Hello Bob.
I ignore the following passage because Jesus is addressing the Jews and not the Gentiles.
Do you also ignore Matt 28?? because they too are all Jews?
16
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped
Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20
teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
The "ignore the teaching of Jesus" solution is not as solid a foundation as you might at first expect.
Notice that Matthew is writing the Gospel account - in direct fulfillment - so then a lot of Christians listen to the teaching of Jesus -- as opposed to ignoring it.
Let's assume for argument's sake that Jesus is addressing you here Bob, so now we read.
Matthew 19
18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor
as yourself.” 20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him,
“If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;
and come, follow Me.”
It shows me that Jesus thinks the TEN commandments matter. - And that salvation it self is tossed out the window if one decides to be at war with God's Word.
Notice that we see the same thing when it comes to "worship" and war against God's TEN Commandments in Mark 7:6-13.
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
Did you notice the rich young man's question in the passage above Bob?
The rich young man asked, 'which ones', i.e., which are the critical commandments to obey. Jesus did not include the Sabbath
Nor did He include "Do not take God's name in vain".
Nor did He include "Have no other gods before Me"
Nor did He include "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
Clearly Jesus was not "deleting those commandments" by his Matt 19 statement - as we can all see clearly. (Hence page 1 of this thread it is the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars that admit to this obvious pro-Ten Commandments teaching in the Bible)
This point is irrefutable. War against God's Ten commandments does not survive that text.
10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God ; Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of GodMark 7:6-13
NT ScriptureJames 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10
Hello Bob.
There are issues with your reply Bob, your claiming that Gentile Christians are under the ten commandments.
Because the Bible says it... Christ says it... Paul says it.... John says it... even your own pro-Sunday scholarship says it.
Were we simply "not supposed to notice??
Fact one Bob, Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles.
1. Fact one - "God sent His son to be the savior of the WORLD" 1 John 4:14 -- not "just gentiles"
"God so Loved the World" John 3:16... not "just gentiles".
2. Fact two - Jesus welcomed gentiles - "We would see Jesus" - was the gentile request - and it was granted by the "savior of the WORLD".
3. "Jesus is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
Romans 3
28 Therefore we conclude that
a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one
God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Matthew 15
I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Your failing to realise the significance of what Jesus is telling you here,
On the contrary you are taking such a tiny narrow view of his teaching - so that you can reject it all - that you miss the actual content in the Bible.
In Acts 10 Peter declares a "made-up-rule" of the pharisees about jews not associating with gentiles. Making stuff up is never approved of by God.
How do you explain what
Jesus said Bob, I am interested to see how you deal with this. The context of Matthew's Gospel has been announced
and for some reason you are ignoring the context.
In Matt 15 Jesus deals with that same 'made up rule'.
Matt 15
21 Then
Jesus went thence, and
departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
In that case Jesus is taking his ministry TO The GENTILES in Tyre and Sidon
22 And, behold
, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying,
Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
The Acts 10 Matt 16 pharises-model is that Jesus should not minister to the gentiles - because he is only sent to Jews. In this example - Jesus is mocking the pharisee-make-stuff-up-model.
23 But
he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying,
Send her away; for she crieth after us.
The lost sheep that Israel was to have evangelized under the pre-cross system - was "The whole world"
Matt 15
24 But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then
came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her,
O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Great is your Faith -- is a blessing Christ says primarily of gentiles - not Jews.
Yet the "other gospel" is that we should ignore His teaching as if "gentiles need not apply"???
Notice that in this example Jesus does the very thing that the pharisee-gospel rejected. He ministered to the gentile who was making petition after first walking all that way - just to meet her need.
Hello Bob.
Jesus clearly said “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her,
O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Great is your Faith -- is a blessing Christ says primarily of gentiles - not Jews.
Yet the "other gospel" is that we should ignore His teaching as if "gentiles need not apply"???
Notice that in this example Jesus does the very thing that the pharisee-gospel rejected. He ministered to the gentile who was making petition
after first walking all that way - just to meet her need.
Ignoring that Bible detail leads you to -
Your contradicting what Jesus stated above Bob,
Your argument that "God did not so Love the WORLD that He gave His Son" is rejected in the text. Rather the very birth of Christ --is the result of "God so Loved the WORLD" and not "god so loved just-the-Jews before the cross".
What is more God declares His love for the alien - to Israel in Deut 10:12-22.
And in this example from
John 12
20
Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast.
21 Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “
Sir, we wish to see Jesus.”
22 Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus.
Jesus Predicts His Death on the Cross
23 But
Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26
If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.
27 “Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.”
Then a voice came from heaven,
saying, “I have both glorified
it and will glorify
it again.”
I repeat, Jesus was sent by God as the "
Savior of the WORLD" 1 John 4:14.
Jesus repeats this in John 6 - that He gives is life
for 'the WORLD'
And the Matt 15 statement is said to a gentile that Jesus goes out of his way to meet, to minister to, and to declare that the had "great faith".
The lost sheep of Israel - includes all the lost world that Israel had been sent to evangelize in that "nation church model" that existed before the cross.
It is alright to include the Gentiles in the Gospel at a later stage, which Paul does so eloquently.
Romans 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them.
This is the proof that Paul recognised that Jesus was sent for the Jews only. The Gentile are grafted
in, the Gentiles are added at a later stage, the Gentiles never actually belonged,
Again - contradicted in the book of Jonah where Jonah argues for the destruction of Nineveh and God argues for sparing the gentiles.
the Gentiles were not a
branch of the original olive tree. The Gentiles are the wild olive branches, the Gentiles were uncultivated,
meaning of course that the Gentiles were without the law. The Gentiles were the filthy dogs, the Jews avoided
your error was shown in Acts 10 where Peter argues that it was "unlawful for a Jew" to associate with a gentile -- and yet clearly no such text exists at all in the OT.
So now - gentile evangelism in the OT.
in Christ,
Bob
