9923c2b34f0ca015803e017c55e1

 

[Dave-W]

Here is the Oak Ridge Boys' rendition of that sedate number (LOL):

Ah Yes.. Richard Sturbin singing bass. I did warm up exercises with him once. He was with the Stamps at that point and scared to death of JD Sumner. (Sturbin was JD's fill in while he was recovering from throat surgery)

 

[musicalpilgrim]

In my last UMC church, I started a 2nd contemporary service that is quickly outgrowing the more traditional service with blended worship--blended instead of traditional because my musicians can't tolerate a service with hymns only! Someone defined "blended worship" as "a service with something that makes everyone unhappy!"

This is such a wonderful thought 'blended worship' I love it....(mmmm planning my funeral)? I like this one..
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...50ECFBCEAFFCB397E64550ECFBCEAFFCB3&FORM=VIRE1

 

[Propianotuner]

I still cringe at many modern praise choruses with their repetitive and shallow lyrics, but now consider the best of them to be superior to hymns.

Each age has it's own contributions to the worship experience. I have also cringed at these elements in praise choruses, but the response I see from Christians around me is still profound and I am bound by my conscience to recognize that they also worship God.

What probably irks me most about praise choruses is that they have little utility in regularly internalizing scripture, and so many of the grand theological concepts that simply can't be reduced to "seven eleven music" (i.e. seven words eleven times). An integral part of my musical worship experience is taking God's Word and making it more a part of me through repeated association with it. This has been the practice amongst God's beloved since the Psalms and probably even before then.

But it's okay, because what's important during a worship service is going to church to see and participate in the God experience. I can see people who really love God and want to express it, and that gives me contentment.

In my last UMC church, I started a 2nd contemporary service that is quickly outgrowing the more traditional service with blended worship--blended instead of traditional because my musicians can't tolerate a service with hymns only! Someone defined "blended worship" as "a service with something that makes everyone unhappy!"

Hmmm... my own preferences would likely have made everyone in your church unhappy as well, and the whole time to boot! It is because from my perspective the music you were more into is also pretty modern. This is some of the music with which I like to spend time with God:

Straightway when I begin to hear the Sanctus seen here below at 14:20, and on through the Benedictus right after it, chills run down my spine and in my soul I can for a time, if I'm receptive enough that day, experience inexplicable pleasures and revel in the kind of solace that comes only from God. It is something I'm not always privileged with, and oftentimes I await it with bated breath.

 

[mnorian]

What probably irks me most about praise choruses is that they have little utility in regularly internalizing scripture, and so many of the grand theological concepts that simply can't be reduced to "seven eleven music" (i.e. seven words eleven times). An integral part of my musical worship experience is taking God's Word and making it more a part of me through repeated association with it. This has been the practice amongst God's beloved since the Psalms and probably even before then.

Hello Ppt; this is what I look for in Praise & Worship, and hymns; songs that use the Word of the Lord as the Psalms did (the Israelite's song book) and one of the better ones was the "Maranatha! Double Praise albums" from the 70s,--90s which there were 20 or more albums (I have 8 of them) and all of them used the Word as the basis for their lyrics:

 

[musicalpilgrim]

That is soooo beautiful! It reminds me of my MA course,

Hmmm... my own preferences would likely have made everyone in your church unhappy as well, and the whole time to boot! It is because from my perspective the music you were more into is also pretty modern. This is some of the music with which I like to spend time with God:



Straightway when I begin to hear the Sanctus seen here below at 14:20, and on through the Benedictus right after it, chills run down my spine and in my soul I can for a time, if I'm receptive enough that day, experience inexplicable pleasures and revel in the kind of solace that comes only from God. It is something I'm not always privileged with, and oftentimes I await it with bated breath.